Mitch Wishnowsky - Punter (Utah) is a 49er

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I didn't have a problem using a 4th round pick on a punter. The thing is, I expected someone like Ray Guy if they pick him that high. So far he's been okay but not great.

Define great

Jerry Rice. He was great.

Rice was the worst punter in NFL history

I defined it when I mentioned Ray Guy.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I didn't have a problem using a 4th round pick on a punter. The thing is, I expected someone like Ray Guy if they pick him that high. So far he's been okay but not great.

Define great

Jerry Rice. He was great.

Rice was the worst punter in NFL history

I defined it when I mentioned Ray Guy.

Oh i see

Ray Guy Avg 42.4
Wish avg 43.1

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Oh i see

Ray Guy Avg 42.4
Wish avg 43.1

I assume those are net averages. Guy played when punt returns were a little more common. Now teams have so much speed on the return team that they are often down the field waiting for the ball to come down. Guy was an all time great and punted for 14 years. Lets' see what Wishnowsky's average is after he's punted for a few years. Guy went to the pro bowl 7 of his first 8 years. He averaged over 45 yards in his rookie season. His average started dropping the last 5 years of his career but was still averaging about 40 yards. It wasn't just the distance but the height he got. He often out kicked the coverage which resulted in return yards and still averaged 42+ net. If Wish plays 14 seasons and averages 42 for his career then I guess the pick was worth it.

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Izyniner:

Dickson salary 2020. 822,000
Wish. 866,000
Lee. 2 million
Hekker. 4.6 million

Salaries don't compare much currently as Dickson and Wish are on rookie deals.

And how much do quality/pro bowl players cost at other positions? Better to have those positions on rookie deals.

You are assuming those 4th and or 5th round picks translate into quality or Pro Bowl players. Chances on hitting on solid depth players in those rounds in low, let alone a quality or pro bowl level player.

And there isn't plenty of quality punters available as UDFA. The quality prospects for punters are few and far between and almost always end up drafted because of that fact.

Bill Walsh and Bill Belichick each drafted 2 punters. But I guess those coaches didn't know what they were doing right?

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Izyniner:

Dickson salary 2020. 822,000
Wish. 866,000
Lee. 2 million
Hekker. 4.6 million

Salaries don't compare much currently as Dickson and Wish are on rookie deals.

And how much do quality/pro bowl players cost at other positions? Better to have those positions on rookie deals.

You are assuming those 4th and or 5th round picks translate into quality or Pro Bowl players. Chances on hitting on solid depth players in those rounds in low, let alone a quality or pro bowl level player.

And there isn't plenty of quality punters available as UDFA. The quality prospects for punters are few and far between and almost always end up drafted because of that fact.

Bill Walsh and Bill Belichick each drafted 2 punters. But I guess those coaches didn't know what they were doing right?

Bellicheck isn't exactly a draft guru. Both there greatness lies elsewhere. We could name tons of draft misses they each had. Your examples are anecdotal at best.

Punter is pretty low on the list of factors for winning. Other far more important positions to be considered first. I agree with always drafting qbs or cb, but not punter.

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

I didn't have a problem using a 4th round pick on a punter. The thing is, I expected someone like Ray Guy if they pick him that high. So far he's been okay but not great.

I think that's fair. I think they had plans to use him better but the team depth this year is an issue that drained special teams of talent to assist with downing the ball and return tackling. Last year was something that made the punting almost irrelevant. He also has not shown what is expected for that high a pick but that's not on him. He did not pick himself. And Hightower....please!

Finally starting to come around. Just keep unwrapping the Aussie flag from around you're body, and you see clearer and clearer.

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Izyniner:

Dickson salary 2020. 822,000
Wish. 866,000
Lee. 2 million
Hekker. 4.6 million

Salaries don't compare much currently as Dickson and Wish are on rookie deals.

And how much do quality/pro bowl players cost at other positions? Better to have those positions on rookie deals.

You are assuming those 4th and or 5th round picks translate into quality or Pro Bowl players. Chances on hitting on solid depth players in those rounds in low, let alone a quality or pro bowl level player.

And there isn't plenty of quality punters available as UDFA. The quality prospects for punters are few and far between and almost always end up drafted because of that fact.

Bill Walsh and Bill Belichick each drafted 2 punters. But I guess those coaches didn't know what they were doing right?

Bellicheck isn't exactly a draft guru. Both there greatness lies elsewhere. We could name tons of draft misses they each had. Your examples are anecdotal at best.

Punter is pretty low on the list of factors for winning. Other far more important positions to be considered first. I agree with always drafting qbs or cb, but not punter.

Draft guru is with regards to the prospects picked. But the philosophy behind picking a punter is to put your defense in the best position possible at all times, which is why both Bill's who are all time greats among coaches, valued punters and didn't shy away from drafting one.

Nobody is talking about always drafting a punter. But if you need one or could stand to upgrade and there is one you think has the potential to be a very good one, you can't be afraid to pull the trigger and improve that position.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by Izyniner:

Dickson salary 2020. 822,000
Wish. 866,000
Lee. 2 million
Hekker. 4.6 million

Salaries don't compare much currently as Dickson and Wish are on rookie deals.

And how much do quality/pro bowl players cost at other positions? Better to have those positions on rookie deals.

You are assuming those 4th and or 5th round picks translate into quality or Pro Bowl players. Chances on hitting on solid depth players in those rounds in low, let alone a quality or pro bowl level player.

And there isn't plenty of quality punters available as UDFA. The quality prospects for punters are few and far between and almost always end up drafted because of that fact.

Bill Walsh and Bill Belichick each drafted 2 punters. But I guess those coaches didn't know what they were doing right?

Bellicheck isn't exactly a draft guru. Both there greatness lies elsewhere. We could name tons of draft misses they each had. Your examples are anecdotal at best.

Punter is pretty low on the list of factors for winning. Other far more important positions to be considered first. I agree with always drafting qbs or cb, but not punter.

Draft guru is with regards to the prospects picked. But the philosophy behind picking a punter is to put your defense in the best position possible at all times, which is why both Bill's who are all time greats among coaches, valued punters and didn't shy away from drafting one.

Nobody is talking about always drafting a punter. But if you need one or could stand to upgrade and there is one you think has the potential to be a very good one, you can't be afraid to pull the trigger and improve that position.

Their greatness is more associated with hitting on GOAT QBs. First I've heard of punter in that conversation. Thats rich, lol.

Originally posted by irief:

Their greatness is more associated with hitting on GOAT QBs. First I've heard of punter in that conversation. Thats rich, lol.

Their greatness was also on a very good defense. I also didn't say their greatness was on a punter, that is putting words into my mouth.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by irief:

Their greatness is more associated with hitting on GOAT QBs. First I've heard of punter in that conversation. Thats rich, lol.

Their greatness was also on a very good defense. I also didn't say their greatness was on a punter, that is putting words into my mouth.

I agree, but this thread is all about punters/wish, so.....

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by irief:

Their greatness is more associated with hitting on GOAT QBs. First I've heard of punter in that conversation. Thats rich, lol.

Their greatness was also on a very good defense. I also didn't say their greatness was on a punter, that is putting words into my mouth.

I agree, but this thread is all about punters/wish, so.....

Agreed.

Bottom line is you have made claims that Wish is no Andy Lee to date and that Wish was the worst punter in the NFC West and both of those claims were proven wrong with facts.

Originally posted by evil:

Agreed.

Bottom line is you have made claims that Wish is no Andy Lee to date and that Wish was the worst punter in the NFC West and both of those claims were proven wrong with facts.

Sounds like you got some "alternative facts". Your numbers are deceiving, and your numbers on Lee contradict what I've seen. Either way, It's like saying Montana wasn't a goat because his stats weren't as great as some other qbs.
I don't think Wish is a terrible punter in general, just terrible 4th rd pick. Shanks a bit too much for my taste. He still can't carry Dicko/Hekker/Lee's jock. Maybe someday, but not today. Don't see him getting pro bowl nod over either of those guys.
Still don't understand relevance of Walsh/Belecheat reference.

Originally posted by evil:

Agreed.

Bottom line is you have made claims that Wish is no Andy Lee to date and that Wish was the worst punter in the NFC West and both of those claims were proven wrong with facts.

Also at least wait if he ever makes all pro before comparing him to Lee. Dude hasn't achieved anything yet.

Originally posted by irief:

Originally posted by evil:
Agreed.

Bottom line is you have made claims that Wish is no Andy Lee to date and that Wish was the worst punter in the NFC West and both of those claims were proven wrong with facts.

Also at least wait if he ever makes all pro before comparing him to Lee. Dude hasn't achieved anything yet.

His stats are better than Lee this year but that is an unfair comparison for his stage of career. But it does seem to me that he will have to be HOF to measure up for your satisfaction.
Evil is way too polite.

I get why punters are so unloved but there is something happening that the traditional fans are missing in my opinion.

Even though staple quality punters like Hekker and Lee have been around for a while, the very stat that is lauded is often not telling the true story.

Average punter length or even nett avg can be deceiving.

2019 Andy Lee Avg 47.8 ypp Nett 41.2 ypp Return avg 9ypr
2020 Avg 44.1 Nett 40.1 Return Avg 7ypr

2019 Hekker 47.4ypp Nett 42.4ypp Return 8.3 ypr
2020 Avg 46.6 Nett 39.6 Return Avg 19ypr

2019 Mitch 44.9 yyp Nett 41.6ypp Return 5.7 ypr
2020 Avg 47.9 Nett 43.3 Return Avg 5.8ypr

The other 2 seem to be out punting their coverage!