Mitch Wishnowsky - Punter (Utah) is a 49er

I only fault them for not trading down a little further into the later 4th rd if possible

Originally posted by irief:
Not sure why you say trolling when plenty of posters agree he wasn't a good pick for in the 4th. He ranked 24th in gross punt average and 22 in pinning within 20 yd line according to off. These are abysmal numbers for an almost 30year old punter taken in the 4th rd. We're not talking about a 20 year old mid season walk on.
Not to mention he only had 49 touchbacks on kickoffs, which also illustrates his weak leg, and this is painfully obvious from watching games. He struggled as a holder on field goals also. Gould's struggles were in part due to Mitch from watching the games, although tough to see this in metrics alone.

Just making reasonable observations.

Btw, I didn't see u give any warnings when I was called names (c*nt) earlier.

I should leave and move on from the posting like you have been making but I can't help observe that maybe you are Michael Dickson from the Seachooks and also from "Crapstralia". Such an obsession for such a minor position player.

4th round pick, 30 year old, touchbacks, pff rating, holding struggles are and have been reasonably asserted in the opposite direction to your thinking.

How did Michael Dickson go last season? Or more importantly did he get to the pointy end of the season with his genius and superior 3rd season punting?

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by irief:

Not sure why you say trolling when plenty of posters agree he wasn't a good pick for in the 4th. He ranked 24th in gross punt average and 22 in pinning within 20 yd line according to off. These are abysmal numbers for an almost 30year old punter taken in the 4th rd. We're not talking about a 20 year old mid season walk on.
Not to mention he only had 49 touchbacks on kickoffs, which also illustrates his weak leg, and this is painfully obvious from watching games. He struggled as a holder on field goals also. Gould's struggles were in part due to Mitch from watching the games, although tough to see this in metrics alone.

Just making reasonable observations.

Btw, I didn't see u give any warnings when I was called names (c*nt) earlier.

I should leave and move on from the posting like you have been making but I can't help observe that maybe you are Michael Dickson from the Seachooks and also from "Crapstralia". Such an obsession for such a minor position player.

4th round pick, 30 year old, touchbacks, pff rating, holding struggles are and have been reasonably asserted in the opposite direction to your thinking.

How did Michael Dickson go last season? Or more importantly did he get to the pointy end of the season with his genius and superior 3rd season punting?

Hmm. dicko was in 2nd season.

Looking on espn stats page, mitch is 25 on average return yards at, wait for it...
5.7 yds per attempted return.
With season total yards returned of a massive 131yds. Also note that a many of those with lower return yds didn't play full season.

In20 is only useful if it is reasonable that the gunners will get there to stop it come roaring back out again. Out kicking the coverage is probably the biggest sin a punter could make, and going by the 5.7yds ave ret, mitch has helped protect the scoreboard by ensuring coverage can get to the returner, either forcing fair catch or minimal return.

That he can improve goes without saying, but such vitriol used towards him because of his drafting (something he had no control or say over), or being derogatory towards his country of origin (also mine, Rabbits and a few others in this place) is totally uncalled for.

Punting numbers are easy to cherry pick to tell a story, but a lot of the stats in isolation are totally meaningless if being used in determining effectiveness of the player.

Originally posted by irief:

Not to mention he only had 49 touchbacks on kickoffs, which also illustrates his weak leg, and this is painfully obvious from watching games.

How do you correlate your observation with the 49ers benefiting from their top 5 placing on opponents average starting field position?

I find it difficult to relate your findings with what statistics and observations tell us.

Originally posted by Who-is-Hayne:
Hmm. dicko was in 2nd season.

Looking on espn stats page, mitch is 25 on average return yards at, wait for it...
5.7 yds per attempted return.
With season total yards returned of a massive 131yds. Also note that a many of those with lower return yds didn't play full season.

In20 is only useful if it is reasonable that the gunners will get there to stop it come roaring back out again. Out kicking the coverage is probably the biggest sin a punter could make, and going by the 5.7yds ave ret, mitch has helped protect the scoreboard by ensuring coverage can get to the returner, either forcing fair catch or minimal return.

That he can improve goes without saying, but such vitriol used towards him because of his drafting (something he had no control or say over), or being derogatory towards his country of origin (also mine, Rabbits and a few others in this place) is totally uncalled for.

Punting numbers are easy to cherry pick to tell a story, but a lot of the stats in isolation are totally meaningless if being used in determining effectiveness of the player.

Thanks mate. I overthought Dicksons history since I had been talking him up for over 3 years.

This poster has an obvious grudge and probably lost a job due to the influx of Aussie punters.

Aussie Josh Green will be touted as the fastest punter (40yard dash 4.37sec) in American football as he just got transferred from Laney College in Oakland to top tier Fresno looks up to Mitch Wishnowsky and Michael Dickson and wants to meet Mitch.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/news/josh-green-fastest-punter-in-football-is-australian-laney-college-on-netflix-last-chance-u/64338773-9c1d-4a9f-9c63-0ae6ca2e6dbe


"SKY'S THE LIMIT' AS GREEN EYES NFLGreen's goals going forward are to have a strong season at Fresno State and build on his skillset in the punting position. The Bulldogs have produced plenty of top NFL players in recent years, including Derek Carr, Davante Adams and KeeSean Johnson.

The Aussie looks up to fellow countrymen in the NFL, like Michael Dickson at the Seattle Seahawks and Mitch Wishnowsky, who is just over the bridge from Oakland with the San Francisco 49ers. One day, he says he wants to join them in the league.

"Those guys are pretty phenomenal," Green said.

"I'd love to hook up with Mitch. If he sees me or reads this, I'd love to meet up with him because he's an incredible athlete and done very well in the NFL.

"My absolute aspiration is to end up in the NFL. First step is to move up to that division one level and make my family proud, and make Australia proud. I want to be a good example to Australians if they want to come here and do what I did in community college.""

Originally posted by Dshearn:

How do you correlate your observation with the 49ers benefiting from their top 5 placing on opponents average starting field position?

I find it difficult to relate your findings with what statistics and observations tell us.

There are simple/fundamental questions his fan boys are refusing to answer.

Did his performance justify trading up in the 4th for a punter?

Do you actually believe he has any significant room for improvement at his relatively old age?

Remember, the dialogue around Solly would be totally different if he were a late round pick, but he wasn't. Expectations for a punter who was taken with a trade up in the fourth, are analogous to any other position taken in the top 5 of the first round.

Irief, i am not a fan boy....just an observer. And we have answered your unending attack on our punter who has helped the 49ers winning ways by keeping the opponents starting well back in their end of the field on O.

Did his performance justify trading up for a 4th? Well yeah, considering there were a number of reports of Bellichek snapping him up with his next pick before us. Also there was one other likely choice at #4, but we needed a really top flite punter. JL and KS went into draft with that in mind. We needed improvement there.

Can he improve at his "relatively old age" ? Improve at being near top of league punters in where opponents start their O deep in their end of the field?.. No matter whatever metric you use, the most important is where is the opponent starting his O. And there, Mitch is right where we want him to be...right at or near the top. How do you improve on the most important metric? You somehow don't understand that.

You have complained about everything Mitch. Yet you ignore the one thing that matters most...where does the opponent start from. Length of punts don't matter if the punt is returned well beyond where it was received. You will note Mitch's punts do not go past his ST tacklers. The ball arrives about the same time the STers do.

As for KOs, Mitch has plenty leg to kick it out of EZ every time. Yet you fail to grasp that the toughest KO is the one that comes down at Goal line or at 1 or 2 yd line., because those make the KO return man uncertain whether to return it or not. It brings in an issue of doubt on returners part. And if you go back and look at where his kicks land, it is around the 1 or 2 yd line. Into the EZ, the ball comes out to the 25. Mitch's KOs usually end up taken to the 20 or less. 'That is by Kyle Shannahan's design, not a weak leg.

As for improving punts, yes, that could happen if Kyle were to ask Mitch to kick a wobbler or a grubber. So far he has been asked to kick a wobbler once that I can recall. So any improvement would be dependent on what kyle wants. Right now he is plenty pleased his punter has opponents starting well back in their end of the field. The fact you don't see that or probably don't understand that, makes your comments ridiculous.

Since you just keep repeating your position, it is apparent you just want to incite....ie troll.

Originally posted by irief:

Not sure why you say trolling when plenty of posters agree he wasn't a good pick for in the 4th. He ranked 24th in gross punt average and 22 in pinning within 20 yd line according to off. These are abysmal numbers for an almost 30year old punter taken in the 4th rd. We're not talking about a 20 year old mid season walk on.
Not to mention he only had 49 touchbacks on kickoffs, which also illustrates his weak leg, and this is painfully obvious from watching games. He struggled as a holder on field goals also. Gould's struggles were in part due to Mitch from watching the games, although tough to see this in metrics alone.

Just making reasonable observations.

Btw, I didn't see u give any warnings when I was called names (c*nt) earlier.

Net average is a better measure of a punter than gross average but neither truly are a way to rank or evaluate punters. Both can be misleading statistics.

But FWIW though Wish tied for 12th in net average and did rank ahead of Dickson.

At the end of the day, he hasn't been a football player for all that long, he is still learning so age is meaningless in essence given he isn't 37. And still a rookie, and even rookie punters take time to adjust to the league (see Andy Lee for a prime example). He still can get better, that is something many here overlook. He also has a wide range of punts in his bag, but what we see is only what Hightower and Kyle will let him use. We saw a couple of punts in the playoffs where he reached into the bag and caused muffs.

As for the point on Gould, OTC had a great post where he broke down all the kicks gone wrong and 3 of his 8 misses were due to the snap or hold. And that was only an issue in the first half of the year.

Yeah, evil , the range of punts in the bag is a fascinating "to come" yet. I wanted to see those same punts that he was practicing end up in the game. But really, for a rook, that is asking a lot. Better to do it kyle's Way and wait til he really had his feet on the ground. I still go back to those trick punts on u tube and rewatch now and then, as they are going to be fun to watch when put to use.

I am fairly certain he used the wobbler one game when the ball came down like a duck missing one wing. Again, you have to wonder about the winds at Levi, and altho nothing like the Stick, they still affect the ball at times. But one punt came down so weird i had to watch the tape to see what it was doing. Wobbling would best describe it so i think i actually witnessed a "Wobbler".

And how on earth he gets that dang Grubber off while running horizontal to the LOS, is beyond believable. Crazy.

Oh ,and mr irief is taking a rest for awhile, so no more bellyaching about our punter...at least for 2 weeks.

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Irief, you are just making negative statements about a player and not backing it up with any facts. We call that trolling and that is what posters get set down for. You got facts, then it isn't trolling. But you are just making making negative comments with no facts. Any more of that and you will get set down...no more posting for awhile and a warning. Right now you are trolling. Any more and you will be done for awhile.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Irief, you are just making negative statements about a player and not backing it up with any facts. We call that trolling and that is what posters get set down for. You got facts, then it isn't trolling. But you are just making making negative comments with no facts. Any more of that and you will get set down...no more posting for awhile and a warning. Right now you are trolling. Any more and you will be done for awhile.

Not sure why you say trolling when plenty of posters agree he wasn't a good pick for in the 4th. He ranked 24th in gross punt average and 22 in pinning within 20 yd line according to off. These are abysmal numbers for an almost 30year old punter taken in the 4th rd. We're not talking about a 20 year old mid season walk on.
Not to mention he only had 49 touchbacks on kickoffs, which also illustrates his weak leg, and this is painfully obvious from watching games. He struggled as a holder on field goals also. Gould's struggles were in part due to Mitch from watching the games, although tough to see this in metrics alone.

Just making reasonable observations.

Btw, I didn't see u give any warnings when I was called names (c*nt) earlier.

Oh, I got my warning.

For the record, I said you were acting like one, not that you are one. That would imply some measure of depth and warmth.

And I stand by my statement.

That;s the French style, Griz, going back to Napolean's times. Then he had his infantry stick the bayonet in and THEN twist it before pulling it out.

Very clever next to last line. 4+/4+

Originally posted by irief:

There are simple/fundamental questions his fan boys are refusing to answer.

Did his performance justify trading up in the 4th for a punter?

Do you actually believe he has any significant room for improvement at his relatively old age?

Remember, the dialogue around Solly would be totally different if he were a late round pick, but he wasn't. Expectations for a punter who was taken with a trade up in the fourth, are analogous to any other position taken in the top 5 of the first round.

Didn't trade up for him. Traded down actually.

Didn't he OOF a kick in the super bowl? I forget.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Yeah, evil , the range of punts in the bag is a fascinating "to come" yet. I wanted to see those same punts that he was practicing end up in the game. But really, for a rook, that is asking a lot. Better to do it kyle's Way and wait til he really had his feet on the ground. I still go back to those trick punts on u tube and rewatch now and then, as they are going to be fun to watch when put to use.

I am fairly certain he used the wobbler one game when the ball came down like a duck missing one wing. Again, you have to wonder about the winds at Levi, and altho nothing like the Stick, they still affect the ball at times. But one punt came down so weird i had to watch the tape to see what it was doing. Wobbling would best describe it so i think i actually witnessed a "Wobbler".

And how on earth he gets that dang Grubber off while running horizontal to the LOS, is beyond believable. Crazy.

Oh ,and mr irief is taking a rest for awhile, so no more bellyaching about our punter...at least for 2 weeks.

Definitely a possibility that they kept it simple to let him adjust to punting in the NFL. We also had a lot of games where it made little to no sense to dive into the bag of tricks.

This was the punt VS Minny in January that resulted in the turnover. He also had another in that same game that caused another muffed catch.