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Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Hoovtrain:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Hoovtrain:^ didn't realize Pinion was a good pick who was a good punter for the Niners, was really a 6th round pick, was a FA resign priority and the reason they netted Trenton Brown. Impressive.
See, you can teach a dog new tricks. You never stop learning.
Wishnowsky - the STW - Special Teams Weapon
I am not a dog!
I'm sorry, I meant "dawg." My dawg!
Originally posted by 49ers81:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Chance:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Chance:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by mayo49:It looks like NE was going to take him if we didn't.
Not in the 4th. Belichick isn't dumb.
MAYBE he jumps up 21 spots ahead of us in the 5th like the Colts did thinking we'd take a S but I doubt it. And if so, trade a 6th to move up a few more spots to secure him.
The other issue is the PK Gray is going to give you far more value and we lost out on him. Gray will give you actual points. And Lynch was mad as hell losing out on him.
The spin to justify this move is just nuts.
Yet you justified Pinion in the fifth who was not considered the best punter in college. It seems ironic that you defended the previous GM for the exact same decisions this GM is making. FWIW, I don't think the selection of Punion or Wishnowsky were bad at the time in theory. It turned out that Pinion was a dud, and that Baalke tried to get too cute. We'll see if "Make A" Wishnowksy, and Lynch's decision to get him, fare better.
Pinion (pick 165) was fine. He didn't hurt us in any way and was good at pinning teams inside the 20 esp. with Mostert healthy. We tried to resign him. He also was basically a 6th rounder...an untradeable comp pick at the end of the 5th and as part of that move, we got Trenton Brown out of it. There's zero comparison. Belichick also got his punter in the 5th this year...pick 163.
Pinion was average at best and wildly inconsistent at worst. That's UDFA territory, not any round in the draft. The problem with the Pinion pick is that he wasn't a dominant punter in college so it was a head scratcher why anyone would have drafted him to begin with. Wishnowski is a completely different story. In my opinion a dominant NFL punter is well worth a mid-late round selection. An average punter like Pinion are a dime a dozen.
You take a punter in rounds 5-7. That's all special teams and pSPARQ area. Nobody is expecting all pro punters or kickers there.
You take a punter with the 8th pick of the 4th round after having all night to strategize, you bet your ass his expectations skyrocket. And rightfully so.
But you're right. Pinion played at a UDFA level...and he was fine...signed as a FA and makes this debate even worse if you're trying to justify it.
What is that, a rule that's written down somewhere in the Fan's Guide to the NFL Draft? They needed a punter. They drafted one that they liked. It's not like they traded away a number one pick to get him or anything. The history of the NFL is littered with 4th round picks that didn't amount to anything, not sure why everyone is acting like we missed the chance to get a future Hall of Famer with that pick. At the end of the day all of these arguments boil down to the same thing, they didn't do what I thought they should do, so obviously they don't know what they are doing.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:To the never take punters in 4th crowd, I'd be shocked if Braden Mann doesn't go in 4th in the draft next year. Wouldn't surprise me on a late 3rd comp.
Originally posted by Nastastical:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Chance:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mayo49:
It looks like NE was going to take him if we didn't.
Not in the 4th. Belichick isn't dumb.
MAYBE he jumps up 21 spots ahead of us in the 5th like the Colts did thinking we'd take a S but I doubt it. And if so, trade a 6th to move up a few more spots to secure him.
The other issue is the PK Gray is going to give you far more value and we lost out on him. Gray will give you actual points. And Lynch was mad as hell losing out on him.
The spin to justify this move is just nuts.
Yet you justified Pinion in the fifth who was not considered the best punter in college. It seems ironic that you defended the previous GM for the exact same decisions this GM is making. FWIW, I don't think the selection of Punion or Wishnowsky were bad at the time in theory. It turned out that Pinion was a dud, and that Baalke tried to get too cute. We'll see if "Make A" Wishnowksy, and Lynch's decision to get him, fare better.
I can see Kyle calling a lot of fake punt plays in the pre-season.Just to see if Make-a-Wish can do it.
...and it would be good to put on philm for folks preparing for the regular season to have another thing to prepare for.
I hope they don't waste that element of surprise in meaningless preseason games. If we see it's working in practice, then it should also work when we really need it in the regular season.
We should also use him more like Hekker where it's not always the coaches making the call, but the punter having the awareness to know that the coverage has left a gaping hole for him to run through and he has the green light by the coaches to tuck it and take off. Utah fans say he had the trust of their coaching staff to sometimes make the call himself.
Originally posted by 49ers81:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Chance:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Chance:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by mayo49:It looks like NE was going to take him if we didn't.
Not in the 4th. Belichick isn't dumb.
MAYBE he jumps up 21 spots ahead of us in the 5th like the Colts did thinking we'd take a S but I doubt it. And if so, trade a 6th to move up a few more spots to secure him.
The other issue is the PK Gray is going to give you far more value and we lost out on him. Gray will give you actual points. And Lynch was mad as hell losing out on him.
The spin to justify this move is just nuts.
Yet you justified Pinion in the fifth who was not considered the best punter in college. It seems ironic that you defended the previous GM for the exact same decisions this GM is making. FWIW, I don't think the selection of Punion or Wishnowsky were bad at the time in theory. It turned out that Pinion was a dud, and that Baalke tried to get too cute. We'll see if "Make A" Wishnowksy, and Lynch's decision to get him, fare better.
Pinion (pick 165) was fine. He didn't hurt us in any way and was good at pinning teams inside the 20 esp. with Mostert healthy. We tried to resign him. He also was basically a 6th rounder...an untradeable comp pick at the end of the 5th and as part of that move, we got Trenton Brown out of it. There's zero comparison. Belichick also got his punter in the 5th this year...pick 163.
Pinion was average at best and wildly inconsistent at worst. That's UDFA territory, not any round in the draft. The problem with the Pinion pick is that he wasn't a dominant punter in college so it was a head scratcher why anyone would have drafted him to begin with. Wishnowski is a completely different story. In my opinion a dominant NFL punter is well worth a mid-late round selection. An average punter like Pinion are a dime a dozen.
You take a punter in rounds 5-7. That's all special teams and pSPARQ area. Nobody is expecting all pro punters or kickers there.
You take a punter with the 8th pick of the 4th round after having all night to strategize, you bet your ass his expectations skyrocket. And rightfully so.
But you're right. Pinion played at a UDFA level...and he was fine...signed as a FA and makes this debate even worse if you're trying to justify it.
What is that, a rule that's written down somewhere in the Fan's Guide to the NFL Draft? They needed a punter. They drafted one that they liked. It's not like they traded away a number one pick to get him or anything. The history of the NFL is littered with 4th round picks that didn't amount to anything, not sure why everyone is acting like we missed the chance to get a future Hall of Famer with that pick. At the end of the day all of these arguments boil down to the same thing, they didn't do what I thought they should do, so obviously they don't know what they are doing.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
To the never take punters in 4th crowd, I'd be shocked if Braden Mann doesn't go in 4th in the draft next year. Wouldn't surprise me on a late 3rd comp.
Originally posted by Jcool:Strange he didn't come out this year.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Strange he didn't come out this year.
One of them positions where you aren't risking health and draft position by staying. Probably enjoys college and wants to finish degree.
Originally posted by RDB4216:I guess I have a different take on the draft than most of the people in here. As I have said on many occasions I don't follow college football at all, so one player is pretty much the same as another as far as I am concerned. Though obviously I am aware that there are guys who are held in higher regard than others. As a result I look at the guys they pick in only two ways, those who end up contributing and those who don't. Doesn't matter to me where they were drafted. The Joe Williams pick is often used as some sort of barometer of the FO's drafting acumen. In my eyes they picked up two running backs that year (maybe more, but two who stick out) Williams in the fourth and Brieda as an UDFA. One worked one didn't, which seems about what you would expect out of the process. Doesn't really matter to how they were acquired. If Wishnowsky comes in, does his job, and helps the team than that's fine by me. Could care less if he was a fourth rounder or a sixth rounder since I don't have any basis for comparison for players that might have been better picks in that spot.
So a punter in the 4th isn't an exciting pick, it's also not the end of the world. Would he have been when we pick in the 5th? Maybe. But if this is the guy they wanted, it's a bit of a risk to wait when all we have is Justin Vogel. And we did trade down a bit to pick up two extra 6th round picks. The odds of us finding a gem in the 6 isn't too far off from finding one in the 4th, so we still added more chances.
Personally, I'm more upset that we drafted Deebo so high in the 2nd round...
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, it's called NFL history. The mass mass majority of P/PK's go in rounds 5-UDFA for a reason. Why? Because a P has little barring on the outcome of a game compared to all other positions. In fact, maybe the least.
The reason why we broke the internet was because what we did was an outlier...8th pick in the 4th round.
Are there other outliers? Sure, mostly for PK's because they actually put points on the board and affect the outcome of a game more.
Originally posted by RTFirefly:Originally posted by NCommand:Yeah, it's called NFL history. The mass mass majority of P/PK's go in rounds 5-UDFA for a reason. Why? Because a P has little barring on the outcome of a game compared to all other positions. In fact, maybe the least.
The reason why we broke the internet was because what we did was an outlier...8th pick in the 4th round.
Are there other outliers? Sure, mostly for PK's because they actually put points on the board and affect the outcome of a game more.
The NFL refused to consider soccer-style kickers for decades, then Don Shula shocked the league with Garo Yepremian and soon soccer-style kickers were all the rage.
Teams copy success. "Traditions" die.
