Niners hire Kris Kocurek as DL coach

He has his work cut out.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by Monsterniner:
I didn´t say it was easy.

We have Verrett who is very good in man coverage and Bosa who is a great edge-rusher. Theoretically we are halfway of my goal.

What the hell, I´d trade Warner for a 1st round pick to draft an edge-rusher and I´d sign DeAndre Baker from the Chiefs´ PS.

I know, I know, I´d get killed if I trade Warner only 1 year after they traded Buckner but to me having a great edge-rusher or/and a man coverage CB is more important than having a great LB nowadays because as I said, if we can play man coverage we´d be able to stop the run because of that man coverage.

In a vacuum edge is obviously more valuable than a MLB but that's crazy talk to move the best covering LB in the league for a SHOT at an edge rusher in a fairly weak class.

To a certain extent, I agree. Between a great MLB and an edge rusher-- I go with an elite edge rusher and MLB by committee. One MLB for a passing offense and one MLB for a running defense. The Walsh super bowl wins and the first Seifert Super Bowl, I really can't recall any hall of fame linebackers. But I do remember hall of fame DBs and Edge rushers.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by Monsterniner:
I didn´t say it was easy.

We have Verrett who is very good in man coverage and Bosa who is a great edge-rusher. Theoretically we are halfway of my goal.

What the hell, I´d trade Warner for a 1st round pick to draft an edge-rusher and I´d sign DeAndre Baker from the Chiefs´ PS.

I know, I know, I´d get killed if I trade Warner only 1 year after they traded Buckner but to me having a great edge-rusher or/and a man coverage CB is more important than having a great LB nowadays because as I said, if we can play man coverage we´d be able to stop the run because of that man coverage.

In a vacuum edge is obviously more valuable than a MLB but that's crazy talk to move the best covering LB in the league for a SHOT at an edge rusher in a fairly weak class.

To a certain extent, I agree. Between a great MLB and an edge rusher-- I go with an elite edge rusher and MLB by committee. One MLB for a passing offense and one MLB for a running defense. The Walsh super bowl wins and the first Seifert Super Bowl, I really can't recall any hall of fame linebackers. But I do remember hall of fame DBs and Edge rushers.

New era nfl dominant defenses have almost always had a great Lb though. Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Bobby Wagner, Patrick Willis, Luke Kuekly…. Fred Warner. The recent Denver teams might be the only one that didn't and that's because Von Miller was such a freak.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
He has his work cut out.

I think they are in better shape than you are alluding to. Bosa is the key of course, and apprehension of his return to form is a concern for sure. But they are deep on the DL. Kocurek is the X factor. It isn't a coincidence that Hyder had his two best years under his coaching. I think he is the most important position coach on the team.

ido.i like Fred because he is a great coverage backer. I don't look for him to eat blocks in the hole or pop Jerome Bettie running backs. Not pat w.

I'm starting to lose faith in the wide 9 and questioning whether it's even worth keeping around moving forward. The run defense is horrific and most of it stems from the wide 9's inherent weakness up the middle.

Everyone on this DL stinks besides Nick Bosa, who transcends scheme and can shine in any front. Right now, we're getting all the pitfalls of the wide 9 without many of the pass-rushing benefits. It might be time to reconsider if it's worth keeping it moving forward.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I'm starting to lose faith in the wide 9 and questioning whether it's even worth keeping around moving forward. The run defense is horrific and most of it stems from the wide 9's inherent weakness up the middle.

Everyone on this DL stinks besides Nick Bosa, who transcends scheme and can shine in any front. Right now, we're getting all the pitfalls of the wide 9 without many of the pass-rushing benefits. It might be time to reconsider if it's worth keeping it moving forward.

Totally agree, our interior run defense is the worst I've seen in a long time for a 49er roster.

Another guy who has been massively overrated by the fanbase.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Monsterniner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Proof DC's need to stop focusing on this as a primary in a passing league.

2018 - Front 7 gave up 1,800 yards rushing (bad)
2019 - Front 7 gave up 1,800 yards rushing (bad)
2020 - Front 7 will give up 1,700 yards (not great)

The #49ers are one of 3 teams (ATL, LAR) that haven't allowed an opposing running back to rush for 100 yards in a single game.

— Akash Anavarathan (@akashanav) December 31, 2020

...and it didn't mean a thing.

Focus on the pass rush and defending the pass. Kocurek's doing it right. Saleh did it right evolving the coverage looks.

I´ve been saying that defenses need 2 great edge-rushers and 2 great man-coverage CB´s.

If a defense can get those 4 great players it will be able to run cover 1 most of the time and because of that it will be able to stop the run because that defense always will have more players in the box than blockers in the run game.

2-WR sets = 2 CB´s playing man and the FS helping them = 8 men in the box against 7 blockers in the run game.
3-WR sets = 3 CB´s playing man and the FS helping them = 7 men in the box against 6 blockers in the run game.

Also with 2 great edge-rushers that defense will put pressure on the QB in less than 3 seconds and playing man coverage means that the QB will need more than 3 seconds to find an open receiver.

Totally agree.

Totally and absolutelyyy NOOOOOOOO!!!!

WE. CAN'T. TACKLE. FOR. SH^T.

NOTHING. MAKES. UP. FOR.THAT.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I'm starting to lose faith in the wide 9 and questioning whether it's even worth keeping around moving forward. The run defense is horrific and most of it stems from the wide 9's inherent weakness up the middle.

Everyone on this DL stinks besides Nick Bosa, who transcends scheme and can shine in any front. Right now, we're getting all the pitfalls of the wide 9 without many of the pass-rushing benefits. It might be time to reconsider if it's worth keeping it moving forward.

Wow, we just posted nearly the same post on different threads. No wonder why you pushed me here. I guess we agree on what we're watching. Cheers!

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Monsterniner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Proof DC's need to stop focusing on this as a primary in a passing league.

2018 - Front 7 gave up 1,800 yards rushing (bad)
2019 - Front 7 gave up 1,800 yards rushing (bad)
2020 - Front 7 will give up 1,700 yards (not great)

The #49ers are one of 3 teams (ATL, LAR) that haven't allowed an opposing running back to rush for 100 yards in a single game.

— Akash Anavarathan (@akashanav) December 31, 2020

...and it didn't mean a thing.

Focus on the pass rush and defending the pass. Kocurek's doing it right. Saleh did it right evolving the coverage looks.

I´ve been saying that defenses need 2 great edge-rushers and 2 great man-coverage CB´s.

If a defense can get those 4 great players it will be able to run cover 1 most of the time and because of that it will be able to stop the run because that defense always will have more players in the box than blockers in the run game.

2-WR sets = 2 CB´s playing man and the FS helping them = 8 men in the box against 7 blockers in the run game.
3-WR sets = 3 CB´s playing man and the FS helping them = 7 men in the box against 6 blockers in the run game.

Also with 2 great edge-rushers that defense will put pressure on the QB in less than 3 seconds and playing man coverage means that the QB will need more than 3 seconds to find an open receiver.

Totally agree.

There isn't really any team in the league that has 4 "great" players at the two most expensive positions on defense. If you can have one great pass rusher, one good pass rusher and two good corners you have the makings of a fantastic defense. problem is even if you have what you ask for, and have a QB, you no longer have money for weapons or an o-line.

defense needs to have no holes, even more important than having studs.

our #2 end is also our best interior lineman, our #2 corner (good) is doing ok but the other corners are just getting abused. safeties were a disaster (how anyone can see yesterday's game and think that ward and tartt provide no value is inane).

and then on top of it, we cannot stop the run, or stop checkdowns (extension of the run).

To have a great defense you have to have no GLARING HOLES and at least 2 difference makers. we have the difference makers, our issue is the holes.

Originally posted by Koldo:
Another guy who has been massively overrated by the fanbase.

KK was hired to run the "all gas, no brakes" scheme of Saleh. That works as long as you have solid interior guys who just plug things up. The problem is that at some point you need a Jim Tomsula who froths at the mouth, farts at the mike, and bludgeons anyone standing in front of him. Teaching players how to be gritty in the trenches is as much an art form as flipping a DE game.

I mentioned it in another thread but Mike Vrabel brings that kind of quality to his team. They aren't always pretty but they will kick your butt with no apologies.

Originally posted by dj43:
KK was hired to run the "all gas, no brakes" scheme of Saleh. That works as long as you have solid interior guys who just plug things up. The problem is that at some point you need a Jim Tomsula who froths at the mouth, farts at the mike, and bludgeons anyone standing in front of him. Teaching players how to be gritty in the trenches is as much an art form as flipping a DE game.

I mentioned it in another thread but Mike Vrabel brings that kind of quality to his team. They aren't always pretty but they will kick your butt with no apologies.

Vrabel would never run a wide 9

Originally posted by spizzy:
Vrabel would never run a wide 9

Almost every team runs a variation of wide 9 in pressure packages, and technically, those stand-up edge players on Vrabel's front are playing wide 9 techs.

The real issue is in base and in-between packages. The only teams that runs a base wide 9 in the NFL is the 49ers and last I looked, the Jets. Saleh must have liked it because he took it with him to NY.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I'm starting to lose faith in the wide 9 and questioning whether it's even worth keeping around moving forward. The run defense is horrific and most of it stems from the wide 9's inherent weakness up the middle.

Everyone on this DL stinks besides Nick Bosa, who transcends scheme and can shine in any front. Right now, we're getting all the pitfalls of the wide 9 without many of the pass-rushing benefits. It might be time to reconsider if it's worth keeping it moving forward.

I think with the right personnel, the wide9 scheme can still be effective in this day and age. It's true they do need a certain type of DT to cover up the deficiency in run defense up the middle, but that's why the team spent a top pick on Kinlaw. They got the personnel right in 2019, but without a bookend to compliment Bosa, and a run stuffer at 3t, it can fall apart. I actually like that being base wide9 makes the SF defense unique compared to the rest of the NFL.

If wide9 is something DeMeco Ryans doesn't truly believe in, then get away from it. I don't know if wide9 is something Ryans simply inherited and didn't want to overhaul the defense, or if he truly wanted to keep it, and that's why they still use it.