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Defensive Line Thread
Oct 24, 2023 at 2:05 PM
- brodiebluebanaszak
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- Posts: 14,387
Pff has our individual guys doing pretty well. Bosa in the 90s. Lol. Doesn't pass the eye test in any way.
Oct 24, 2023 at 2:06 PM
- leakyfausett
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- Posts: 11,730
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
Wouldn't sun out of steam in the fourth Quarter is you got off the field more in the first and second quarter. This Dline should be winning those reps early I the game and are not.
Oct 24, 2023 at 3:00 PM
- SLCNiner
- Member
- Posts: 11,650
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
So you're saying Ebukam, Hurst, Willis and Ridgeway were THAT valuable? Other than that the line is the same, except the additions of Hargrave, Ferrell, Gregory. That SHOULD be a net win. How did we lose depth in that scenario?
edit: Bosa running outa gas should come as a surprise to NOBODY.
[ Edited by SLCNiner on Oct 24, 2023 at 3:03 PM ]
Oct 24, 2023 at 3:13 PM
- Hoovtrain
- Veteran
- Posts: 31,831
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
So you're saying Ebukam, Hurst, Willis and Ridgeway were THAT valuable? Other than that the line is the same, except the additions of Hargrave, Ferrell, Gregory. That SHOULD be a net win. How did we lose depth in that scenario?
edit: Bosa running outa gas should come as a surprise to NOBODY.
Agreed
Oct 24, 2023 at 3:17 PM
- titan
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- Posts: 8,012
Hargraves , Bosa, Armstead. This should be enough talent to dominate. Every QB pass should practically be interrupted.
Oct 24, 2023 at 3:57 PM
- mitpdub
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- NFL Pick 'em
Originally posted by titan:
Hargraves , Bosa, Armstead. This should be enough talent to dominate. Every QB pass should practically be interrupted.
Is Armstead still on this team? I thought I saw him but you wouldn't know on the stat sheet. No one has been as mediocre after signing a big deal as him.
Oct 24, 2023 at 4:34 PM
- Heroism
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- Posts: 23,868
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
So you're saying Ebukam, Hurst, Willis and Ridgeway were THAT valuable? Other than that the line is the same, except the additions of Hargrave, Ferrell, Gregory. That SHOULD be a net win. How did we lose depth in that scenario?
edit: Bosa running outa gas should come as a surprise to NOBODY.
Who said anything about being that valuable? I said multiple times last year that the 2022 group was underwhelming compared to the 2021 or 2019 groups, so they're already downgrading to a lower level of play from a mediocre one relative to recent 49ers' DL. But yeah, if we're comparing this group to that one, this 2023 group is worst than last year's group. This one is extremely top heavy with zero depth. Samson Ebukam, Jordan Willis and Charles Omenihu are collectively better depth than Drake Jackson and Clelin Ferrell. Randy Gregory should help moving forward, but I don't think people realize how bad these 2 are. Ridgeway was a base player, so it's a push there. I think Hurst played like 10 reps in 2 years as a 49er, so not sure why he's brought up.
But as I noted, there's are multiple factors here contributing to the lack of pass rush, and one obvious one is the personnel. The other is Wilks. This is just based on the live games, but I don't think he's doing enough to mix up and disguise his coverages. The ball is coming out far too easily for QBs; he's also not helping his guys with the weird blitzing s**t.
[ Edited by Heroism on Oct 24, 2023 at 5:40 PM ]
Oct 24, 2023 at 4:39 PM
- LottDMontanaO
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,691
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
Good post.
Re: #1: Gotta have decent DL depth over the course of a long NFL season - hoping the more Gregory gets reps & acclimated, the more pressures/production he contributes. They haven't received much quality depth from recent draft picks though still holding out hope for Drake Jackson and hopefully on the edge one day with Beal Jr. (haven't heard any injury updates on him). Kinlaw just isn't making the impact that's needed, especially for a 14th overall pick. The Ferrell FA pick up I had higher hopes than what he's shown so far...still hoping but not seeing much. Givens shows flashes like last night and depending on the matchup can provide pretty good production for a backup. Outside of that, just a bunch of guys that make minimal impact inside or on the edge.
#2: 100% the secondary isn't giving them enough time to get home. Can't tell you how many times this season (especially last night) I've yelled at the T.V. to the secondary, "get up on them" or "stay in better position" just a little longer to at least give the pass rush a chance at disrupting (or sacking) the QB. Isaiah Oliver has been a culprit that but really a lot of the secondary had contributed to this. Or, they bail out the QB who's chucking it up hoping to draw a flag and thus, extend the drive.
Curious to see what kind of adjustments Wilks makes with this D going forward with him having a better understanding of his player's strengths & weaknesses.
Oct 24, 2023 at 4:40 PM
- TD49ers
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,707
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Pff has our individual guys doing pretty well. Bosa in the 90s. Lol. Doesn't pass the eye test in any way.
PFF based on what.....
Oct 24, 2023 at 4:48 PM
- FredFlintstone
- Veteran
- Posts: 46,052
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
So you're saying Ebukam, Hurst, Willis and Ridgeway were THAT valuable? Other than that the line is the same, except the additions of Hargrave, Ferrell, Gregory. That SHOULD be a net win. How did we lose depth in that scenario?
edit: Bosa running outa gas should come as a surprise to NOBODY.
Ebukam and Omenihu were very valuable and depth pieces. We definitely gotten worse on that end because Ferrell and Jackson are not as good as those 2 were
Oct 24, 2023 at 5:38 PM
- brodiebluebanaszak
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,387
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
So you're saying Ebukam, Hurst, Willis and Ridgeway were THAT valuable? Other than that the line is the same, except the additions of Hargrave, Ferrell, Gregory. That SHOULD be a net win. How did we lose depth in that scenario?
edit: Bosa running outa gas should come as a surprise to NOBODY.
you forgot omenihu. Ridgeway gave us some GOOD snaps. maybe the best run stuffing IL before getting hurt. Ebukam gave us a bit of speed.
Oct 24, 2023 at 7:01 PM
- lamontb
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- NFL Pick 'em
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Been saying it since 2004, the 49ers need a Vince Wilfork type DT. But noooooope they continue to bring in 300 pounders who's tall and have problems stopping the run.
Good point..we need a dj jones
Oct 24, 2023 at 7:02 PM
- lamontb
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- Posts: 31,021
- NFL Pick 'em
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by SLCNiner:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Obviously, the guys need to step it up, but the biggest issues I see are:
1) There's zero depth--like literally none. One of the main guys sits to catch his breath, and there's a massive drop off in terms of pass rushing--Drake Jackson is trash; Clelin Ferrell is trash; Javon Kinlaw is trash; Kevin Givens is just meh. Subsequently, this forces the main guys to take a ton of reps. The wide 9 is one of the most physically demanding fronts in football. The front is predicated on attacking in waves of max effort reps. Bosa, Armstead and Hargrave are running on fumes by the 4th Quarter.
2) The secondary simply isn't giving them enough time. The guys are winning, but the secondary is allowing QBs to get the ball out. I don't watch the all-22, but I felt like DeMeco did an awesome job of disguising stuff and forcing QBs to hold the ball for just a second longer thus allowing the DL to get home.
So you're saying Ebukam, Hurst, Willis and Ridgeway were THAT valuable? Other than that the line is the same, except the additions of Hargrave, Ferrell, Gregory. That SHOULD be a net win. How did we lose depth in that scenario?
edit: Bosa running outa gas should come as a surprise to NOBODY.
you forgot omenihu. Ridgeway gave us some GOOD snaps. maybe the best run stuffing IL before getting hurt. Ebukam gave us a bit of speed.
Right Thise we're guys who could come in and at least be average and give some good reps. This crew comes in and gets steamrolled
Oct 24, 2023 at 7:05 PM
- SanDiego49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 50,142
You can't explain it by depth. They can't even dominate the 1st quarter. Not even the first 5 minutes. It's SCHEME and by extension defensive coordinator.
Oct 24, 2023 at 7:35 PM
- Young2Rice
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,688
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Scheme? For the back 7, sure. But DL? It's wildly getting beat 1on1. Several OL's have not only stoned the DL but did it without extra help.
For a GM who's sacrificed the entire roster building up the greatest DL in history, Lynch has to feel sick to his stomach right now.
it's been this way the whole season. It's not just one bad week. We are bottom half of the league in sacks. one issue for sure is there is no depth at all. our back ups aren't good players and they come in and provide nothing. Givens, Kinlaw, Drake, and CF would all struggle to make the Eagles roster. .
and we need to ask is AA washed up. i mean dude isn't doing s**t out there.
They picked AA over Buckner and have been trying to fix the interior of the DL every year since then. Money was an excuse. Just look what they have spent since then. Buckner is 10 times the player of AA and in my opinion better than Hargrove over both of their careers. Buckner was the heart and soul of the defense here.
Its a shocking difference between the two since that choice.
Buck:
Tackles - 229
Sacks - 27.5
FF - 5
PD -10
AA:
Tackles - 49
Sacks - 10
FF - 0
PD - 3 (all 3 came in one season)
We thought we could replace him with Kinlaw. Big gamble that completely blew up.