Deebo Samuel-WR-South Carolina

Players who are half injured become a risk and a liability on the field.
Matt Breida was reinjuring every week
Joe Staley against the Seahawks should've never played
Mike Person and Kwon Alexander were more liabilities than assets in the SuperBowl

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
With no preseason, let Deebo sit and see what we got with Aiyuk, Pettis and Hurd.

Fu_king amazing, people still counting on Pettis to contribute

Originally posted by Happs:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Yeah, your math sounds right - holding him back a game or two sound reasonable. He should be more than ready then.

Yeah I just don't want any setbacks...if that means no game play for a week or two so be it. I think we can beat AZ/NY Jets by just running the snot out of the ball the first two weeks anyway

Deebo is a massive weapon, our #1 WR. Should be protected for sure but we all know that any loss in the NFL with only 16 games in a season is meaningful. AZ seem much improved so I think without our #1 WR, we stand a chance of losing that one. I would think we can beat both NY teams after that. So I think we could end up 2-1 after the first 3 weeks which would be acceptable. I'm not saying its a loss for sure to AZ but it will be a tough game.

Meh about beginning losses. It's how you *finish* the season, not how you start it. YOu can go 13-2 and be one and done, or go 10-6 and get a Lombardi. It all depends on how you *finish* -- not how you start. We need a 100% Deebo heading into the playoffs and have a chance at that Lombardi.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Players who are half injured become a risk and a liability on the field.
Matt Breida was reinjuring every week
Joe Staley against the Seahawks should've never played
Mike Person and Kwon Alexander were more liabilities than assets in the SuperBowl

so let him get 100% healthy then...Studies show that after 10 weeks of treatment/recovery from a Jones fracture the likelihood of a setback decreases drastically.

Come week one it will be around 12 weeks since his surgery. I'm fine giving him a week or two on top of the 12 weeks.

FWIW Staley dislocated/broke a couple fingers in the Seattle game. He didn't re-injure his broken leg or anything.

That barefoot, stutter step drill he's doing is a very good sign.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Fu_king amazing, people still counting on Pettis to contribute

I'd like to see if 2019 was just a sophomore slump or that's who he really is. Pettis looks more serious this year in camp.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Fu_king amazing, people still counting on Pettis to contribute

I'd like to see if 2019 was just a sophomore slump or that's who he really is. Pettis looks more serious this year in camp.

Source please.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks still too soon - let him play.

Just looking at the numbers...

Jones fractures are no joke...they say 6-8 weeks, but over 10 weeks is ideal for a full recovery and the likelihood of having future complications is diminished drastically.

Here's a article on optimal time to return from a Jones fracture....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2325967117S00224

Objectives: While rare, Jones fractures represent an acute and devastating injury to National Football League (NFL) players. Although Jones fractures in the general population have been researched extensively, not much is known about the epidemiology and post-injury effects of these fractures on the professional football athlete. Furthermore, early season injuries to high-profile NFL players have led to an increased pressure to return to play more quickly. It is unknown how this accelerated timeline to recovery affects post-injury performance and postsurgical complications necessitating repeat surgeries. Therefore, the objectives of our study were to produce an updated epidemiology of Jones fractures and analyze how quicker recovery times affect post-injury performance and refracture rates in NFL players.

Methods: Several online sources including a compiled injury database provided by FantasyData, NFL news sites and injury reports, and player registries, were cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining a Jones fracture injury necessitating surgery from the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. For each injury, time to recovery and return to play was obtained, and players were separated into two groups: those returning to play in less than 10 weeks from surgery and those returning greater than 10 weeks after surgery. Each included player was followed to identify future events requiring repeated surgery for the same injury. Yearly player performance metrics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and defensive players. An "approximate value" algorithm, commonly used to standardize and track player production across positions, was adapted to calculate yearly performance values for each injured player up to 3 years before and after each Jones fracture surgery, allowing each player to serve as his own control.
Results: 42 Jones fractures were identified during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 15 players returned to the field in 10 weeks or less after surgery, with 9 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. 27 players returned to the field greater than 10 weeks after surgery, with 4 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. Compared to all other positions, wide receivers were the most likely to suffer from a Jones fracture. There was an average decrease in performance by 53.2% in those players returning in 10 weeks or less after their first Jones fracture surgery, compared to a 9.4% increase in performance in those players returning after at least 10 weeks from their first Jones fracture surgery. After a second Jones fracture surgery, there was an average decrease in performance by 46.3% and 16.5% in those returning in less than or greater than 10 weeks respectively.

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that a quickened timeline to recovery after Jones fracture injuries to NFL players can lead to poorer outcomes. There was a statistically significant greater decrease in post-injury performance for NFL players returning to play in less than 10 weeks after Jones fracture surgery as compared to those players returning in greater than 10 weeks. Those players returning in less than 10 weeks after surgery were also more likely to require a second jones fracture surgery. This suggests that although players are frequently pressured to return to play as quickly as possible after these injuries, it may be more advantageous in terms of postinjury performance and career longevity to extend the timeline for recovery.

Now I'm sure surgery/treatment/PT have improved over the past 5 yrs, but I see no reason to bring him back sooner than 10 weeks given the data

If my math is right, it should be around 12 weeks from week 1,no? Maybe he doesn't play week 1, but I'm all for making 100% sure his long-term health is in order...I don't care about a game or two.

This article reflects my experience with soccer players I knew.

The problem is; that area of the foot does not receive as much blood supply as other areas. It is at the end of the hose, so to speak. Other areas have drained off the blood flow. As a result, an X-ray can look like the bone is fully healed, however, the reality is that it has not yet gained full strength throughout the fractured area. Think of the X-ray as a shadow that only shows the surface, not the interior.

An extra two weeks is cheap insurance for a strong performance at the end of the season.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks still too soon - let him play.

Just looking at the numbers...

Jones fractures are no joke...they say 6-8 weeks, but over 10 weeks is ideal for a full recovery and the likelihood of having future complications is diminished drastically.

Here's a article on optimal time to return from a Jones fracture....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2325967117S00224

Objectives: While rare, Jones fractures represent an acute and devastating injury to National Football League (NFL) players. Although Jones fractures in the general population have been researched extensively, not much is known about the epidemiology and post-injury effects of these fractures on the professional football athlete. Furthermore, early season injuries to high-profile NFL players have led to an increased pressure to return to play more quickly. It is unknown how this accelerated timeline to recovery affects post-injury performance and postsurgical complications necessitating repeat surgeries. Therefore, the objectives of our study were to produce an updated epidemiology of Jones fractures and analyze how quicker recovery times affect post-injury performance and refracture rates in NFL players.

Methods: Several online sources including a compiled injury database provided by FantasyData, NFL news sites and injury reports, and player registries, were cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining a Jones fracture injury necessitating surgery from the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. For each injury, time to recovery and return to play was obtained, and players were separated into two groups: those returning to play in less than 10 weeks from surgery and those returning greater than 10 weeks after surgery. Each included player was followed to identify future events requiring repeated surgery for the same injury. Yearly player performance metrics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and defensive players. An "approximate value" algorithm, commonly used to standardize and track player production across positions, was adapted to calculate yearly performance values for each injured player up to 3 years before and after each Jones fracture surgery, allowing each player to serve as his own control.
Results: 42 Jones fractures were identified during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 15 players returned to the field in 10 weeks or less after surgery, with 9 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. 27 players returned to the field greater than 10 weeks after surgery, with 4 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. Compared to all other positions, wide receivers were the most likely to suffer from a Jones fracture. There was an average decrease in performance by 53.2% in those players returning in 10 weeks or less after their first Jones fracture surgery, compared to a 9.4% increase in performance in those players returning after at least 10 weeks from their first Jones fracture surgery. After a second Jones fracture surgery, there was an average decrease in performance by 46.3% and 16.5% in those returning in less than or greater than 10 weeks respectively.

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that a quickened timeline to recovery after Jones fracture injuries to NFL players can lead to poorer outcomes. There was a statistically significant greater decrease in post-injury performance for NFL players returning to play in less than 10 weeks after Jones fracture surgery as compared to those players returning in greater than 10 weeks. Those players returning in less than 10 weeks after surgery were also more likely to require a second jones fracture surgery. This suggests that although players are frequently pressured to return to play as quickly as possible after these injuries, it may be more advantageous in terms of postinjury performance and career longevity to extend the timeline for recovery.

Now I'm sure surgery/treatment/PT have improved over the past 5 yrs, but I see no reason to bring him back sooner than 10 weeks given the data

If my math is right, it should be around 12 weeks from week 1,no? Maybe he doesn't play week 1, but I'm all for making 100% sure his long-term health is in order...I don't care about a game or two.

This article reflects my experience with soccer players I knew.

The problem is; that area of the foot does not receive as much blood supply as other areas. It is at the end of the hose, so to speak. Other areas have drained off the blood flow. As a result, an X-ray can look like the bone is fully healed, however, the reality is that it has not yet gained full strength throughout the fractured area. Think of the X-ray as a shadow that only shows the surface, not the interior.

An extra two weeks is cheap insurance for a strong performance at the end of the season.

Yup! You're absolutely correct. Don't Crabtree and Ward both have Jones fractures as well? What about PRP or stem cell injections?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks still too soon - let him play.

Just looking at the numbers...

Jones fractures are no joke...they say 6-8 weeks, but over 10 weeks is ideal for a full recovery and the likelihood of having future complications is diminished drastically.

Here's a article on optimal time to return from a Jones fracture....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2325967117S00224

Objectives: While rare, Jones fractures represent an acute and devastating injury to National Football League (NFL) players. Although Jones fractures in the general population have been researched extensively, not much is known about the epidemiology and post-injury effects of these fractures on the professional football athlete. Furthermore, early season injuries to high-profile NFL players have led to an increased pressure to return to play more quickly. It is unknown how this accelerated timeline to recovery affects post-injury performance and postsurgical complications necessitating repeat surgeries. Therefore, the objectives of our study were to produce an updated epidemiology of Jones fractures and analyze how quicker recovery times affect post-injury performance and refracture rates in NFL players.

Methods: Several online sources including a compiled injury database provided by FantasyData, NFL news sites and injury reports, and player registries, were cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining a Jones fracture injury necessitating surgery from the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. For each injury, time to recovery and return to play was obtained, and players were separated into two groups: those returning to play in less than 10 weeks from surgery and those returning greater than 10 weeks after surgery. Each included player was followed to identify future events requiring repeated surgery for the same injury. Yearly player performance metrics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and defensive players. An "approximate value" algorithm, commonly used to standardize and track player production across positions, was adapted to calculate yearly performance values for each injured player up to 3 years before and after each Jones fracture surgery, allowing each player to serve as his own control.
Results: 42 Jones fractures were identified during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 15 players returned to the field in 10 weeks or less after surgery, with 9 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. 27 players returned to the field greater than 10 weeks after surgery, with 4 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. Compared to all other positions, wide receivers were the most likely to suffer from a Jones fracture. There was an average decrease in performance by 53.2% in those players returning in 10 weeks or less after their first Jones fracture surgery, compared to a 9.4% increase in performance in those players returning after at least 10 weeks from their first Jones fracture surgery. After a second Jones fracture surgery, there was an average decrease in performance by 46.3% and 16.5% in those returning in less than or greater than 10 weeks respectively.

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that a quickened timeline to recovery after Jones fracture injuries to NFL players can lead to poorer outcomes. There was a statistically significant greater decrease in post-injury performance for NFL players returning to play in less than 10 weeks after Jones fracture surgery as compared to those players returning in greater than 10 weeks. Those players returning in less than 10 weeks after surgery were also more likely to require a second jones fracture surgery. This suggests that although players are frequently pressured to return to play as quickly as possible after these injuries, it may be more advantageous in terms of postinjury performance and career longevity to extend the timeline for recovery.

Now I'm sure surgery/treatment/PT have improved over the past 5 yrs, but I see no reason to bring him back sooner than 10 weeks given the data

If my math is right, it should be around 12 weeks from week 1,no? Maybe he doesn't play week 1, but I'm all for making 100% sure his long-term health is in order...I don't care about a game or two.

This article reflects my experience with soccer players I knew.

The problem is; that area of the foot does not receive as much blood supply as other areas. It is at the end of the hose, so to speak. Other areas have drained off the blood flow. As a result, an X-ray can look like the bone is fully healed, however, the reality is that it has not yet gained full strength throughout the fractured area. Think of the X-ray as a shadow that only shows the surface, not the interior.

An extra two weeks is cheap insurance for a strong performance at the end of the season.

Yup! You're absolutely correct. Don't Crabtree and Ward both have Jones fractures as well? What about PRP or stem cell injections?

I don't recall specifics on players, although a Jones, is not uncommon. Research indicates that Jones fractures can have a higher incidence of refracture than other types of fracture.

There are various treatment options to increase circulation and speed healing.

This article describes why a Jones fracture is problematic and cannot be seen the same as other fractures such as a forearm or tibia/shin bone. https://kerlanjobe.org/understanding-the-jones-fracture/

"A Jones fracture is more complicated to treat because the blood supply to that portion of the bone is referred to as a "watershed" area. This zone of the metatarsal has reduced blood supply than the remainder of the bone. This fact is significant because reduced blood flow can increase healing time from injury. An analogy I use to describe the blood supply in a "watershed" area, is the portion of a lawn between two sprinklers. On this area of the lawn, the grass doesn't grow as well as the other areas because it isn't directly under a healthy supply of water – it falls in between. Likewise, if a section of bone falls in between, decreased blood supply may compromise bone healing by not providing the necessary building blocks and nutrients."

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I don't know what the problem is playing in the opener if he's cleared to play by then. He's ahead of schedule and biting at the bit to play. Some of you sound like holding him back one or two extra weeks still too soon - let him play.

Just looking at the numbers...

Jones fractures are no joke...they say 6-8 weeks, but over 10 weeks is ideal for a full recovery and the likelihood of having future complications is diminished drastically.

Here's a article on optimal time to return from a Jones fracture....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2325967117S00224

Objectives: While rare, Jones fractures represent an acute and devastating injury to National Football League (NFL) players. Although Jones fractures in the general population have been researched extensively, not much is known about the epidemiology and post-injury effects of these fractures on the professional football athlete. Furthermore, early season injuries to high-profile NFL players have led to an increased pressure to return to play more quickly. It is unknown how this accelerated timeline to recovery affects post-injury performance and postsurgical complications necessitating repeat surgeries. Therefore, the objectives of our study were to produce an updated epidemiology of Jones fractures and analyze how quicker recovery times affect post-injury performance and refracture rates in NFL players.

Methods: Several online sources including a compiled injury database provided by FantasyData, NFL news sites and injury reports, and player registries, were cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining a Jones fracture injury necessitating surgery from the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. For each injury, time to recovery and return to play was obtained, and players were separated into two groups: those returning to play in less than 10 weeks from surgery and those returning greater than 10 weeks after surgery. Each included player was followed to identify future events requiring repeated surgery for the same injury. Yearly player performance metrics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and defensive players. An "approximate value" algorithm, commonly used to standardize and track player production across positions, was adapted to calculate yearly performance values for each injured player up to 3 years before and after each Jones fracture surgery, allowing each player to serve as his own control.
Results: 42 Jones fractures were identified during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 15 players returned to the field in 10 weeks or less after surgery, with 9 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. 27 players returned to the field greater than 10 weeks after surgery, with 4 requiring a second Jones fracture surgery. Compared to all other positions, wide receivers were the most likely to suffer from a Jones fracture. There was an average decrease in performance by 53.2% in those players returning in 10 weeks or less after their first Jones fracture surgery, compared to a 9.4% increase in performance in those players returning after at least 10 weeks from their first Jones fracture surgery. After a second Jones fracture surgery, there was an average decrease in performance by 46.3% and 16.5% in those returning in less than or greater than 10 weeks respectively.

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that a quickened timeline to recovery after Jones fracture injuries to NFL players can lead to poorer outcomes. There was a statistically significant greater decrease in post-injury performance for NFL players returning to play in less than 10 weeks after Jones fracture surgery as compared to those players returning in greater than 10 weeks. Those players returning in less than 10 weeks after surgery were also more likely to require a second jones fracture surgery. This suggests that although players are frequently pressured to return to play as quickly as possible after these injuries, it may be more advantageous in terms of postinjury performance and career longevity to extend the timeline for recovery.

Now I'm sure surgery/treatment/PT have improved over the past 5 yrs, but I see no reason to bring him back sooner than 10 weeks given the data

If my math is right, it should be around 12 weeks from week 1,no? Maybe he doesn't play week 1, but I'm all for making 100% sure his long-term health is in order...I don't care about a game or two.

This article reflects my experience with soccer players I knew.

The problem is; that area of the foot does not receive as much blood supply as other areas. It is at the end of the hose, so to speak. Other areas have drained off the blood flow. As a result, an X-ray can look like the bone is fully healed, however, the reality is that it has not yet gained full strength throughout the fractured area. Think of the X-ray as a shadow that only shows the surface, not the interior.

An extra two weeks is cheap insurance for a strong performance at the end of the season.

Yup! You're absolutely correct. Don't Crabtree and Ward both have Jones fractures as well? What about PRP or stem cell injections?

No, Crabtree had an Achilles.

Originally posted by dj43:
I don't recall specifics on players, although a Jones, is not uncommon. Research indicates that Jones fractures can have a higher incidence of refracture than other types of fracture.

There are various treatment options to increase circulation and speed healing.

This article describes why a Jones fracture is problematic and cannot be seen the same as other fractures such as a forearm or tibia/shin bone. https://kerlanjobe.org/understanding-the-jones-fracture/

"A Jones fracture is more complicated to treat because the blood supply to that portion of the bone is referred to as a "watershed" area. This zone of the metatarsal has reduced blood supply than the remainder of the bone. This fact is significant because reduced blood flow can increase healing time from injury. An analogy I use to describe the blood supply in a "watershed" area, is the portion of a lawn between two sprinklers. On this area of the lawn, the grass doesn't grow as well as the other areas because it isn't directly under a healthy supply of water – it falls in between. Likewise, if a section of bone falls in between, decreased blood supply may compromise bone healing by not providing the necessary building blocks and nutrients."

I actually read that article when I was doing a little research on a Jones fracture . I feel like PRP and stem-cell injections should helps somewhat though? pure speculation though.

Yeah all kinds of NFL/NBA players have had a Jones....A couple players that come to mind real quick are Dez, Julio, Edelman, Kevin Durant etc...some surgery again.

After reading that other article, specifically about NFL players, and correlation of giving a player more than 10 weeks to recover = less likely to have a post-injury recurrence...IMO it would be silly not to do that with Deebo.

Originally posted by mayo49:
No, Crabtree had an Achilles.

Right , he also had a Jones fracture at the end of his college career and couldn't do anything at the combine. I think that spilled into TC as well?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

No, Crabtree had an Achilles.

Right , he also had a Jones fracture at the end of his college career and couldn't do anything at the combine. I think that spilled into TC as well?

Crabtree held out until week 7 of his rookie year

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
No, Crabtree had an Achilles.

Right , he also had a Jones fracture at the end of his college career and couldn't do anything at the combine. I think that spilled into TC as well?

Your right - I forgot about that.