Mitch Wishnowsky - Punter (Utah) is a 49er

Originally posted by zonkers:

Then Aussies would dominate the Punt, Pass, and Kick competition.

Originally posted by zonkers:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

So, he can punt, kickoff, run, and run and punt. Now, if he can pass ...

Then Aussies would dominate the Punt, Pass, and Kick competition.

Shoosh. Those folks are over reaching as it is and really annoying.

But don't expect the non Prokick/Ray Guy academy folks to sit idly by while they are stealing their lunch.

Originally posted by zonkers:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
So, he can punt, kickoff, run, and run and punt. Now, if he can pass ...

Then Aussies would dominate the Punt, Pass, and Kick competition.

There are now 5 Aussie punters in the NFL. Wishnowsky is the best of the 5

As he played AFL - Australian Football League - he can move around and kick.

AFL is like basket ball 20% of the time where you run around bouncing an oval ball on the ground every 6 paces and 80% punting to other players at varying distances on the field or punting to the goal posts.

That is why Aussies are A grade punters because they are trained to kick it long, short, medium and be accurate every time.

Having 5 Aussies in this specialist division in the NFL, which is a league not foreigner friendly, is demonstrable of how an AFL background breads the worlds best punters.

Lynch and Shanahan were right to cream their panties and pick this guy when they did.

I think the other aspect that leads to a surfeit of punters out of AFL is that your elite guys all 'punt' as part of their game, whereas in the US they seek to play in the higher status positions, leaving the punting to people who don't have the all around capacity they do. So you get Australian punters who are 6'4 who can run 4.6....

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I mostly come here for the LOL's now but you bring up a good topic.

Does the best P in the draft at #110 (immediate starter) have more value than a PK (starter), WILL (insurance), FS (challenger/starter), C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance), TE2 (starter), XWR (dynamic returner) or S/CB (starter)?

Pick #110:
PK (starter) - Puts actual points on the board and often times IS the difference in a game. And we're in a major contract dispute.
WILL (insurance) - Kwon is coming off late season ACL surgery. We have Elijah Lee. Finding a short-term starter, depth and ST help here is very important.
FS (challenger/starter) - Let's be real. A quality UDFA could genuinely challenge Ward and Colbert for a starting job if Woods is objective.
C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance) - Richburg won't be back until July after 2 surgeries. Person was signed to be a backup. There's nobody behind Staley/MM. Tomlinson had a MCL.
TE2 (starter) - This is a 500 snap player on offense alone. Just like the slot CB.
XWR (dynamic returner) - What if Goodwin goes down again and we lose that speed? Are we ever going to find a Ted Ginn Jr.?
S/CB (starter) - Reed had shoulder surgery and Williams is streaky at best and struggles with injuries too.

Pinion 2018: 68 Punts - 64LG - 43.7AVG - 22 (inside 20)
Hekker 2018: 43 - 68 - 46.3 - 21

Hekker plays for the Rams and is a pro bowl P.

If we're being honest, with a healthy roster, our P will be punting around 45 times a year (not factoring in the success of our defense). Now, average yards isn't the best metric for measuring the effectiveness of a P but this does provide perspective. Also, we're now the #1 team on the aggregate over 5 years in adjusted games lost due to injuries. In short our backups play...and play A LOT.

Are 45 punts, a 46 yard average and 21 punts inside the 20 going to add more value than the aforementioned? I'll even throw in a couple tricks plays for first downs.

The average ST snaps are around 200 alone.

Good insight. Just as well they traded back a little. Seems like they were caught in between a rock and a hard place to justify the pick.

The thing is though in this part of the draft I keep hearing that it is all such a crap shoot and trying to be scientific with depth is tough. At least this guy starts I suppose.

Your comparison with Hekker and Pinion is interesting. It's the one with Michael Dickson which intrigues me.

Dickson 78 punts 69 long 48.2 avg 28 inside 20 trick plays, kick offs(drop punts) although blocked later in season.

That type of play will justify the pick against someone with a traditional style you can get in the 7th Or UDFA

Good post and thank you for that. Good objective post.

Nobody seems to want to talk about that...style. Hekker is more traditional and Dickson non-traditional. Dickson had to adjust late in the year d/t blocked kicks.

In line with Dickson, MW lead the NCAA with blocked kicks too - 3.

So it's a boom or bust kicking game.

A blocked kick CAN change the game probably more than a deep pin. Also, it's hard to imagine Hightower coaching up his blockers up front sliding to the right after the snap with 3 point men while MW rolls right and punts.

What made him effective in college will probably have to change at the NFL level and the balls are bigger as well. He'll be kicking at sea level in Santa Clara.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I mostly come here for the LOL's now but you bring up a good topic.

Does the best P in the draft at #110 (immediate starter) have more value than a PK (starter), WILL (insurance), FS (challenger/starter), C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance), TE2 (starter), XWR (dynamic returner) or S/CB (starter)?

Pick #110:
PK (starter) - Puts actual points on the board and often times IS the difference in a game. And we're in a major contract dispute.
WILL (insurance) - Kwon is coming off late season ACL surgery. We have Elijah Lee. Finding a short-term starter, depth and ST help here is very important.
FS (challenger/starter) - Let's be real. A quality UDFA could genuinely challenge Ward and Colbert for a starting job if Woods is objective.
C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance) - Richburg won't be back until July after 2 surgeries. Person was signed to be a backup. There's nobody behind Staley/MM. Tomlinson had a MCL.
TE2 (starter) - This is a 500 snap player on offense alone. Just like the slot CB.
XWR (dynamic returner) - What if Goodwin goes down again and we lose that speed? Are we ever going to find a Ted Ginn Jr.?
S/CB (starter) - Reed had shoulder surgery and Williams is streaky at best and struggles with injuries too.

Pinion 2018: 68 Punts - 64LG - 43.7AVG - 22 (inside 20)
Hekker 2018: 43 - 68 - 46.3 - 21

Hekker plays for the Rams and is a pro bowl P.

If we're being honest, with a healthy roster, our P will be punting around 45 times a year (not factoring in the success of our defense). Now, average yards isn't the best metric for measuring the effectiveness of a P but this does provide perspective. Also, we're now the #1 team on the aggregate over 5 years in adjusted games lost due to injuries. In short our backups play...and play A LOT.

Are 45 punts, a 46 yard average and 21 punts inside the 20 going to add more value than the aforementioned? I'll even throw in a couple tricks plays for first downs.

The average ST snaps are around 200 alone.

Good insight. Just as well they traded back a little. Seems like they were caught in between a rock and a hard place to justify the pick.

The thing is though in this part of the draft I keep hearing that it is all such a crap shoot and trying to be scientific with depth is tough. At least this guy starts I suppose.

Your comparison with Hekker and Pinion is interesting. It's the one with Michael Dickson which intrigues me.

Dickson 78 punts 69 long 48.2 avg 28 inside 20 trick plays, kick offs(drop punts) although blocked later in season.

That type of play will justify the pick against someone with a traditional style you can get in the 7th Or UDFA

Good post and thank you for that. Good objective post.

Nobody seems to want to talk about that...style. Hekker is more traditional and Dickson non-traditional. Dickson had to adjust late in the year d/t blocked kicks.

In line with Dickson, MW lead the NCAA with blocked kicks too - 3.

So it's a boom or bust kicking game.

A blocked kick CAN change the game probably more than a deep pin. Also, it's hard to imagine Hightower coaching up his blockers up front sliding to the right after the snap with 3 point men while MW rolls right and punts.

What made him effective in college will probably have to change at the NFL level and the balls are bigger as well. He'll be kicking at sea level in Santa Clara.

Dickson only had 1 punt blocked last year to Hekkers 0....and that's with Dickson punting twice as many times. I don't recall him changing styles (not saying he didn't) due to blocks, but I think the kicking style is not something to be overly concerned about imo

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I mostly come here for the LOL's now but you bring up a good topic.

Does the best P in the draft at #110 (immediate starter) have more value than a PK (starter), WILL (insurance), FS (challenger/starter), C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance), TE2 (starter), XWR (dynamic returner) or S/CB (starter)?

Pick #110:
PK (starter) - Puts actual points on the board and often times IS the difference in a game. And we're in a major contract dispute.
WILL (insurance) - Kwon is coming off late season ACL surgery. We have Elijah Lee. Finding a short-term starter, depth and ST help here is very important.
FS (challenger/starter) - Let's be real. A quality UDFA could genuinely challenge Ward and Colbert for a starting job if Woods is objective.
C/G/T (challenger/starter/insurance) - Richburg won't be back until July after 2 surgeries. Person was signed to be a backup. There's nobody behind Staley/MM. Tomlinson had a MCL.
TE2 (starter) - This is a 500 snap player on offense alone. Just like the slot CB.
XWR (dynamic returner) - What if Goodwin goes down again and we lose that speed? Are we ever going to find a Ted Ginn Jr.?
S/CB (starter) - Reed had shoulder surgery and Williams is streaky at best and struggles with injuries too.

Pinion 2018: 68 Punts - 64LG - 43.7AVG - 22 (inside 20)
Hekker 2018: 43 - 68 - 46.3 - 21

Hekker plays for the Rams and is a pro bowl P.

If we're being honest, with a healthy roster, our P will be punting around 45 times a year (not factoring in the success of our defense). Now, average yards isn't the best metric for measuring the effectiveness of a P but this does provide perspective. Also, we're now the #1 team on the aggregate over 5 years in adjusted games lost due to injuries. In short our backups play...and play A LOT.

Are 45 punts, a 46 yard average and 21 punts inside the 20 going to add more value than the aforementioned? I'll even throw in a couple tricks plays for first downs.

The average ST snaps are around 200 alone.

Good insight. Just as well they traded back a little. Seems like they were caught in between a rock and a hard place to justify the pick.

The thing is though in this part of the draft I keep hearing that it is all such a crap shoot and trying to be scientific with depth is tough. At least this guy starts I suppose.

Your comparison with Hekker and Pinion is interesting. It's the one with Michael Dickson which intrigues me.

Dickson 78 punts 69 long 48.2 avg 28 inside 20 trick plays, kick offs(drop punts) although blocked later in season.

That type of play will justify the pick against someone with a traditional style you can get in the 7th Or UDFA

Good post and thank you for that. Good objective post.

Nobody seems to want to talk about that...style. Hekker is more traditional and Dickson non-traditional. Dickson had to adjust late in the year d/t blocked kicks.

In line with Dickson, MW lead the NCAA with blocked kicks too - 3.

So it's a boom or bust kicking game.

A blocked kick CAN change the game probably more than a deep pin. Also, it's hard to imagine Hightower coaching up his blockers up front sliding to the right after the snap with 3 point men while MW rolls right and punts.

What made him effective in college will probably have to change at the NFL level and the balls are bigger as well. He'll be kicking at sea level in Santa Clara.

Dickson only had 1 punt blocked last year to Hekkers 0....and that's with Dickson punting twice as many times. I don't recall him changing styles (not saying he didn't) due to blocks, but I think the kicking style is not something to be overly concerned about imo

In AFL you have guys running at you from all directions to block and interrupt your punt. Dickerson and Wishnowsky will have that situational awareness and easily adapt. After all they only have to worry about guys coming at them from the front and around the flanks of their linesmen

Originally posted by Goatie:

In AFL you have guys running at you from all directions to block and interrupt your punt. Dickerson and Wishnowsky will have that situational awareness and easily adapt. After all they only have to worry about guys coming at them from the front and around the flanks of their linesmen

Good point

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Dickson only had 1 punt blocked last year to Hekkers 0....and that's with Dickson punting twice as many times. I don't recall him changing styles (not saying he didn't) due to blocks, but I think the kicking style is not something to be overly concerned about imo

Is that accurate? I thought he had 2 alone in the Cards game (maybe called back) for TD's. And yes, they talked about that game how he sped up his delivery but still struggled. But the Cards were coming hard after him.

Originally posted by Goatie:

In AFL you have guys running at you from all directions to block and interrupt your punt. Dickerson and Wishnowsky will have that situational awareness and easily adapt. After all they only have to worry about guys coming at them from the front and around the flanks of their linesmen

I'm not as worried about him because he's used to it. I'm more worried about the blockers in front of him.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Dickson only had 1 punt blocked last year to Hekkers 0....and that's with Dickson punting twice as many times. I don't recall him changing styles (not saying he didn't) due to blocks, but I think the kicking style is not something to be overly concerned about imo

Is that accurate. I thought he had 2 alone in the Cards game (maybe called back) for TD's. And yes, they talked about that game how he sped up his delivery but still struggled.

Yes, there was an article in SEA times referencing 2 blocks, but 1 was changed later (not really sure how lol). Pro Football Reference is the only one I can find that tracks blocked punts. He also indicated after that game that he'd never had a punt even blocked in college, which was why he was so distraught about it. Maybe in that one hand he tried to speed it up, but it doesn't appear to be more than a 1 game adjustment brought on by his first ever punt blocked. Doesn't seem he has any issues with blocked punts. Hopefully this will be the same for MW

I'm just here so this thread can catch up to the Bosa thread.

Originally posted by Furlow:

I'm just here so this thread can catch up to the Bosa thread.

As it should.

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by Furlow:
I'm just here so this thread can catch up to the Bosa thread.

As it should.

Led the nation in blocked punts last year with three. Cool.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Goatie:
In AFL you have guys running at you from all directions to block and interrupt your punt. Dickerson and Wishnowsky will have that situational awareness and easily adapt. After all they only have to worry about guys coming at them from the front and around the flanks of their linesmen

I'm not as worried about him because he's used to it. I'm more worried about the blockers in front of him.

It would not matter to him if they were there or not.

Here is a 10 minute clip of an AFL game that will show you why these punters are versatile and can adapt. There are a couple of other interesting things other then punting in this clip that if occurred in NFL would make it really interesting as well.