Mitch Wishnowsky - Punter (Utah) is a 49er

Originally posted by NCommand:
I mostly come here for the LOL's now but you bring up a good topic.

Does the best P in the draft at #110 (immediate starter) have more value than a PK (starter), WILL (insurance), FS (challenger/starter), C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance), TE2 (starter), XWR (dynamic returner) or S/CB (starter)?

Pick #110:
PK (starter) - Puts actual points on the board and often times IS the difference in a game. And we're in a major contract dispute.
WILL (insurance) - Kwon is coming off late season ACL surgery. We have Elijah Lee. Finding a short-term starter, depth and ST help here is very important.
FS (challenger/starter) - Let's be real. A quality UDFA could genuinely challenge Ward and Colbert for a starting job if Woods is objective.
C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance) - Richburg won't be back until July after 2 surgeries. Person was signed to be a backup. There's nobody behind Staley/MM. Tomlinson had a MCL.
TE2 (starter) - This is a 500 snap player on offense alone. Just like the slot CB.
XWR (dynamic returner) - What if Goodwin goes down again and we lose that speed? Are we ever going to find a Ted Ginn Jr.?
S/CB (starter) - Reed had shoulder surgery and Williams is streaky at best and struggles with injuries too.

Pinion 2018: 68 Punts - 64LG - 43.7AVG - 22 (inside 20)
Hekker 2018: 43 - 68 - 46.3 - 21

Hekker plays for the Rams and is a pro bowl P.

If we're being honest, with a healthy roster, our P will be punting around 45 times a year (not factoring in the success of our defense). Now, average yards isn't the best metric for measuring the effectiveness of a P but this does provide perspective. Also, we're now the #1 team on the aggregate over 5 years in adjusted games lost due to injuries. In short our backups play...and play A LOT.

Are 45 punts, a 46 yard average and 21 punts inside the 20 going to add more value than the aforementioned? I'll even throw in a couple tricks plays for first downs.

The average ST snaps are around 200 alone.

Good post!

We already have a bunch of XWR(Dynamic Returner) types on our team with Taylor, Pettis, and James. I don't see what adding another guy there is going to do.

We're also stacked at CB. When healthy we have 2 #1 guys and a bunch of young guys to play nickel and dime. Picking up more Donte Johnson's and Kieth Reaser's in the hope that they become decent enough to see the field one day is a much bigger waste. Not to mention that, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR: Tarvarius Moore, DJ Reed, Marcel Harris. Now you want to repeat the same thing.

TE2 - You think a 4th round TE from this draft could clearly beat out Celek?

C/G/T - No argument here.

Detractors of the pick will eat crow before all is said and done.

Originally posted by JayBomber:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
That's 49% inside the 20 vs. Pinion's 32%, a tremendous difference.

How much had to do with the punter is another matter. I'd have to see the LOS Punted From stat for that.

On top of this,

Bradley Pinion's numbers coming out of Clemson:

Mitch Wishnowsky's numbers coming out of Utah:

Bradley's best year wasn't even Mitch's worst. I still don't know about taking a punter in the 4th, but on the bright side we upgraded the position which was needed. Giving opponents the ball at the damn 35-40 all year was killing us, we needed a guy that can pin teams deep and we got him. Maybe this guy wasn't going to be there when we picked again, who knows.. the Pats did take a punter in the 5th. He will also be our kickoff guy.

For the first and probably last time in his life, Grant Cohn/"Follower" had a point. Salt Lake City is at 4220 ft. and Wiz's average was a couple yds. shorter in road games (somebody posted the diff awhile back).

I'm a big fan of the pick but I will keep that in consideration. My guess is that Wiz showed better hang time and placement than Pinion, even in road games.

I'm actually digging this pick

Originally posted by JayBomber:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

That's 49% inside the 20 vs. Pinion's 32%, a tremendous difference.

How much had to do with the punter is another matter. I'd have to see the LOS Punted From stat for that.

On top of this,

Bradley Pinion's numbers coming out of Clemson:

Mitch Wishnowsky's numbers coming out of Utah:

Bradley's best year wasn't even Mitch's worst. I still don't know about taking a punter in the 4th, but on the bright side we upgraded the position which was needed. Giving opponents the ball at the damn 35-40 all year was killing us, we needed a guy that can pin teams deep and we got him. Maybe this guy wasn't going to be there when we picked again, who knows.. the Pats did take a punter in the 5th. He will also be our kickoff guy.

Thanks for that. But at the end of the day, Pinion was a late 5th and Wish high 4th. And a 4 yard difference in average.

Pinion proved to be an average punter which had next to zero effect on any game. His averages took a beating each time Mostert got hurt as he was having a pro bowl caliber season each time. Top gunners might be a bigger factor overall than the P's themselves. And we've got one for sure.

What these stats demonstrate is that Wish has a slightly stronger leg who punted 20 times less than Pionion but who does have top 10 P abilities.

But his actual affect on the game won't be much, just like Pinion.

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I mostly come here for the LOL's now but you bring up a good topic.

Does the best P in the draft at #110 (immediate starter) have more value than a PK (starter), WILL (insurance), FS (challenger/starter), C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance), TE2 (starter), XWR (dynamic returner) or S/CB (starter)?

Pick #110:
PK (starter) - Puts actual points on the board and often times IS the difference in a game. And we're in a major contract dispute.
WILL (insurance) - Kwon is coming off late season ACL surgery. We have Elijah Lee. Finding a short-term starter, depth and ST help here is very important.
FS (challenger/starter) - Let's be real. A quality UDFA could genuinely challenge Ward and Colbert for a starting job if Woods is objective.
C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance) - Richburg won't be back until July after 2 surgeries. Person was signed to be a backup. There's nobody behind Staley/MM. Tomlinson had a MCL.
TE2 (starter) - This is a 500 snap player on offense alone. Just like the slot CB.
XWR (dynamic returner) - What if Goodwin goes down again and we lose that speed? Are we ever going to find a Ted Ginn Jr.?
S/CB (starter) - Reed had shoulder surgery and Williams is streaky at best and struggles with injuries too.

Pinion 2018: 68 Punts - 64LG - 43.7AVG - 22 (inside 20)
Hekker 2018: 43 - 68 - 46.3 - 21

Hekker plays for the Rams and is a pro bowl P.

If we're being honest, with a healthy roster, our P will be punting around 45 times a year (not factoring in the success of our defense). Now, average yards isn't the best metric for measuring the effectiveness of a P but this does provide perspective. Also, we're now the #1 team on the aggregate over 5 years in adjusted games lost due to injuries. In short our backups play...and play A LOT.

Are 45 punts, a 46 yard average and 21 punts inside the 20 going to add more value than the aforementioned? I'll even throw in a couple tricks plays for first downs.

The average ST snaps are around 200 alone.

Good post!

We already have a bunch of XWR(Dynamic Returner) types on our team with Taylor, Pettis, and James. I don't see what adding another guy there is going to do.

We're also stacked at CB. When healthy we have 2 #1 guys and a bunch of young guys to play nickel and dime. Picking up more Donte Johnson's and Kieth Reaser's in the hope that they become decent enough to see the field one day is a much bigger waste. Not to mention that, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR: Tarvarius Moore, DJ Reed, Marcel Harris. Now you want to repeat the same thing.

TE2 - You think a 4th round TE from this draft could clearly beat out Celek?

C/G/T - No argument here.

Thanks for addressing the point! Value.

We don't have anyone with Goodwin's speed on the roster and Hightower seems terrified to use Pettis, Reed and anyone not named Taylor. But a backup X he might?

I specifically spoke to slot CB only.

LOL yes. Kaden is expected to be given his job from day 1 and he was drafted in the 6th. Was a better TE2 available at 110?

With MW it was disappointing if he didn't pin the opposing offense back. It was almost expected.

With Pinion it was unheard of.

Originally posted by Jiks:

With MW it was disappointing if he didn't pin the opposing offense back. It was almost expected.

With Pinion it was unheard of.

Yeah, that's an area he fell off on for sure. 19th in punts inside the 20 with 22. The leader had 41 for reference.

This may have already been covered but I really believe they took a kicker in the 4th rd for the recently deceased 49er scout Reggie Cobbs who spent time working with the new kicker.

Originally posted by NJNiner:
This may have already been covered but I really believe they took a kicker in the 4th rd for the recently deceased 49er scout Reggie Cobbs who spent time working with the new kicker.

yes and no. There is another player on the roster now who was also scouted by Cobb but taken later. Sentimentality only goes so far.
It may have been a factor that swung the decision, but the pick had to be made on merit and projected contribution.

Originally posted by NJNiner:

This may have already been covered but I really believe they took a kicker in the 4th rd for the recently deceased 49er scout Reggie Cobbs who spent time working with the new kicker.

I guess you would hope they listened to their scouts even if it was an emotional choice. But saying that they did this over their common sense, outright ignorance of other positions of need and rejection of other scouting is probably a stretch.

Originally posted by NJNiner:
This may have already been covered but I really believe they took a kicker in the 4th rd for the recently deceased 49er scout Reggie Cobbs who spent time working with the new kicker.

I think they included the tidbits about Cobb scouting two players as an homage, like they had his son announce a pick.
I'm sure all the scouts do a lot of leg work throughout the process.

Originally posted by NCommand:

I mostly come here for the LOL's now but you bring up a good topic.

Does the best P in the draft at #110 (immediate starter) have more value than a PK (starter), WILL (insurance), FS (challenger/starter), C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance), TE2 (starter), XWR (dynamic returner) or S/CB (starter)?

Pick #110:
PK (starter) - Puts actual points on the board and often times IS the difference in a game. And we're in a major contract dispute.
WILL (insurance) - Kwon is coming off late season ACL surgery. We have Elijah Lee. Finding a short-term starter, depth and ST help here is very important.
FS (challenger/starter) - Let's be real. A quality UDFA could genuinely challenge Ward and Colbert for a starting job if Woods is objective.
C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance) - Richburg won't be back until July after 2 surgeries. Person was signed to be a backup. There's nobody behind Staley/MM. Tomlinson had a MCL.
TE2 (starter) - This is a 500 snap player on offense alone. Just like the slot CB.
XWR (dynamic returner) - What if Goodwin goes down again and we lose that speed? Are we ever going to find a Ted Ginn Jr.?
S/CB (starter) - Reed had shoulder surgery and Williams is streaky at best and struggles with injuries too.

Pinion 2018: 68 Punts - 64LG - 43.7AVG - 22 (inside 20)
Hekker 2018: 43 - 68 - 46.3 - 21

Hekker plays for the Rams and is a pro bowl P.

If we're being honest, with a healthy roster, our P will be punting around 45 times a year (not factoring in the success of our defense). Now, average yards isn't the best metric for measuring the effectiveness of a P but this does provide perspective. Also, we're now the #1 team on the aggregate over 5 years in adjusted games lost due to injuries. In short our backups play...and play A LOT.

Are 45 punts, a 46 yard average and 21 punts inside the 20 going to add more value than the aforementioned? I'll even throw in a couple tricks plays for first downs.

The average ST snaps are around 200 alone.

Good insight. Just as well they traded back a little. Seems like they were caught in between a rock and a hard place to justify the pick.

The thing is though in this part of the draft I keep hearing that it is all such a crap shoot and trying to be scientific with depth is tough. At least this guy starts I suppose.

Your comparison with Hekker and Pinion is interesting. It's the one with Michael Dickson which intrigues me.

Dickson 78 punts 69 long 48.2 avg 28 inside 20 trick plays, kick offs(drop punts) although blocked later in season.

That type of play will justify the pick against someone with a traditional style you can get in the 7th Or UDFA

Original posted by Joecool:
I must admit that this is the first punter who's highlights I actually liked watching. Dude can punt on the run which means a defense has no idea if he will keep it or punt it.[ Edited by Joecool on Apr 28, 2019 at 5:21 PM ]

So, he can punt, kickoff, run, and run and punt. Now, if he can pass ...

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
I saw a stat that made me a believer about this guy...in his last 106 punts, less than 100 yds were returned. That's very impressive. I saw this guy a couple of times last season...he thunders the ball downfield, far and high. Our STers will love this guy. At first I was put off by Lynch taking him in the 4th...but after seeing video and reading more about him, and the fact Lynch didn't have a 5th rounder, it makes sense to take him when the opportunity presented itself. Further, he can kick with either leg...yikes. Screw all these grade people...they slammed the Niners for taking him when they did. Whatever. We now have another weapon on ST's.

A 1.06 yard average suggests a great hang time. Good luck to him and the team.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
So, he can punt, kickoff, run, and run and punt. Now, if he can pass ...

Then Aussies would dominate the Punt, Pass, and Kick competition.