Was going through the Tomsula/Kelly years the best for us?

Originally posted by 49erswin:
You have to consider the whole picture... It took years of futility and firing multiple coaches and Baalke for Jed to accept responsibility for his role in micromanaging and destroying the team. Prior to that he kept blaming everyone else. Finally, Jed agreed to step back and was able to land a quality GM and coach.

Was it necessary to go through so many bad coaches and losing seasons while rebuilding, probably not. But in terms of teaching young Jed his limits, it was.

Now in terms of comparing Harbaugh and Shanahan... It's like comparing Roosevelt and Lincoln as presidents. Times and situations are different. Harbaugh had to deal with an immature Jed, Baalke as the GM, and Smith and Kaepernick as QBs. He hired Manusky and Fangio as his assistants, took the team to the superbowl, and got NFL coach of the year in 2011. Shanahan is in a much more favorable situation and would likely accomplish a lot more with Jed stepping back, Lynch as a GM, and Garoppolo as the QB.

Agreed. I was just going to post something along similar lines and I saw your post. The biggest benefit was for Jed York to grow up and keep his fingers out of the cooking.

Originally posted by goldlame2013:

Wonder if Trent Baalke learned anything from this?

He learned that a players arm length is the most vital statistic

Originally posted by Niners_D:

Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Wonder if Trent Baalke learned anything from this?

He learned that a players arm length is the most vital statistic

He learned that despite him being a dick he can get a job in NFL head office and can officiate over video reviews and be a double dick.

Originally posted by Niners_D:

Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Wonder if Trent Baalke learned anything from this?

He learned that a players arm length is the most vital statistic

Don't forget the clever art of of drafting injured players that you could invite udfa.

Value!

I especially admire Baalke's memorization of the draft value chart and how he conned so many other teams by slyly swapping for more draft position without any evaluation of the athletes that will actually be selected in those pick positions.

For example Baalke would be all about trading Nick Bosa (2600) for Devin White (1700) and Daniel Jones (1600).

Genius!

Baalke all about ops! The go to ops guy for Jed!

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

WHHHAAAATTT? Kap was Harbaugh's second-round hand-picked Golden Boy. Harb's brilliant Vision was Conquering the world with Romans power run gimmick read-option Las Vegas b******* offense.

And now you're trying to rewrite history making it seem like that was the hand he was dealt? Come on man.

Harbs is a stooge drawing up an offensive Playbook and its the reason he will never be a pro coach again.

Only smart thing he did was let fangio coach up his Hall of Fame defensive personnel. So we had a couple years watching Willis Bowman JSmith Asmith Brooks Whitner Ray Ray put the hurt on people. That's all he ever did for this franchise.

Can't seem to develop a handpicked QB in college either.

He will be a pro coach again when he can convince and owner to give him total control. That's what he is waiting for. Maybe Cleveland will.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by Niners_D:

Originally posted by goldlame2013:
Wonder if Trent Baalke learned anything from this?

He learned that a players arm length is the most vital statistic

He learned that despite him being a dick he can get a job in NFL head office and can officiate over video reviews and be a double dick.

Must have been out of the NY booth when Seattle was complaining though

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Can't seem to develop a handpicked QB in college either.

He will be a pro coach again when he can convince and owner to give him total control. That's what he is waiting for. Maybe Cleveland will.

he's got total control in michigan with star studded draft classes. They stink.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by 49erswin:
You have to consider the whole picture... It took years of futility and firing multiple coaches and Baalke for Jed to accept responsibility for his role in micromanaging and destroying the team. Prior to that he kept blaming everyone else. Finally, Jed agreed to step back and was able to land a quality GM and coach.

Was it necessary to go through so many bad coaches and losing seasons while rebuilding, probably not. But in terms of teaching young Jed his limits, it was.

Now in terms of comparing Harbaugh and Shanahan... It's like comparing Roosevelt and Lincoln as presidents. Times and situations are different. Harbaugh had to deal with an immature Jed, Baalke as the GM, and Smith and Kaepernick as QBs. He hired Manusky and Fangio as his assistants, took the team to the superbowl, and got NFL coach of the year in 2011. Shanahan is in a much more favorable situation and would likely accomplish a lot more with Jed stepping back, Lynch as a GM, and Garoppolo as the QB.

Agreed. I was just going to post something along similar lines and I saw your post. The biggest benefit was for Jed York to grow up and keep his fingers out of the cooking.

What you call growing up I call Jed realizing his actions and ego have the whole of the bay area ready to kick his ass. The whole "you don't fire the owner" bit and hate from Eddie's kids have hopefully put his ego in check for at least a while.

Originally posted by jcs:

What you call growing up I call Jed realizing his actions and ego have the whole of the bay area ready to kick his ass. The whole "you don't fire the owner" bit and hate from Eddie's kids have hopefully put his ego in check for at least a while.

Doesn't hurt that his current GM and coach don't have the oversized egos the previous guys had.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by 49erswin:
You have to consider the whole picture... It took years of futility and firing multiple coaches and Baalke for Jed to accept responsibility for his role in micromanaging and destroying the team. Prior to that he kept blaming everyone else. Finally, Jed agreed to step back and was able to land a quality GM and coach.

Was it necessary to go through so many bad coaches and losing seasons while rebuilding, probably not. But in terms of teaching young Jed his limits, it was.

Now in terms of comparing Harbaugh and Shanahan... It's like comparing Roosevelt and Lincoln as presidents. Times and situations are different. Harbaugh had to deal with an immature Jed, Baalke as the GM, and Smith and Kaepernick as QBs. He hired Manusky and Fangio as his assistants, took the team to the superbowl, and got NFL coach of the year in 2011. Shanahan is in a much more favorable situation and would likely accomplish a lot more with Jed stepping back, Lynch as a GM, and Garoppolo as the QB.

Agreed. I was just going to post something along similar lines and I saw your post. The biggest benefit was for Jed York to grow up and keep his fingers out of the cooking.

This is what people are missing. If Harbaugh had a non meddling Jed, Lynch for GM and Garoppolo for QB he could win the Super Bowl with that. It's incredible what he did really. He had a meddling and clueless Jed, a terrible GM, Alex Smith and Kaepernick at QB and they made multiple NFC Championships and the Super Bowl once. To do that with what he had is incredible. He did not have favorable circumstances at all.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Can't seem to develop a handpicked QB in college either.

He will be a pro coach again when he can convince and owner to give him total control. That's what he is waiting for. Maybe Cleveland will.

he's got total control in michigan with star studded draft classes. They stink.

You drastically over rate his draft classes. They are nowhere near the category of Ohio State, LSU, Clemson, Alabama. He does the best he can with what they get. They get talent there. But not the super elite talent that some of these programs get. There are much better athletes on some of these programs than what Michigan has.

Harbaugh hand picked Kap. Brodie is right you can't rewrite history and say if he only had this he'd win. He wouldn't. Jimmy wouldn't be nearly as impactful playing in that crap passing offense.

He can recruit whoever he wants at Michigan. They land plenty of talent. Patterson was the 3rd overall player in the country in his class. The guys go to the other schools because they are better coached programs. Ed Orgeron actually beats teams in the top 10 and is willing to change things up with his offense when it isn't working.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by 49erswin:
You have to consider the whole picture... It took years of futility and firing multiple coaches and Baalke for Jed to accept responsibility for his role in micromanaging and destroying the team. Prior to that he kept blaming everyone else. Finally, Jed agreed to step back and was able to land a quality GM and coach.

Was it necessary to go through so many bad coaches and losing seasons while rebuilding, probably not. But in terms of teaching young Jed his limits, it was.

Now in terms of comparing Harbaugh and Shanahan... It's like comparing Roosevelt and Lincoln as presidents. Times and situations are different. Harbaugh had to deal with an immature Jed, Baalke as the GM, and Smith and Kaepernick as QBs. He hired Manusky and Fangio as his assistants, took the team to the superbowl, and got NFL coach of the year in 2011. Shanahan is in a much more favorable situation and would likely accomplish a lot more with Jed stepping back, Lynch as a GM, and Garoppolo as the QB.

Agreed. I was just going to post something along similar lines and I saw your post. The biggest benefit was for Jed York to grow up and keep his fingers out of the cooking.

What you call growing up I call Jed realizing his actions and ego have the whole of the bay area ready to kick his ass. The whole "you don't fire the owner" bit and hate from Eddie's kids have hopefully put his ego in check for at least a while.

I think it was the completion of his cabana in my hometown, that mansion up in the foothills. Keeps him occupied.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Harbaugh hand picked Kap. Brodie is right you can't rewrite history and say if he only had this he'd win. He wouldn't. Jimmy wouldn't be nearly as impactful playing in that crap passing offense.

He can recruit whoever he wants at Michigan. They land plenty of talent. Patterson was the 3rd overall player in the country in his class. The guys go to the other schools because they are better coached programs. Ed Orgeron actually beats teams in the top 10 and is willing to change things up with his offense when it isn't working.

He didn't hand pick Kap. He was on the roster and Alex Smith was sucking. So he went with what we had. Which was very limited for both guys. He would do way better with Garoppolo. He never had talent anywhere near that at QB when he was our coach. He had to hide the QB and try to win. It's tough to win like that.

Orgeron was garbage until this year. Losing every big game he was ever in. Now this year he has a very unique QB who makes it go for him. Wait until that QB leaves for the NFL. It won't be the same for him at all. He won't go undefeated anymore or to the Championship. His QB is carrying him and making him look good.

Originally posted by goldlame2013:

LOL,I know I'm gonna get stoned for this but think about it. Let's go back to 2014. Is Jim Harbaugh a better coach than Kyle Shanahan?

No, but he was the leader we needed at the time that gave a talented roster the direction it needed.

Is Colin Kaepernick a better QB than Jimmy G?

LOL. Hell no. An outstanding athlete, but an at max mediocre quarterback who has amazing straight line speed, with little actual escapability, and few of the traits required to be a great QB. Jimmy G is not the athlete Kaep was, but by far a superior QB.

Is the old 3-4 defense we ran better than the 4-3 we got talent and all?

Maybe. That old defense was legit. This new defense is good, but not as good as the old defense, yet.

Is Baalke better than Lynch.

LOL. He'll no. Not completely clueless as far as judging defensive talent, but a better scout than a GM.

I know we suffered through horrible regimes. Tomsula/Kelly/Baalke was horrible. But it led to us having a young genius as coach. Good draft picks. The return of the West Coast offense. The return of the 4-3. We got as far as we were gonna with Harbaugh/Kap. It sucked what we went through, but it looks like it was worth it.

Absolutely. We had to go through 1999-2016 in order to get the new regime in 2017 and to get to where we are now.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He didn't hand pick Kap. He was on the roster and Alex Smith was sucking. So he went with what we had. Which was very limited for both guys. He would do way better with Garoppolo. He never had talent anywhere near that at QB when he was our coach. He had to hide the QB and try to win. It's tough to win like that.

Orgeron was garbage until this year. Losing every big game he was ever in. Now this year he has a very unique QB who makes it go for him. Wait until that QB leaves for the NFL. It won't be the same for him at all. He won't go undefeated anymore or to the Championship. His QB is carrying him and making him look good.

No man, that is just crazy.

Baalke hated Kap.

Harbaugh saw kap and and said this is the guy who will bring college offense to the NFL.

He specifically dumped our game managing qb who just took us deep into playoffs for this one-read half field 4.5 sprinter.

A disastrous strategic franchise-changing decision.

It got exposed once teams figured out kap was a complete pocket passing noob with the klutsiest pocket awareness since obese sonny jurgenson.

Stop the fake news please. You were there with all of us and saw it go down so you know what actually happened.