Niners hire Kris Kocurek as DL coach

Originally posted by FL9er:
I wouldn't offer that dude anything more than a 1 yr deal, and that might be pushing it.

yeah something with us saving some cash if he gets hurt again would be good.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

So listening to a podcast with Barrows and he said the old DL coach ( I can't remember his name or spelling) wasn't a huge fan of Thomas, hence him not getting snaps inside until Kyle put his foot down. Earl Mitchell was his boy lol gross.

He also stated they might change defensive philosophies a little more geared to stopping the pass (duh) compared to priority #1, which was defending the run.

So this was all accommodated just for Solomon. How wonderful

Wonder what they will say if he still doesn't produce in Year 3

who?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

So listening to a podcast with Barrows and he said the old DL coach ( I can't remember his name or spelling) wasn't a huge fan of Thomas, hence him not getting snaps inside until Kyle put his foot down. Earl Mitchell was his boy lol gross.

He also stated they might change defensive philosophies a little more geared to stopping the pass (duh) compared to priority #1, which was defending the run.

Why would the position coach dictate playing time...

Originally posted by NYniner85:

So listening to a podcast with Barrows and he said the old DL coach ( I can't remember his name or spelling) wasn't a huge fan of Thomas, hence him not getting snaps inside until Kyle put his foot down. Earl Mitchell was his boy lol gross.

He also stated they might change defensive philosophies a little more geared to stopping the pass (duh) compared to priority #1, which was defending the run.

Thank God!

But what a trainwreck. #3 overall pick is allowed to be dictated by a position coach? Something doesn't seem to be adding up here. The DC should be owning everything, top to bottom including philosophy...ESPECIALLY philosophy.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So listening to a podcast with Barrows and he said the old DL coach ( I can't remember his name or spelling) wasn't a huge fan of Thomas, hence him not getting snaps inside until Kyle put his foot down. Earl Mitchell was his boy lol gross.

He also stated they might change defensive philosophies a little more geared to stopping the pass (duh) compared to priority #1, which was defending the run.

Why would the position coach dictate playing time...

Because the position coaches are managing the rotations during the game. In game Saleh might give input if he wants something that's not happening and between games Shanahan might give input if he wants something that's not happening, but it's the position coach who is solely focused on the D-line and most typically managing the rotation.

I understand that Saleh is ultimately responsible for the defense but I am sensing that he is not getting the benefit of a doubt from some. In the end if he is incompetent then he will be canned. But, to not think that his lieutenants don't have certain responsibility doesn't make sense either.

Originally posted by Niner4ever:

I understand that Saleh is ultimately responsible for the defense but I am sensing that he is not getting the benefit of a doubt from some. In the end if he is incompetent then he will be canned. But, to not think that his lieutenants don't have certain responsibility doesn't make sense either.

It seems like he was mostly influenced by the Jags where they did have big personnel up front like us and after O'Neil, no doubt run defense was front and center. From listening to his interviews he does seem more married towards run defense so this Woods move might be a strong way to shift that philosophy towards defending a passing league now esp. since they've devoted 10 draft picks+ to the secondary.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So listening to a podcast with Barrows and he said the old DL coach ( I can't remember his name or spelling) wasn't a huge fan of Thomas, hence him not getting snaps inside until Kyle put his foot down. Earl Mitchell was his boy lol gross.

He also stated they might change defensive philosophies a little more geared to stopping the pass (duh) compared to priority #1, which was defending the run.

Why would the position coach dictate playing time...

Because the position coaches are managing the rotations during the game. In game Saleh might give input if he wants something that's not happening and between games Shanahan might give input if he wants something that's not happening, but it's the position coach who is solely focused on the D-line and most typically managing the rotation.

In-game rotations sure, but after the game, no, after the drive, if there is a problem with who is on the field in certain situations (Mitchell playing nickel DT instead of Solly), then it's Saleh's responsibility to notice and make that change. He needs to pull Zgonina to the side and give a direct order, "stop playing Mitchel in nickel, play Solly".
Done, problem solved.

This is the tweet that got me into this conversation (posted by Phoenix on page 12):

[Barrows] Zgonina was not a big fan of Thomas, which may explain Thomas' sporadic snap numbers at the beginning of the season and start to explain why Zgonina is no longer on the payroll.

Why was this problem (Mitchell playing over Solly) occurring for more than one game? During film review, Saleh can see that Zgon is playing Mitchell too much and make that change in time for the next drive, in the worst case next Sunday. I don't like what Barrows said because it blames Zgon for Solly not getting enough snaps. The responsibility falls on Saleh to tell Zgon if there are any changes that need to happen with the DL rotation.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niner4ever:
I understand that Saleh is ultimately responsible for the defense but I am sensing that he is not getting the benefit of a doubt from some. In the end if he is incompetent then he will be canned. But, to not think that his lieutenants don't have certain responsibility doesn't make sense either.

It seems like he was mostly influenced by the Jags where they did have big personnel up front like us and after O'Neil, no doubt run defense was front and center. From listening to hours interviews he does seem more married towards run defense so this Woods move might be a strong way to shift that philosophy towards defending a passing league now esp. since they've devoted 10 draft picks+ to the secondary.

Yeah a philosophical shift is greatly needed. The strength of the defense is on the interior defensive line. Usually those are responsible for run stoppage. Since that is an area of strength it's now time to devout more attention to the pass defense. Good things coming to the defense in my opinion.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
So this was all accommodated just for Solomon. How wonderful

Wonder what they will say if he still doesn't produce in Year 3

no, I think it was simply based on Kocurek being a better DL coach. Gotta remember Kyle didn't get to pick his staff until after the SB. Barrows just pointed out they're looking at the D a little different. Thomas was a damn good edge defender even though he would create more pressure as a pass rusher from the interior. Z was about stopping the run game even though in today's game passing is how it's done. He also said this was the first yr in NFL history where teams actually passed the ball more on 1st down than ran it.

Also worth saying that sometimes coaches just miss things sometimes too, and once they're missed it's hard to come back.

The 9ers have a TON of resources invested in Solomon Thomas, and Zgonia not believing in him could totally result in Zgonia needing to move on.

And Zgonia could be right and he could be wrong.

Back when I used to coach O-Line (no big deal, just JV high school level) I had a guard who never got any run with me, and I just didn't see it in him at all. Because of his size and because they had a hole in the roster they brought him up to Var the next year and by the end of that year he was anchoring the line on a ranked team that sent five or six people to D1 schools.

We had all been coaching together for long enough and I had been right enough times for people to not think I was an idiot, but coaches would ask me all the time what the heck happened and why he'd never gotten any run. And all I could say was "man, I don't know. I just really didn't see it." Everyone who has coached for any amount of time has had that happen to them before.

Of course I don't believe that some schmuck coaching high school ball is equivalent to a professional NFL coach, but the point is this stuff *does* happen.
Position coaches hold more sway than some people realize, and they're right sometimes, but wrong sometimes too. Getting Zgonia out of there and Kocurek in there could do nothing for Thomas, but it could do a lot too.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Why would the position coach dictate playing time...

Barrows said the position coaches play a huge part in dictating snap counts

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Why would the position coach dictate playing time...

Barrows said the position coaches play a huge part in dictating snap counts

99 was just referring to what I've posted in the previous page. At least that's what I think from the "..."
99, NY, others, do you think that a DC has final say on which players get on the field? Or is that responsibility solely left up to the position coach, and the DC needs to stay in his lane and just call plays?

Originally posted by thl408:
In-game rotations sure, but after the game, no, after the drive, if there is a problem with who is on the field in certain situations (Mitchell playing nickel DT instead of Solly), then it's Saleh's responsibility to notice and make that change. He needs to pull Zgonina to the side and give a direct order, "stop playing Mitchel in nickel, play Solly".
Done, problem solved.

This is the tweet that got me into this conversation (posted by Phoenix on page 12):

[Barrows] Zgonina was not a big fan of Thomas, which may explain Thomas' sporadic snap numbers at the beginning of the season and start to explain why Zgonina is no longer on the payroll.

Why was this problem (Mitchell playing over Solly) occurring for more than one game? During film review, Saleh can see that Zgon is playing Mitchell too much and make that change in time for the next drive, in the worst case next Sunday. I don't like what Barrows said because it blames Zgon for Solly not getting enough snaps. The responsibility falls on Saleh to tell Zgon if there are any changes that need to happen with the DL rotation.

I feel like it might have come from Kyle or even Lynch (with pushing solly inside more)...kyle kinda put his foot down. I do agree Saleh needs to take more control, see what the problems are, and correct them.