Defensive Line Thread

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Bosa, Hargrave and Armstead are winning their 1-on-1s with Hargrave and Bosa winning at an elite level. Unfortunately, they're getting little out of the other end spot in 1-on-1s. Drake Jackson isn't winning very much and Ferrell is just a warm body out there.

Looks like the Niners saw it the same way, which is f**king obvious to anyone that is paying attention and understands what they're seeing.

We've been saying this for weeks now.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
We've been saying this for weeks now.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by thl408:
Hargrave and a healthy Armstead is going to wreak havoc this season. Kinlaw and Givens nicely round out the group.

I wonder what Wilks calls that five DL personnel. Would be nice if one of the talented 49er beat writers asked him this.

Crazy how the IDL has gone from a perceived weakness to a strength, same with the EDGE spot. The entire DL is a huge strength.

If we had one more speed highly productive veteran ER, this DL might finally be complete.

Good on you, John.

Thank You Hyder... just stay in shape buddy, you never know.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Boys need to start getting home and creating some negative plays and turnovers

Yes, other teams are throwing it out faster, but they ain't doing that the whole game.... 300+ Mil on the dline and can't get sacks

Well lets see who is helping who. Lets rest our D line and see if our coverage is still only allowing 5.4 YPA. Than we can see how fast you folks change your mind.

or they can keep doing what they've been doing, but actually getting home more often?

You cannot expect a pass rush to get home consistently when the oppposition is consistently getting rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds like they have the last few weeks. Guess what? Week 1 against the steelers, Picket had an average TTT of 2.9 seconds and we got home 5 times in that game.

This.

We have 9 sacks , Eagles have 11. Both teams are middle of the pack right now. And why? Teams are scheming against the DL.

I'll take this kind of production from our DL all year, as long as we keep getting good pressure and forcing quick throws it's not a big issue. They've been making even Lenoir look very good. Slot is the only position getting picked on more which is understandable bc that's where you're gonna have the most success in the short passing game.

As long as the defense is not missing tackles, giving up YAC and stays at that 5.4 YPA (ranked 3rd), the sack rate isn't a big deal.

I agree with what you guys have said here and they have played great, but doesn't mean they can't improve. Their average time to throw is 2.5 or 2.9 as you have stated, but there was plays where they had longer times to throw and nothing was generated. Our defense was getting sliced up for like 3 - 5 drives against the Cards and it wasn't until Gravedigger finally made a big sack and swung the whole game our way. Like I mentioned we have a lot invested in our Dline and even though they've played great expecting some more from them isn't a big stretch.

Also since you brought up defense not missing tackles and were doing great being ranked 3rd. We actually had a lot of missed tackles at point of contact where they gained extra yards so we can improve there too even though were already pretty good there.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Boys need to start getting home and creating some negative plays and turnovers

Yes, other teams are throwing it out faster, but they ain't doing that the whole game.... 300+ Mil on the dline and can't get sacks

Well lets see who is helping who. Lets rest our D line and see if our coverage is still only allowing 5.4 YPA. Than we can see how fast you folks change your mind.

or they can keep doing what they've been doing, but actually getting home more often?

You cannot expect a pass rush to get home consistently when the oppposition is consistently getting rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds like they have the last few weeks. Guess what? Week 1 against the steelers, Picket had an average TTT of 2.9 seconds and we got home 5 times in that game.

This.

We have 9 sacks , Eagles have 11. Both teams are middle of the pack right now. And why? Teams are scheming against the DL.

I'll take this kind of production from our DL all year, as long as we keep getting good pressure and forcing quick throws it's not a big issue. They've been making even Lenoir look very good. Slot is the only position getting picked on more which is understandable bc that's where you're gonna have the most success in the short passing game.

As long as the defense is not missing tackles, giving up YAC and stays at that 5.4 YPA (ranked 3rd), the sack rate isn't a big deal.

I agree with what you guys have said here and they have played great, but doesn't mean they can't improve. Their average time to throw is 2.5 or 2.9 as you have stated, but there was plays where they had longer times to throw and nothing was generated. Our defense was getting sliced up for like 3 - 5 drives against the Cards and it wasn't until Gravedigger finally made a big sack and swung the whole game our way. Like I mentioned we have a lot invested in our Dline and even though they've played great expecting some more from them isn't a big stretch.

Also since you brought up defense not missing tackles and were doing great being ranked 3rd. We actually had a lot of missed tackles at point of contact where they gained extra yards so we can improve there too even though were already pretty good there.

The only missed tackles I saw in the ARI game were a few by Fred Warner. But two other defenders always seemed to be there right away to clean it up.

Sacks are a great stat to look at and we all love them but they aren't the end all be all to the success of a pass rush. Especially when its affectively forcing QB's to get rid of the ball faster than they really want to. Just wait until offenses start getting impatient and start holding the ball longer. The sacks will come.

What we really need to tighten up defensively are those 3rd and short situations. ARI was able to sustain drives because of their ability to convert on 3rd/4th and short. It was the same thing against the rams. If we can clean that up, maybe our defense can go from giving up 14.5 ppg to under 10.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Bosa, Hargrave and Armstead are winning their 1-on-1s with Hargrave and Bosa winning at an elite level. Unfortunately, they're getting little out of the other end spot in 1-on-1s. Drake Jackson isn't winning very much and Ferrell is just a warm body out there.

Looks like the Niners saw it the same way, which is f**king obvious to anyone that is paying attention and understands what they're seeing.

Who are you talking to?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Bosa, Hargrave and Armstead are winning their 1-on-1s with Hargrave and Bosa winning at an elite level. Unfortunately, they're getting little out of the other end spot in 1-on-1s. Drake Jackson isn't winning very much and Ferrell is just a warm body out there.

Looks like the Niners saw it the same way, which is f**king obvious to anyone that is paying attention and understands what they're seeing.

I was hoping all off season they'd sign a vet. Guess they wanted to see what Drake could do first.

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:
Who are you talking to?

Nobody in specific(definitely not you) but to the crowd that thought Drake Jackson was playing good or even great. He ain't.

Originally posted by lamontb:
I was hoping all off season they'd sign a vet. Guess they wanted to see what Drake could do first.

True, but they did invest a day-2 pick in Drake, so I don't blame them for giving him a chance to lockdown the spot. But we're about 1/4 through the season, and I don't think Drake showed close to enough to believe he'll suddenly have a breakout season. Maybe bringing in Gregory will light a fire in his ass, but I feel like that rarely works out.

I hate to say it, but Jackson is starting to remind me of Manny Lawson in a way (I know different positions and all) . Very athletic and agile player, very good at cleaning up, great effort and motor, but just not great at winning one on one matchups as an edge. He isn't looking like a pass rush specialist they envisioned him to be.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
I hate to say it, but Jackson is starting to remind me of Manny Lawson in a way (I know different positions and all) . Very athletic and agile player, very good at cleaning up, great effort and motor, but just not great at winning one on one matchups as an edge. He isn't looking like a pass rush specialist they envisioned him to be.

Reminds me of Eli Harold, too. He was another athletic edge that had the tools but simply never developed his craft of pass rushing. I remember seeing and discussing the same stuff with Eli that I'm seeing with Drake.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
I hate to say it, but Jackson is starting to remind me of Manny Lawson in a way (I know different positions and all) . Very athletic and agile player, very good at cleaning up, great effort and motor, but just not great at winning one on one matchups as an edge. He isn't looking like a pass rush specialist they envisioned him to be.

Manny Lawson, man that's a name I haven't heard in years. I thought he was going to be a stud, instead he was a dud.

I wouldn't give up on Drake just yet. Remember this is only year 2 for him playing DE in the NFL. At USC I believe he was mostly a DT. So he is still learning a new position at the highest level of football that there is. That being said, if he doesn't start to turn the corner towards the end of this season, then the light better go on by the start of next year.

I like his (Gregory) upright stance. Brings a different angle to the line than the get low bull rush we see a lot.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Boys need to start getting home and creating some negative plays and turnovers

Yes, other teams are throwing it out faster, but they ain't doing that the whole game.... 300+ Mil on the dline and can't get sacks

Well lets see who is helping who. Lets rest our D line and see if our coverage is still only allowing 5.4 YPA. Than we can see how fast you folks change your mind.

or they can keep doing what they've been doing, but actually getting home more often?

You cannot expect a pass rush to get home consistently when the oppposition is consistently getting rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds like they have the last few weeks. Guess what? Week 1 against the steelers, Picket had an average TTT of 2.9 seconds and we got home 5 times in that game.

This.

We have 9 sacks , Eagles have 11. Both teams are middle of the pack right now. And why? Teams are scheming against the DL.

I'll take this kind of production from our DL all year, as long as we keep getting good pressure and forcing quick throws it's not a big issue. They've been making even Lenoir look very good. Slot is the only position getting picked on more which is understandable bc that's where you're gonna have the most success in the short passing game.

As long as the defense is not missing tackles, giving up YAC and stays at that 5.4 YPA (ranked 3rd), the sack rate isn't a big deal.

I agree with what you guys have said here and they have played great, but doesn't mean they can't improve. Their average time to throw is 2.5 or 2.9 as you have stated, but there was plays where they had longer times to throw and nothing was generated. Our defense was getting sliced up for like 3 - 5 drives against the Cards and it wasn't until Gravedigger finally made a big sack and swung the whole game our way. Like I mentioned we have a lot invested in our Dline and even though they've played great expecting some more from them isn't a big stretch.

Also since you brought up defense not missing tackles and were doing great being ranked 3rd. We actually had a lot of missed tackles at point of contact where they gained extra yards so we can improve there too even though were already pretty good there.

The only missed tackles I saw in the ARI game were a few by Fred Warner. But two other defenders always seemed to be there right away to clean it up.

Sacks are a great stat to look at and we all love them but they aren't the end all be all to the success of a pass rush. Especially when its affectively forcing QB's to get rid of the ball faster than they really want to. Just wait until offenses start getting impatient and start holding the ball longer. The sacks will come.

What we really need to tighten up defensively are those 3rd and short situations. ARI was able to sustain drives because of their ability to convert on 3rd/4th and short. It was the same thing against the rams. If we can clean that up, maybe our defense can go from giving up 14.5 ppg to under 10.

There were a few where we had like 2-3 guys at first contact and they couldn't make the tackle and they gain like 2-4 extra yards.

I'm sure teams will start to get impatient and will start letting our Dline feast.

Back to my first reply if we could actually make more tackles at point of contact and give them even less YAC we could probably not be in those 3rd and shorts so often. Agree that if they can improve that our defense would look even scarier. We do need to improve because we will most likely face Eagles in the playoffs if we make it and they're like unstoppable in 3rd and shorts since they always go for 4th and 1 or inches. If we can keep teams under 10 pts throughout the season and playoffs I would be ecstatic!