Mitch Wishnowsky - Punter (Utah) is a 49er

Originally posted by zonkers:

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by NCommand:

https://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/2078-punter-theory-deconstructing-49ers-fourth-round-pick/

Translation: punters are pretty useless in affecting the outcome of a game as long as they don't get kicks blocked on the regular.

I'd even argue having a great gunner is even more important than the punter themselves.

Perhaps a silly question but in my observation there are coaches in the league who seem to be quite arrogant and don't seem to be open to learning new things. Then there are the new breed of hungry, clever and willing to bring some of the college ball in to play. So my question is are the new breed of punters part of evolution where McVay and Shanny lead the way and Belichick, Carroll and co. adapt in a sport that needs a distraction from head injuries?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-wave-of-young-coaching-hires-has-nfl-poised-for-an-offensive-explosion/2018/09/03/7f279f92-abb4-11e8-b1da-ff7faa680710_story.html?noredirect=on

I think it has more to do with the analytics movement. I'm guessing some stats guys see possible advantages that a punter can bring to the time of possession and field position games, which will increase the chances of winning. Some coaches are probably listening and trying to exploit it.

Definitely. Kyle referred to the analytics in reviewing Wish. Also, it's a copycat league. Someone tries something new - Dickinson has success, others quickly jump on the bandwagon.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Nastastical:
No one is saying that. What I am saying though is people put too much stock in mid round picks that are basically lottery tickets. Way more fail than work out and their value should take that into consideration, but that never happens. I'd much rather gamble on someone like Tomlinson in a trade using that mid rounder.

You don't just bypass that chance for a punter. A punter is just as likely to bomb in the 4th as an UDFA is to be a stud.

Sure you do.

Does any skill transition from college to the NFL better then punting?

Kicking and Punting might be the easiest to transition.

Utah has won 3 out of the last 4 Ray Guy awards, they are doing different stuff down there on special teams then anyone else. When you have a specimen with RARE physical ability that is also HIGHLY skilled....he is worth a draft pick.

The NFL clearly thinks this way, since our last Super Bowl win, the NFL had picked up guys like Sauerbrun in the 2nd, Gardoki, Sander, Maynard, Colquett, Podlesh and Bryan Anger taken in the 3rd round.

Its hard to look at the 4th round as an unprecedented reach when there are teams taking CONVENTIONAL punters in the 2nd and 3rd round.

There are DOZENS of punters taken in the 4th and 5th round, thats pretty crazy since they have VERY long careers by NFL standards and each team generally only carries 1 punter.

The 49ers burned a 4th rounder on a dynamic prototype punter that has almost unprecedented physical traits to go with a top tier skill set.

This really reminds me of the conversations surrounding relief pitchers in baseball. Especially guys who can do things differently that effect a game.

Punters are valuable, and Mitch by all accounts is not our grandfather's punter. The dude is unique and talented and something different. I am not saying the dude will re-write the book of punting.....but hey...the dude might add a chapter we have not seen before.

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Nastastical:

No one is saying that. What I am saying though is people put too much stock in mid round picks that are basically lottery tickets. Way more fail than work out and their value should take that into consideration, but that never happens. I'd much rather gamble on someone like Tomlinson in a trade using that mid rounder.

I get you but you're missing an important point.

The entire draft is a crap shoot. 32 players go in a first round and only half end up a starter with varying levels of quality to boot. The odds decrease every round on average after that.

But every year teams s**t the bed on first rounders (Foster/Thomas) and hit homeruns in the back end (Kittle).

You don't just bypass that chance for a punter. A punter is just as likely to bomb in the 4th as an UDFA is to be a stud.

PS: I like your thought process in late round trades. A lot.

Do you have stats for that? As punters usually act alone, their chance for success should be much higher than a position player who is reliant on his teammates and previous competition level.

OTC did some research on kickers. Feel free to PM him.

Most of the best kickers went undrafted. In fact, out of the top 10 most accurate kickers last season, only two were drafted -- Jason Sanders (7th round) and Dustin Hopkins (6th rounder). Oddly enough, many top NFL kickers were not all that accurate in college.

Also, that's not too difficult to look up on your own for punters specifically.

But why is that?

The reason why there isn't much difference between a 5th round punter and an UDFA is because of the 32 teams annually, usually just 1 or 2 need a punter. So the difference between the top punter (5th) and the 4th (UDFA) isn't significant usually and the skill set doesn't vary much compared to a power RG vs. zone blocking RG. By the time a G is picked 5th-7th, the top ones are usually long gone no matter the system/skill set.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Nastastical:

No one is saying that. What I am saying though is people put too much stock in mid round picks that are basically lottery tickets. Way more fail than work out and their value should take that into consideration, but that never happens. I'd much rather gamble on someone like Tomlinson in a trade using that mid rounder.

You don't just bypass that chance for a punter. A punter is just as likely to bomb in the 4th as an UDFA is to be a stud.

Sure you do.

Does any skill transition from college to the NFL better then punting?

Kicking and Punting might be the easiest to transition.

Utah has won 3 out of the last 4 Ray Guy awards, they are doing different stuff down there on special teams then anyone else. When you have a specimen with RARE physical ability that is also HIGHLY skilled....he is worth a draft pick.

The NFL clearly thinks this way, since our last Super Bowl win, the NFL had picked up guys like Sauerbrun in the 2nd, Gardoki, Sander, Maynard, Colquett, Podlesh and Bryan Anger taken in the 3rd round.

Its hard to look at the 4th round as an unprecedented reach when there are teams taking CONVENTIONAL punters in the 2nd and 3rd round.

There are DOZENS of punters taken in the 4th and 5th round, thats pretty crazy since they have VERY long careers by NFL standards and each team generally only carries 1 punter.

The 49ers burned a 4th rounder on a dynamic prototype punter that has almost unprecedented physical traits to go with a top tier skill set.

This really reminds me of the conversations surrounding relief pitchers in baseball. Especially guys who can do things differently that effect a game.

Punters are valuable, and Mitch by all accounts is not our grandfather's punter. The dude is unique and talented and something different. I am not saying the dude will re-write the book of punting.....but hey...the dude might add a chapter we have not seen before.

Nice post dshearn. We'll compare Wish to Dailey at the end of the year and see who ended up getting the best value at 110 and 168. Good comparison in styles too.

Originally posted by NCommand:

OTC did some research on kickers. Feel free to PM him.


Also, that's not too difficult to look up on your own for punters specifically.

But why is that?

The reason why there isn't much difference between a 5th round punter and an UDFA is because of the 32 teams annually, usually just 1 or 2 need a punter. So the difference between the top punter (5th) and the 4th (UDFA) isn't significant usually and the skill set doesn't vary much compared to a power RG vs. zone blocking RG. By the time a G is picked 5th-7th, the top ones are usually long gone no matter the system/skill set.

We talking punters, what do kickers have to do with that?

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

OTC did some research on kickers. Feel free to PM him.


Also, that's not too difficult to look up on your own for punters specifically.

But why is that?

The reason why there isn't much difference between a 5th round punter and an UDFA is because of the 32 teams annually, usually just 1 or 2 need a punter. So the difference between the top punter (5th) and the 4th (UDFA) isn't significant usually and the skill set doesn't vary much compared to a power RG vs. zone blocking RG. By the time a G is picked 5th-7th, the top ones are usually long gone no matter the system/skill set.

We talking punters, what do kickers have to do with that?

Lol was thinking the same thing

There's just something cool about Aussies. I just hope he doesn't go all Jarryd Hayne on his first play.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice post dshearn. We'll compare Wish to Dailey at the end of the year and see who ended up getting the best value at 110 and 168. Good comparison in styles too.

163....you sly dog......

163.......

It will be interesting,

Teams don't screw around on special teams very often.... so i am not sure how much run/punt option a coach can endure when the entire special teams is as fast, or faster then your punter.

There is no doubt that Mitch has a true sweet spot too. If the offense can cross the 50 they are either going to score or stand a better then average chance of pinning the other team with their backs to the goal post. In that regard Mitch is specialist.

I think we will be happy with him, and will recognize him as talented sooner rather then later.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by T-9ers:

He can definitely kick the s**t out of the ball, let's see how he handles the pressure of the NFL.

Go back and watch the AFL video on page 41. I doubt the NFL ever produces pressure like these guys are used to...

Alternatively watch some match highlights at afl site

https://m.afl.com.au/video/match-highlights

But please don't try to comprehend the rules, no one fully comprehends the rules

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

OTC did some research on kickers. Feel free to PM him.


Also, that's not too difficult to look up on your own for punters specifically.

But why is that?

The reason why there isn't much difference between a 5th round punter and an UDFA is because of the 32 teams annually, usually just 1 or 2 need a punter. So the difference between the top punter (5th) and the 4th (UDFA) isn't significant usually and the skill set doesn't vary much compared to a power RG vs. zone blocking RG. By the time a G is picked 5th-7th, the top ones are usually long gone no matter the system/skill set.

We talking punters, what do kickers have to do with that?

Lol was thinking the same thing

Because place kickers are more valued far more than P's?

You homeboys have some stats validation of punters picked in rounds 1-4 and their success rates?

Every one of them better be HOF-worthy or I'm coming for you defender-rascals!!!

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Nice post dshearn. We'll compare Wish to Dailey at the end of the year and see who ended up getting the best value at 110 and 168. Good comparison in styles too.

163....you sly dog......

163.......

It will be interesting,

Teams don't screw around on special teams very often.... so i am not sure how much run/punt option a coach can endure when the entire special teams is as fast, or faster then your punter.

There is no doubt that Mitch has a true sweet spot too. If the offense can cross the 50 they are either going to score or stand a better then average chance of pinning the other team with their backs to the goal post. In that regard Mitch is specialist.

I think we will be happy with him, and will recognize him as talented sooner rather then later.

After that pic of him surfaced, he's already a winner in this household with my wife and daughter. I won't let them listen to his Aussie accent. No way. Ha.

Like the player. Like his story.

...only in 'merica.

Page 69

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

OTC did some research on kickers. Feel free to PM him.


Also, that's not too difficult to look up on your own for punters specifically.

But why is that?

The reason why there isn't much difference between a 5th round punter and an UDFA is because of the 32 teams annually, usually just 1 or 2 need a punter. So the difference between the top punter (5th) and the 4th (UDFA) isn't significant usually and the skill set doesn't vary much compared to a power RG vs. zone blocking RG. By the time a G is picked 5th-7th, the top ones are usually long gone no matter the system/skill set.

We talking punters, what do kickers have to do with that?

Lol was thinking the same thing

Because place kickers are more valued far more than P's?

You homeboys have some stats validation of punters picked in rounds 1-4 and their success rates?

Every one of them better be HOF-worthy or I'm coming for you defender-rascals!!!

Not defending anything. He asked for Punters and you provided Kickers so was confused.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Not defending anything. He asked for Punters and you provided Kickers so was confused.

Well use you got damn brain, mate. I can't think for you too. Geesh.

Ha...sorry for the confusion.

Originally posted by KamLeon:
There's just something cool about Aussies. I just hope he doesn't go all Jarryd Hayne on his first play.

Thanks for bringing that up . Hayne was never a specialist catcher though. Lets just hope College has Wish prepped for what is to come in the NFL.
The other difference is Wish played Aussie Rules where they catch, run and kick on the move and under pressure. That moving while a gunner is coming at you should help. And Utah is a big time team that this guy is transitioning from with not as much to learn as Hayne.