Deebo Samuel-WR-South Carolina

Originally posted by 49ers808:
He won't be playing week 1 either way. Don't think the coaches will let him

He's young - let him play.

Originally posted by JimmyWhy:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by JimmyWhy:

Originally posted by dj43:

I hope he meets his prediction, however, I've known a couple of athletes who have had that same injury. They thought they were fully healed but when they went at game speed, it popped again.

Stay on the safe side.

Yea, I agree. From watching that video, I don't know if I think he's particularly close to returning. Week 1 seems overly optimistic and the team should be cautious with him.

What are you talking about - he's already cutting at 5 weeks. Another 5 weeks and he'll be ready for the opener. I totally disagree with your assessment.

Without shoes on, not at speed, and on a cushioned surface. Do you really think he's just a few weeks away from being able to run full speed in cleats for hours? Maybe, but I'm not optimistic and I don't think the team would risk him unless they were certain he was ready.

Agree. I'd rather the medical staff be safe than sorry. We need him badly if we are in the playoffs.

Originally posted by dj43:

I hope he meets his prediction, however, I've known a couple of athletes who have had that same injury. They thought they were fully healed but when they went at game speed, it popped again.

Stay on the safe side.

Totally. Be safe.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by JimmyWhy:

Originally posted by dj43:
I hope he meets his prediction, however, I've known a couple of athletes who have had that same injury. They thought they were fully healed but when they went at game speed, it popped again.

Stay on the safe side.

Yea, I agree. From watching that video, I don't know if I think he's particularly close to returning. Week 1 seems overly optimistic and the team should be cautious with him.

What are you talking about - he's already cutting at 5 weeks. Another 5 weeks and he'll be ready for the opener. I totally disagree with your assessment.

Lol! You think so?
Just because he stomps his foot doesn't mean he's cutting. Don't fool yourself. He's a long way off. Very tentative and flat-footed. As well he should be.
If that foot pops again, just put a fork in it. He aught to cool his jets a bit and not try to prove how tough he is. Allow the bone to knit properly and strong. Other wise there's the danger of it becoming a chronic condition.

I have a bad feeling about this, He's like a thoroughbred; just wanting to go. They shoot those horses. So in my mind, I've moved on. If I turn out to be wrong, it'll be a bonanza!
I'm very excited to see Aiyuk play. I think that he's going to be special and will take up the mantle. Loved him before the draft and was really happy that the Niners drafted him. Now . . . if Hurd plays with awareness, Taylor surviving in the slot. The receiving corps has the potential to be special. Especially with the TE's and the coach the team has calling the plays.

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Lol! You think so?
Just because he stomps his foot doesn't mean he's cutting. Don't fool yourself. He's a long way off. Very tentative and flat-footed. As well he should be.
If that foot pops again, just put a fork in it. He aught to cool his jets a bit and not try to prove how tough he is. Allow the bone to knit properly and strong. Other wise there's the danger of it becoming a chronic condition.

I have a bad feeling about this, He's like a thoroughbred; just wanting to go. They shoot those horses. So in my mind, I've moved on. If I turn out to be wrong, it'll be a bonanza!
I'm very excited to see Aiyuk play. I think that he's going to be special and will take up the mantle. Loved him before the draft and was really happy that the Niners drafted him. Now . . . if Hurd plays with awareness, Taylor surviving in the slot. The receiving corps has the potential to be special. Especially with the TE's and the coach the team has calling the plays.

You make a fair point, I'd just note that rehab video is from the team facility so it's most likely he's following a program set by the team's rehab/physio specialists.

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Lol! You think so?
Just because he stomps his foot doesn't mean he's cutting. Don't fool yourself. He's a long way off. Very tentative and flat-footed. As well he should be.
If that foot pops again, just put a fork in it. He aught to cool his jets a bit and not try to prove how tough he is. Allow the bone to knit properly and strong. Other wise there's the danger of it becoming a chronic condition.

I have a bad feeling about this, He's like a thoroughbred; just wanting to go. They shoot those horses. So in my mind, I've moved on.

Moved on? what do you mean? Deebo's career is over lol?

Like Buchy said he's rehabbing at the team facility and is doing what the doctors on staff are telling him to do.

We talked about the rehab of this injury and how greatly the outcomes is after 10 weeks (there's an article in here)... So whatever that timeline is IMO would be the route to go. If he misses the 1st 2 games so be it.

I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks is still too soon - if he's good to go let him play.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks still too soon - let him play.

Just looking at the numbers...

Jones fractures are no joke...they say 6-8 weeks, but over 10 weeks is ideal for a full recovery and the likelihood of having future complications is diminished drastically.

Here's a article on optimal time to return from a Jones fracture....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2325967117S00224

Objectives: While rare, Jones fractures represent an acute and devastating injury to National Football League (NFL) players. Although Jones fractures in the general population have been researched extensively, not much is known about the epidemiology and post-injury effects of these fractures on the professional football athlete. Furthermore, early season injuries to high-profile NFL players have led to an increased pressure to return to play more quickly. It is unknown how this accelerated timeline to recovery affects post-injury performance and postsurgical complications necessitating repeat surgeries. Therefore, the objectives of our study were to produce an updated epidemiology of Jones fractures and analyze how quicker recovery times affect post-injury performance and refracture rates in NFL players.

Methods: Several online sources including a compiled injury database provided by FantasyData, NFL news sites and injury reports, and player registries, were cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining a Jones fracture injury necessitating surgery from the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. For each injury, time to recovery and return to play was obtained, and players were separated into two groups: those returning to play in less than 10 weeks from surgery and those returning greater than 10 weeks after surgery. Each included player was followed to identify future events requiring repeated surgery for the same injury. Yearly player performance metrics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and defensive players. An "approximate value" algorithm, commonly used to standardize and track player production across positions, was adapted to calculate yearly performance values for each injured player up to 3 years before and after each Jones fracture surgery, allowing each player to serve as his own control.
Results: 42 Jones fractures were identified during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 15 players returned to the field in 10 weeks or less after surgery, with 9 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. 27 players returned to the field greater than 10 weeks after surgery, with 4 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. Compared to all other positions, wide receivers were the most likely to suffer from a Jones fracture. There was an average decrease in performance by 53.2% in those players returning in 10 weeks or less after their first Jones fracture surgery, compared to a 9.4% increase in performance in those players returning after at least 10 weeks from their first Jones fracture surgery. After a second Jones fracture surgery, there was an average decrease in performance by 46.3% and 16.5% in those returning in less than or greater than 10 weeks respectively.

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that a quickened timeline to recovery after Jones fracture injuries to NFL players can lead to poorer outcomes. There was a statistically significant greater decrease in post-injury performance for NFL players returning to play in less than 10 weeks after Jones fracture surgery as compared to those players returning in greater than 10 weeks. Those players returning in less than 10 weeks after surgery were also more likely to require a second jones fracture surgery. This suggests that although players are frequently pressured to return to play as quickly as possible after these injuries, it may be more advantageous in terms of postinjury performance and career longevity to extend the timeline for recovery.

Now I'm sure surgery/treatment/PT have improved over the past 5 yrs, but I see no reason to bring him back sooner than 10 weeks given the data

If my math is right, it should be around 12 weeks from week 1,no? Maybe he doesn't play week 1, but I'm all for making 100% sure his long-term health is in order...I don't care about a game or two.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks still too soon - let him play.

Just looking at the numbers...

Jones fractures are no joke...they say 6-8 weeks, but over 10 weeks is ideal for a full recovery and the likelihood of having future complications is diminished drastically.

Here's a article on optimal time to return from a Jones fracture....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2325967117S00224

Objectives: While rare, Jones fractures represent an acute and devastating injury to National Football League (NFL) players. Although Jones fractures in the general population have been researched extensively, not much is known about the epidemiology and post-injury effects of these fractures on the professional football athlete. Furthermore, early season injuries to high-profile NFL players have led to an increased pressure to return to play more quickly. It is unknown how this accelerated timeline to recovery affects post-injury performance and postsurgical complications necessitating repeat surgeries. Therefore, the objectives of our study were to produce an updated epidemiology of Jones fractures and analyze how quicker recovery times affect post-injury performance and refracture rates in NFL players.

Methods: Several online sources including a compiled injury database provided by FantasyData, NFL news sites and injury reports, and player registries, were cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining a Jones fracture injury necessitating surgery from the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. For each injury, time to recovery and return to play was obtained, and players were separated into two groups: those returning to play in less than 10 weeks from surgery and those returning greater than 10 weeks after surgery. Each included player was followed to identify future events requiring repeated surgery for the same injury. Yearly player performance metrics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and defensive players. An "approximate value" algorithm, commonly used to standardize and track player production across positions, was adapted to calculate yearly performance values for each injured player up to 3 years before and after each Jones fracture surgery, allowing each player to serve as his own control.
Results: 42 Jones fractures were identified during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 15 players returned to the field in 10 weeks or less after surgery, with 9 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. 27 players returned to the field greater than 10 weeks after surgery, with 4 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. Compared to all other positions, wide receivers were the most likely to suffer from a Jones fracture. There was an average decrease in performance by 53.2% in those players returning in 10 weeks or less after their first Jones fracture surgery, compared to a 9.4% increase in performance in those players returning after at least 10 weeks from their first Jones fracture surgery. After a second Jones fracture surgery, there was an average decrease in performance by 46.3% and 16.5% in those returning in less than or greater than 10 weeks respectively.

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that a quickened timeline to recovery after Jones fracture injuries to NFL players can lead to poorer outcomes. There was a statistically significant greater decrease in post-injury performance for NFL players returning to play in less than 10 weeks after Jones fracture surgery as compared to those players returning in greater than 10 weeks. Those players returning in less than 10 weeks after surgery were also more likely to require a second jones fracture surgery. This suggests that although players are frequently pressured to return to play as quickly as possible after these injuries, it may be more advantageous in terms of postinjury performance and career longevity to extend the timeline for recovery.

Now I'm sure surgery/treatment/PT have improved over the past 5 yrs, but I see no reason to bring him back sooner than 10 weeks given the data

If my math is right, it should be around 12 weeks from week 1,no? Maybe he doesn't play week 1, but I'm all for making 100% sure his long-term health is in order...I don't care about a game or two.

Yeah, your math sounds about right - holding him back a game or two sounds reasonable. He should be more than ready then.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Yeah, your math sounds right - holding him back a game or two sound reasonable. He should be more than ready then.

Yeah I just don't want any setbacks...if that means no game play for a week or two so be it. I think we can beat AZ/NY Jets by just running the snot out of the ball the first two weeks anyway

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
He won't be playing week 1 either way. Don't think the coaches will let him

He's young - let him play.

Agreed. Let him play.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Yeah, your math sounds right - holding him back a game or two sound reasonable. He should be more than ready then.

Yeah I just don't want any setbacks...if that means no game play for a week or two so be it. I think we can beat AZ/NY Jets by just running the snot out of the ball the first two weeks anyway

Deebo is a massive weapon, our #1 WR. Should be protected for sure but we all know that any loss in the NFL with only 16 games in a season is meaningful. AZ seem much improved so I think without our #1 WR, we stand a chance of losing that one. I would think we can beat both NY teams after that. So I think we could end up 2-1 after the first 3 weeks which would be acceptable. I'm not saying its a loss for sure to AZ but it will be a tough game.

Originally posted by Happs:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Yeah, your math sounds right - holding him back a game or two sound reasonable. He should be more than ready then.

Yeah I just don't want any setbacks...if that means no game play for a week or two so be it. I think we can beat AZ/NY Jets by just running the snot out of the ball the first two weeks anyway

Deebo is a massive weapon, our #1 WR. Should be protected for sure but we all know that any loss in the NFL with only 16 games in a season is meaningful. AZ seem much improved so I think without our #1 WR, we stand a chance of losing that one. I would think we can beat both NY teams after that. So I think we could end up 2-1 after the first 3 weeks which would be acceptable. I'm not saying its a loss for sure to AZ but it will be a tough game.

We're a much better team than the Cardinals. But without Deebo the game will be much closer, closer than it needs to be. And they are a divisional opponent, so the possibility of a loss is pretty good. If Deebo is ready to play I say play him. No player is fully healthy. Players that are fully healthy are retired. No need to take a loss when we don't need to. This isn't the NBA or MLB. There's only 16 games. Every game counts. There are no throw away games. A single loss, to a divisional opponent no less, can be the difference between being out of the playoffs or being the number one seed. The margin for error is just too thin to keep Deebo out if he can go.

With no preseason, let Deebo sit and see what we got with Aiyuk, Pettis and Hurd.

Originally posted by mayo49:

I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks is still too soon - if he's good to go let him play.

This