Harbaugh's 2011 49ers VERSUS Shanahan's 2019 49ers(hypothetical)Who would win?

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
2011 49ers defense would dominate this offense. As much as I like Kyle, come on. We turned the ball over 5 times against the lowly Steelers who aren't even that great. How can anyone say with confidence that this offense is clicking right now? Because we beat up a bad Bengals team?

Yeah, Harbaugh's offense sucked, but he'd probably get enough Field Goals to beat us, lol.

edit: I'll start giving Kyle more credit if he can beat some contenders on the schedule. Like the Packers, Rams, or Seahawks. Maybe my opinion will change if that happens

that was 1 game we turned the ball over that many times.
I'd give this team no chance if it wasn't for Shanahan. We would own the 2011 defense schematically. he'd easily out coach Harbaugh and Fangio

Originally posted by blunt_probe:
The 2011 team would demolish this year's team and should have won the super bowl. With that said, I like the potential of this group even if they're still learning how to win.

Well-said.

Too early to say... but I'm leaning toward 2011 team.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I think it's a bit too early for this comparison.

it's not a comparison, or didnt mean to be. it's "vs." as in who would win

How do you have a "vs" without a comparison?

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by kelson49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by alwayssecond:
2019 has better qb, te, dl and special teams

2011 had better ol, lb and dbs

Rb and fb is a wash

Harbaugh is better than shanahan and fangio is much better than saleh

I think it's close but the 2011 defense prevails

with witherspoon in the lineup, 2019 easily has better DB's with him and sherman

I get that Kittle has been very good and will *probably* end up as the best Niner TE ever barring injury or free agency departure, but why does this forum continually underrate prime VD? Remember what he did to the Giants in that NFCCG? The Saints the week before? It's unfair to compare given Kittle's small sample, but VD was an amazing athlete and put up a ton of really good seasons from 2009-2013. Kittle just has the one to go off so far. OH AND LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT DELANIE FRICKIN' WALKER, the "second" tight end for those years.

How is RB and FB a wash? I get that our current RB stable is really good, especially for a bunch of undrafted dudes, but good lord...Frank Gore is AMAZING, and Kendall Hunter was not a slouch. We all had very high hopes for him until the 2012 injury. I have also seen way more consistency from Juice than I did from Bruce Miller, though Miller admittedly had his moments.

As to the responder's point about Witherspoon somehow making the difference, that's just insane. Also, don't forget that Brown and Cox were not slouches. Furthermore, our safeties now are "fine," but I'll take 2011 Whitner and Goldson over them, no question.

Because all Vernon had was his speed. once he loses that he'll be nothing. was a terrible pass-catcher, would always jump unnecessarily to catch passes thrown to him with his body. and he got punished for it that time vs. Chancellor. Blocking he wasn't great at either.

Agreed about RB and FB. pretty solid then. too bad we had no screen game.

Disagree completely about the safeties. they were hard-hitting safeties and weren't all that great in coverage. I like who we have now

Those are all fair points on TE, but VD is easily the best Niner TE of all time for at least a couple more years. Don't forget how good of a blocker he was too. Moreover, I repeat: DELANIE WALKER. Kwon and Warner are good, but even Willis/Bowman and the best DBs among those two teams couldn't cover two TEs at the same time like that.

Agreed on the screen game back then. I remember begging them to get Kendall Hunter into space more often. We couldn't defend it very well for whatever reason either; I remember vividly thinking that was our one weakness.

What have our safeties now actually done? Again, this is sort of inherent in trying to compare a team with a three-game sample vs. one with 18, but Goldson and Whitner had special years in 2011. Moore has been...fine? A couple PBUs, one bad angle on JuJu, but no heinous mistakes that I can recall. Tartt is great in the box because he's a great tackler, but I don't think he's better than Whitner and Goldson were. Those two had so many highlights on running plays or screen/flat passes. At best, that's a push.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I think it's a bit too early for this comparison.

it's not a comparison, or didnt mean to be. it's "vs." as in who would win

How do you have a "vs" without a comparison?

idk man, for some reason I was just fascinated with what a hypothetical matchup would look like knowing 99.9% of our roster has been turned around

Originally posted by kelson49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by kelson49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by alwayssecond:
2019 has better qb, te, dl and special teams

2011 had better ol, lb and dbs

Rb and fb is a wash

Harbaugh is better than shanahan and fangio is much better than saleh

I think it's close but the 2011 defense prevails

with witherspoon in the lineup, 2019 easily has better DB's with him and sherman

I get that Kittle has been very good and will *probably* end up as the best Niner TE ever barring injury or free agency departure, but why does this forum continually underrate prime VD? Remember what he did to the Giants in that NFCCG? The Saints the week before? It's unfair to compare given Kittle's small sample, but VD was an amazing athlete and put up a ton of really good seasons from 2009-2013. Kittle just has the one to go off so far. OH AND LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT DELANIE FRICKIN' WALKER, the "second" tight end for those years.

How is RB and FB a wash? I get that our current RB stable is really good, especially for a bunch of undrafted dudes, but good lord...Frank Gore is AMAZING, and Kendall Hunter was not a slouch. We all had very high hopes for him until the 2012 injury. I have also seen way more consistency from Juice than I did from Bruce Miller, though Miller admittedly had his moments.

As to the responder's point about Witherspoon somehow making the difference, that's just insane. Also, don't forget that Brown and Cox were not slouches. Furthermore, our safeties now are "fine," but I'll take 2011 Whitner and Goldson over them, no question.

Because all Vernon had was his speed. once he loses that he'll be nothing. was a terrible pass-catcher, would always jump unnecessarily to catch passes thrown to him with his body. and he got punished for it that time vs. Chancellor. Blocking he wasn't great at either.

Agreed about RB and FB. pretty solid then. too bad we had no screen game.

Disagree completely about the safeties. they were hard-hitting safeties and weren't all that great in coverage. I like who we have now

Those are all fair points on TE, but VD is easily the best Niner TE of all time for at least a couple more years. Don't forget how good of a blocker he was too. Moreover, I repeat: DELANIE WALKER. Kwon and Warner are good, but even Willis/Bowman and the best DBs among those two teams couldn't cover two TEs at the same time like that.

Agreed on the screen game back then. I remember begging them to get Kendall Hunter into space more often. We couldn't defend it very well for whatever reason either; I remember vividly thinking that was our one weakness.

What have our safeties now actually done? Again, this is sort of inherent in trying to compare a team with a three-game sample vs. one with 18, but Goldson and Whitner had special years in 2011. Moore has been...fine? A couple PBUs, one bad angle on JuJu, but no heinous mistakes that I can recall. Tartt is great in the box because he's a great tackler, but I don't think he's better than Whitner and Goldson were. Those two had so many highlights on running plays or screen/flat passes. At best, that's a push.

Kittle blew VD's record out of the water with receiving TD's, so far he's on pace to blow him out of the water in all stats overall as well. He's just all-around better. But of course, VD did a lot of us. no debating that. he was one of the best TE's we've ever had. I'll give Kittle another year before crowning him over VD VD just never seemed to be the same after that seattle game where he got knocked TF out. and yeah, Walker was pretty much a WR for us. was pretty dope.

after re-watching those '11 playoff games and '12 packer playoff game, oh man, I don't know that Whitner and Goldson could survive now in today's NFL. with the helmet to helmet and big hits, they'd get fined up the ass or suspended for sure. But again, they were always a liability when it came to covering TE's. even Willis too. too bad Colbert didn't work out for us. honestly that's the 1 position group I need to watch more of is the safety play for the '19 niners

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I don't know - I think if you just purely swapped players, he's versatile enough to get the best out of them. I could see him changing the OL significantly, but Gore in prime was talented enough to run in an OZ scheme and be a good enough pass catcher. I think his WRs would be a little different, although they're definitely more reliable. I would love to see what Shanny could do with VD. Iupati and Davis probably aren't nimble enough for OZ, but hey I can't say that completely given they haven't been given the opportunity to transition. Davis had pretty quick feet so I could see him making the change.

Sure Shanny would change it, just like JH would change Shanny's but if given each squad without changes, I'm willing to bet Shanny could win his JHs squad pretty easily.

If he had control I see him renting Gore and Davis until he gets his guy, Iupati is gone but I think Davis stays. There would be a lot of changes. And who knows what he'd do at qb which is the biggest question since Alex wasn't exactly the franchise guy after 2010. Do we end up with Cousins a year later?

I could see those changes... although I still like Gore in his prime as a Shanny back. Gore 8 years ago was very much one cut back with speed :).

Early in his career, Gore was a good pass receiver. That changed under HaRoman as Gore was the horse in the cloud of dust in that Schembechler offense. From then on, he was only considered a "power runner."

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I think it's a bit too early for this comparison.

it's not a comparison, or didnt mean to be. it's "vs." as in who would win

How do you have a "vs" without a comparison?

idk man, for some reason I was just fascinated with what a hypothetical matchup would look like knowing 99.9% of our roster has been turned around

I get it though. I still think it's a bit too early for a comparison. Much of the talent on this roster is still in the process of panning out. Plus, that JH team was built completely different from this Shanny team, and both teams have vastly different ways of winning. About the only real comparison is the good defense both teams play. (This Saleh defense is for real!!) That JH team went to 3 straight NFC title games and one SB. This Shanny team is on the precipice of it's first PO season but still struggling to gain respect. This Shanny-lead team hasn't won anything yet (but we will).

That's why, IMHO, it's a bit too early to compare the two teams.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I think it's a bit too early for this comparison.

it's not a comparison, or didnt mean to be. it's "vs." as in who would win

How do you have a "vs" without a comparison?

idk man, for some reason I was just fascinated with what a hypothetical matchup would look like knowing 99.9% of our roster has been turned around

I get it though. I still think it's a bit too early for a comparison. Much of the talent on this roster is still in the process of panning out. Plus, that JH team was built completely different from this Shanny team, and both teams have vastly different ways of winning. About the only real comparison is the good defense both teams play. (This Saleh defense is for real!!) That JH team went to 3 straight NFC title games and one SB. This Shanny team is on the precipice of it's first PO season but still struggling to gain respect. This Shanny-lead team hasn't won anything yet (but we will).

That's why, IMHO, it's a bit too early to compare the two teams.

that's EXACTLY my point, and why it is so intriguing. that's the point. how these 2 teams would hypothetically fare up against each other face-to-face.

Better offensive scheme with the 2019 team. The Defenses are a bit different. I think we have a better front 7 now. Our secondary now is more aggressive and faster. Fangio's D was more of a bend don't break defense and would rush 4 most of the time with few blitzes.
I think it is close but I like the 2019 team personally. I do think we are set up much better now going into the 2020 season then the 2011 team was going into the 2012 season.
Just my personal opinion

Originally posted by stonecold590:
Better offensive scheme with the 2019 team. The Defenses are a bit different. I think we have a better front 7 now. Our secondary now is more aggressive and faster. Fangio's D was more of a bend don't break defense and would rush 4 most of the time with few blitzes.
I think it is close but I like the 2019 team personally. I do think we are set up much better now going into the 2020 season then the 2011 team was going into the 2012 season.
Just my personal opinion

probably the exact kind of reply i was hoping for more of. interesting take, I agree. primarily schematics-wise

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

maybe wait till we beat a couple contenders and not barely beat scrub ass teams???? maybe???? NT.......

It's not surprising that you sound like someone that hasn't actually watched this year. Two road wins in the NFL by 14+ isn't "barely beating scrubs" the only team they barely beat was one that they turned it over 5 times and still won. s**tty teams don't win games that they have 5 TOs in. Still put up more than 430 yards. Same team in fact that held Baltimore who was the top offense in football to Under 300 yards and forced overtime.

24/7 PL.....you just know they are all rooting so hard for a loss tonight so they can post in this very thread It'll be the full on 24/7 PL circle jerk of the same dudes saying the same stupid s**t. What's even funnier is the dudes that are championing Harbs the most were the biggest Harbs critics when he was actually here. I wonder why that is....

Aww it's just hypothetical? I was hoping to somehow actually arrange this game.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by kelson49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by kelson49er:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Originally posted by alwayssecond:

2019 has better qb, te, dl and special teams

2011 had better ol, lb and dbs

Rb and fb is a wash

Harbaugh is better than shanahan and fangio is much better than saleh

I think it's close but the 2011 defense prevails

with witherspoon in the lineup, 2019 easily has better DB's with him and sherman

I get that Kittle has been very good and will *probably* end up as the best Niner TE ever barring injury or free agency departure, but why does this forum continually underrate prime VD? Remember what he did to the Giants in that NFCCG? The Saints the week before? It's unfair to compare given Kittle's small sample, but VD was an amazing athlete and put up a ton of really good seasons from 2009-2013. Kittle just has the one to go off so far. OH AND LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT DELANIE FRICKIN' WALKER, the "second" tight end for those years.

How is RB and FB a wash? I get that our current RB stable is really good, especially for a bunch of undrafted dudes, but good lord...Frank Gore is AMAZING, and Kendall Hunter was not a slouch. We all had very high hopes for him until the 2012 injury. I have also seen way more consistency from Juice than I did from Bruce Miller, though Miller admittedly had his moments.

As to the responder's point about Witherspoon somehow making the difference, that's just insane. Also, don't forget that Brown and Cox were not slouches. Furthermore, our safeties now are "fine," but I'll take 2011 Whitner and Goldson over them, no question.

Because all Vernon had was his speed. once he loses that he'll be nothing. was a terrible pass-catcher, would always jump unnecessarily to catch passes thrown to him with his body. and he got punished for it that time vs. Chancellor. Blocking he wasn't great at either.

Agreed about RB and FB. pretty solid then. too bad we had no screen game.

Disagree completely about the safeties. they were hard-hitting safeties and weren't all that great in coverage. I like who we have now

Those are all fair points on TE, but VD is easily the best Niner TE of all time for at least a couple more years. Don't forget how good of a blocker he was too. Moreover, I repeat: DELANIE WALKER. Kwon and Warner are good, but even Willis/Bowman and the best DBs among those two teams couldn't cover two TEs at the same time like that.

Agreed on the screen game back then. I remember begging them to get Kendall Hunter into space more often. We couldn't defend it very well for whatever reason either; I remember vividly thinking that was our one weakness.

What have our safeties now actually done? Again, this is sort of inherent in trying to compare a team with a three-game sample vs. one with 18, but Goldson and Whitner had special years in 2011. Moore has been...fine? A couple PBUs, one bad angle on JuJu, but no heinous mistakes that I can recall. Tartt is great in the box because he's a great tackler, but I don't think he's better than Whitner and Goldson were. Those two had so many highlights on running plays or screen/flat passes. At best, that's a push.

Kittle blew VD's record out of the water with receiving TD's, so far he's on pace to blow him out of the water in all stats overall as well. He's just all-around better. But of course, VD did a lot of us. no debating that. he was one of the best TE's we've ever had. I'll give Kittle another year before crowning him over VD VD just never seemed to be the same after that seattle game where he got knocked TF out. and yeah, Walker was pretty much a WR for us. was pretty dope.

after re-watching those '11 playoff games and '12 packer playoff game, oh man, I don't know that Whitner and Goldson could survive now in today's NFL. with the helmet to helmet and big hits, they'd get fined up the ass or suspended for sure. But again, they were always a liability when it came to covering TE's. even Willis too. too bad Colbert didn't work out for us. honestly that's the 1 position group I need to watch more of is the safety play for the '19 niners

Kittle has more yards than VD in a season, but not TDs. Also, I hear the narrative a lot that VD wasn't good anymore after the hit by Kam Chancellor in 2012, but he did have 850 yards and 13 TDs the season after that. His production in 2012 was about the same before and after that hit and he had over 100 yards twice in the playoffs.