Defensive Line Thread

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
I hate to say it, but Jackson is starting to remind me of Manny Lawson in a way (I know different positions and all) . Very athletic and agile player, very good at cleaning up, great effort and motor, but just not great at winning one on one matchups as an edge. He isn't looking like a pass rush specialist they envisioned him to be.

Reminds me of Eli Harold, too. He was another athletic edge that had the tools but simply never developed his craft of pass rushing. I remember seeing and discussing the same stuff with Eli that I'm seeing with Drake.

That's a good comp too.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Boys need to start getting home and creating some negative plays and turnovers

Yes, other teams are throwing it out faster, but they ain't doing that the whole game.... 300+ Mil on the dline and can't get sacks

Well lets see who is helping who. Lets rest our D line and see if our coverage is still only allowing 5.4 YPA. Than we can see how fast you folks change your mind.

or they can keep doing what they've been doing, but actually getting home more often?

You cannot expect a pass rush to get home consistently when the oppposition is consistently getting rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds like they have the last few weeks. Guess what? Week 1 against the steelers, Picket had an average TTT of 2.9 seconds and we got home 5 times in that game.

This.

We have 9 sacks , Eagles have 11. Both teams are middle of the pack right now. And why? Teams are scheming against the DL.

I'll take this kind of production from our DL all year, as long as we keep getting good pressure and forcing quick throws it's not a big issue. They've been making even Lenoir look very good. Slot is the only position getting picked on more which is understandable bc that's where you're gonna have the most success in the short passing game.

As long as the defense is not missing tackles, giving up YAC and stays at that 5.4 YPA (ranked 3rd), the sack rate isn't a big deal.

I agree with what you guys have said here and they have played great, but doesn't mean they can't improve. Their average time to throw is 2.5 or 2.9 as you have stated, but there was plays where they had longer times to throw and nothing was generated. Our defense was getting sliced up for like 3 - 5 drives against the Cards and it wasn't until Gravedigger finally made a big sack and swung the whole game our way. Like I mentioned we have a lot invested in our Dline and even though they've played great expecting some more from them isn't a big stretch.

Also since you brought up defense not missing tackles and were doing great being ranked 3rd. We actually had a lot of missed tackles at point of contact where they gained extra yards so we can improve there too even though were already pretty good there.

The only missed tackles I saw in the ARI game were a few by Fred Warner. But two other defenders always seemed to be there right away to clean it up.

Sacks are a great stat to look at and we all love them but they aren't the end all be all to the success of a pass rush. Especially when its affectively forcing QB's to get rid of the ball faster than they really want to. Just wait until offenses start getting impatient and start holding the ball longer. The sacks will come.

What we really need to tighten up defensively are those 3rd and short situations. ARI was able to sustain drives because of their ability to convert on 3rd/4th and short. It was the same thing against the rams. If we can clean that up, maybe our defense can go from giving up 14.5 ppg to under 10.

There were a few where we had like 2-3 guys at first contact and they couldn't make the tackle and they gain like 2-4 extra yards.

I'm sure teams will start to get impatient and will start letting our Dline feast.

Back to my first reply if we could actually make more tackles at point of contact and give them even less YAC we could probably not be in those 3rd and shorts so often. Agree that if they can improve that our defense would look even scarier. We do need to improve because we will most likely face Eagles in the playoffs if we make it and they're like unstoppable in 3rd and shorts since they always go for 4th and 1 or inches. If we can keep teams under 10 pts throughout the season and playoffs I would be ecstatic!

Your original point was about pressures and sacks. I don't know how you expect the pass rush to get home if the offense is throwing 5 yards off a 3 step drop at such a high rate. Our linebackers are who need to clamp down on the tackles. Fred Warner has 8 missed tackles this season. That is 3rd highest amongst linebackers. Greenlaw has 4 missed tackles. Those two combine for half of all missed tackles on our defense and more than the entire secondary.

I hope Drake, Clelin and Austin Bryant (brought up from practice squad) turn it up today after seeing Randy Gregory brought in.

On the Turpin TD, saw Armstead playing Left End, thought it was interesting. Givens was pretty damn good today in many aspects at tackle so they just put AA in at end for a few snaps ?

Either way, interesting rotation.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Boys need to start getting home and creating some negative plays and turnovers

Yes, other teams are throwing it out faster, but they ain't doing that the whole game.... 300+ Mil on the dline and can't get sacks

Well lets see who is helping who. Lets rest our D line and see if our coverage is still only allowing 5.4 YPA. Than we can see how fast you folks change your mind.

or they can keep doing what they've been doing, but actually getting home more often?

You cannot expect a pass rush to get home consistently when the oppposition is consistently getting rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds like they have the last few weeks. Guess what? Week 1 against the steelers, Picket had an average TTT of 2.9 seconds and we got home 5 times in that game.

This.

We have 9 sacks , Eagles have 11. Both teams are middle of the pack right now. And why? Teams are scheming against the DL.

I'll take this kind of production from our DL all year, as long as we keep getting good pressure and forcing quick throws it's not a big issue. They've been making even Lenoir look very good. Slot is the only position getting picked on more which is understandable bc that's where you're gonna have the most success in the short passing game.

As long as the defense is not missing tackles, giving up YAC and stays at that 5.4 YPA (ranked 3rd), the sack rate isn't a big deal.

I agree with what you guys have said here and they have played great, but doesn't mean they can't improve. Their average time to throw is 2.5 or 2.9 as you have stated, but there was plays where they had longer times to throw and nothing was generated. Our defense was getting sliced up for like 3 - 5 drives against the Cards and it wasn't until Gravedigger finally made a big sack and swung the whole game our way. Like I mentioned we have a lot invested in our Dline and even though they've played great expecting some more from them isn't a big stretch.

Also since you brought up defense not missing tackles and were doing great being ranked 3rd. We actually had a lot of missed tackles at point of contact where they gained extra yards so we can improve there too even though were already pretty good there.

The only missed tackles I saw in the ARI game were a few by Fred Warner. But two other defenders always seemed to be there right away to clean it up.

Sacks are a great stat to look at and we all love them but they aren't the end all be all to the success of a pass rush. Especially when its affectively forcing QB's to get rid of the ball faster than they really want to. Just wait until offenses start getting impatient and start holding the ball longer. The sacks will come.

What we really need to tighten up defensively are those 3rd and short situations. ARI was able to sustain drives because of their ability to convert on 3rd/4th and short. It was the same thing against the rams. If we can clean that up, maybe our defense can go from giving up 14.5 ppg to under 10.

There were a few where we had like 2-3 guys at first contact and they couldn't make the tackle and they gain like 2-4 extra yards.

I'm sure teams will start to get impatient and will start letting our Dline feast.

Back to my first reply if we could actually make more tackles at point of contact and give them even less YAC we could probably not be in those 3rd and shorts so often. Agree that if they can improve that our defense would look even scarier. We do need to improve because we will most likely face Eagles in the playoffs if we make it and they're like unstoppable in 3rd and shorts since they always go for 4th and 1 or inches. If we can keep teams under 10 pts throughout the season and playoffs I would be ecstatic!

Your original point was about pressures and sacks. I don't know how you expect the pass rush to get home if the offense is throwing 5 yards off a 3 step drop at such a high rate. Our linebackers are who need to clamp down on the tackles. Fred Warner has 8 missed tackles this season. That is 3rd highest amongst linebackers. Greenlaw has 4 missed tackles. Those two combine for half of all missed tackles on our defense and more than the entire secondary.

No, my original response was that they're not getting the ball out that fast every snap. Then I added that there were plays where they didn't throw out fast and nothing was generated...... Fred/Greenlaw missing tackles just furthers my point, even though as you stated that the YAC we give up is "ranked 3rd" which should be great, b ut we can still improve. Same with getting home, it can be improved... not sure where you can say that it can't improve here... also I even mentioned that the Dline has played great, but can improve...

What a surprise when teams (so far only Dak) hold on to the ball longer than 2.5 seconds we get sacks

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
No, my original response was that they're not getting the ball out that fast every snap. Then I added that there were plays where they didn't throw out fast and nothing was generated...... Fred/Greenlaw missing tackles just furthers my point, even though as you stated that the YAC we give up is "ranked 3rd" which should be great, b ut we can still improve. Same with getting home, it can be improved... not sure where you can say that it can't improve here... also I even mentioned that the Dline has played great, but can improve...

We are top 3 in Qb hurries and Qb hits

which literally means we are getting home. And just for reference, these ranks are actually quite a bit higher than last year when we had more sacks. We are getting home and forcing QBs to throw the all way faster than they want to

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
No, my original response was that they're not getting the ball out that fast every snap. Then I added that there were plays where they didn't throw out fast and nothing was generated...... Fred/Greenlaw missing tackles just furthers my point, even though as you stated that the YAC we give up is "ranked 3rd" which should be great, b ut we can still improve. Same with getting home, it can be improved... not sure where you can say that it can't improve here... also I even mentioned that the Dline has played great, but can improve...

Funny because the 2 games where the QB has held onto the ball for 2.75 seconds or longer on average, the defense has recorded 9 sacks. In the 3 games where the QB was getting the ball out in less than 2.75 seconds on average, they have 4 sacks. Its almost like when the QB isn't getting the ball out at the top of his drop, he is being sacked at a high rate.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
On the Turpin TD, saw Armstead playing Left End, thought it was interesting. Givens was pretty damn good today in many aspects at tackle so they just put AA in at end for a few snaps ?

Either way, interesting rotation.

I have no issues with AA playing some DE, but prefer he play mostly as a IDL where he excels.

And yes Givens was good, we'll likely lose him in the offseason, along with Oren Burks, and McCloud, just can't afford everyone, not when we need to pay Mooney, Dre, AA, BA, Huf, & Banks.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
On the Turpin TD, saw Armstead playing Left End, thought it was interesting.

He smoked the right tackle, too.

Dang it. Hyder signed with the Texans to their practice squad.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
No, my original response was that they're not getting the ball out that fast every snap. Then I added that there were plays where they didn't throw out fast and nothing was generated...... Fred/Greenlaw missing tackles just furthers my point, even though as you stated that the YAC we give up is "ranked 3rd" which should be great, b ut we can still improve. Same with getting home, it can be improved... not sure where you can say that it can't improve here... also I even mentioned that the Dline has played great, but can improve...

Funny because the 2 games where the QB has held onto the ball for 2.75 seconds or longer on average, the defense has recorded 9 sacks. In the 3 games where the QB was getting the ball out in less than 2.75 seconds on average, they have 4 sacks. Its almost like when the QB isn't getting the ball out at the top of his drop, he is being sacked at a high rate.

so they can't improve? Even though I've already mentioned they have been great.

This is really going no where now.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Dang it. Hyder signed with the Texans to their practice squad.

I think partially because we already have Bryant. I wish we could've brought him back. I also would like to look at Jordan Willis.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
so they can't improve? Even though I've already mentioned they have been great.

This is really going no where now.

i think you are missing the point. The DL is doing its job and then some by
1) eliminating the run game
2) forcing the QB to get rid of the ball very fast

just because it isn't showing up on the box score doesn't mean they arent doing their job. There is a reason our defense allows the least amount of explosive plays and on the pass defense side we allowed the least amount of net passing yards/attempt

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
so they can't improve? Even though I've already mentioned they have been great.

This is really going no where now.

i think you are missing the point. The DL is doing its job and then some by
1) eliminating the run game
2) forcing the QB to get rid of the ball very fast

just because it isn't showing up on the box score doesn't mean they arent doing their job. There is a reason our defense allows the least amount of explosive plays and on the pass defense side we allowed the least amount of net passing yards/attempt

You laid it out very nicely. Better than I was I think. Thank you.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
so they can't improve? Even though I've already mentioned they have been great.

This is really going no where now.

i think you are missing the point. The DL is doing its job and then some by
1) eliminating the run game
2) forcing the QB to get rid of the ball very fast

just because it isn't showing up on the box score doesn't mean they arent doing their job. There is a reason our defense allows the least amount of explosive plays and on the pass defense side we allowed the least amount of net passing yards/attempt

You laid it out very nicely. Better than I was I think. Thank you.

Right. The D-line makes it SOOOO easy for our back 7 to play defense because there is only so much teams are able to do offensively.