How does this current 49ers defensive line compare to the 1997 49ers defensive line?

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by IHATELOWELLCOHN:
You couldn't find a better DL than 97??? Those were all names but mostly just that. Give me BY and the 19 DL.

I didn't start watching the Niners until the mid 90s.

The 97 DL is more than just names. This line hold the opponent running to just 3.5 yards a carry. The defense had 54 sacks, including:
Stubblefield: 15.0 sacks, Defensive Player of the Year
Doleman: 12.0 sacks (Pro Bowl)
Kevin Greene: 10.5 (From 1994 to 1998, he was a pro bowler except 1997. He didn't have an off year, not making to the pro bowl because he didn't start. He was the situational pass rusher)
Bryant Young: only had 4.0 sacks that year, but we all know how good and consistent he was. He was considered to be the best DT until the injury in 1998. He had 11.5 the year before, and 9.5 and 11.0 sacks the two years after 1997.
Roy Barker: Only 5.0 sacks because Kevin Greene replaced him on passing down. He had 12.5 sacks the year before and 12 sacks the year after

The knock on them is they didn't do a good job in the playoff.

Yep, I was just about to type this. Those guys disappeared in the playoffs along with Woodson vs the Packers. He couldn't cover Antonio Freeman/Robert Brooks on the slant route to save his life.

Originally posted by jimrat:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
This years line is much more impactful and disruptive.

The comparison should be with 1975 gold rush webb/hart/hardman/elam.

1984 with Dean, Big hands Johnson, Board, Manu, Stucky, these guys caused a lot of caos.

Not like now.

I've been watching the niners on tv since 1970. I can't recall any combination of scheme/players which has put more red shirts in the pocket more often from more directions than this year's edition.

On many plays it looks like at least one guy is blocked by invisible jello.

The pocket is hardly ever regular or comfortable for the quarterback to step up and get out a throw in any direction.

Even for the gold rush, the pressure usually came from the ends.

Here's, it's from anywhere.

Originally posted by Kyzen:
Lol, this DL would smash the hell out of the '97 squad and its not even close. More than straight accross the board, the depth on this team is so much better that the depth guys could hang with that starting unit of '97.

IMO, no way 2019 DL is WAY better.

Kevin Greene and Chris Doleman are hall of famer and were still in their prime in 1997 base on productivity
Bryant Young was widely considered the best DT at that time.
Dana Stubblefield was the Defensive Player of the Year
Roy Barker was no pushover. He had double digit sacks the year before and the year after.
Junior Bryant became a full time starter and a solid starting player the year later
Marvin Washington was a veteran backup. He was a full time starter for six seasons before 1997 with the Jets

I agree 1997 DL depth wasn't as good as the 2019 DL, but IMO it is hard to argue the 2019 DL top 5 players are as good as the 1997 DL top 5 players.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Kyzen:
Lol, this DL would smash the hell out of the '97 squad and its not even close. More than straight accross the board, the depth on this team is so much better that the depth guys could hang with that starting unit of '97.

IMO, no way 2019 DL is WAY better.

Kevin Greene and Chris Doleman are hall of famer and were still in their prime in 1997 base on productivity
Bryant Young was widely considered the best DT at that time.
Dana Stubblefield was the Defensive Player of the Year
Roy Barker was no pushover. He had double digit sacks the year before and the year after.
Junior Bryant became a full time starter and a solid starting player the year later
Marvin Washington was a veteran backup. He was a full time starter for six seasons before 1997 with the Jets

I agree 1997 DL depth wasn't as good as the 2019 DL, but IMO it is hard to argue the 2019 DL top 5 players are as good as the 1997 DL top 5 players.

I don't like jumping the gun and giving guys waaay too much praise before it's earned.

BUT as far as this year is concerned, in answering the question who has done a better job FOR US, who has made more of an impact FOR US (not through their entire career, just FOR US):

Bosa >> Doleman , Greene.

Bosa is doubled and tripled by lineman 10-20 times a game. Unheard of. Nobody dedicated line resources to that degree against Doleman Green. That's reggie white/jjwatt territory.

Early days for this line but I think I will go for them.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Kyzen:

Lol, this DL would smash the hell out of the '97 squad and its not even close. More than straight accross the board, the depth on this team is so much better that the depth guys could hang with that starting unit of '97.

IMO, no way 2019 DL is WAY better.

Kevin Greene and Chris Doleman are hall of famer and were still in their prime in 1997 base on productivity
Bryant Young was widely considered the best DT at that time.
Dana Stubblefield was the Defensive Player of the Year
Roy Barker was no pushover. He had double digit sacks the year before and the year after.
Junior Bryant became a full time starter and a solid starting player the year later
Marvin Washington was a veteran backup. He was a full time starter for six seasons before 1997 with the Jets

I agree 1997 DL depth wasn't as good as the 2019 DL, but IMO it is hard to argue the 2019 DL top 5 players are as good as the 1997 DL top 5 players.

I don't like jumping the gun and giving guys waaay too much praise before it's earned.

BUT as far as this year is concerned, in answering the question who has done a better job FOR US, who has made more of an impact FOR US (not through their entire career, just FOR US):

Bosa >> Doleman , Greene.

Bosa is doubled and tripled by lineman 10-20 times a game. Unheard of. Nobody dedicated line resources to that degree against Doleman Green. That's reggie white/jjwatt territory.

I agree Bosa > Doleman

Stubblefield DPOY >> Armstead

Bryant Young = Buckner

Greene >> Ford

Barker = DJ Jones as the starter in the base defense. That is hard to assess because they play different position.

Depth 2019 > 1997

Base on this it is about equal, maybe 97 DL has a slight edge. I don't know how the 2019 DL can be way better than the 1997 DL

Originally posted by libertyforever:

I agree Bosa > Doleman

Stubblefield DPOY >> Armstead

Bryant Young = Buckner

Greene >> Ford

Barker = DJ Jones as the starter in the base defense. That is hard to assess because they play different position.

Depth 2019 > 1997

Base on this it is about equal, maybe 97 DL has a slight edge. I don't know how the 2019 DL can be way better than the 1997 DL

IMO Stubblefield is slightly overrated. Stubby capitalized on Young absorbing double teams playing that cocked nose position.

I know you don't win every battle, but Ogden as a rookie playing guard erased Stubblefield when they played.
Also when GB played 49ers in the playoffs a guard making his first start, Stubby was quoted saying "Fresh meat". Sadly you didn't hear a thing from Stubby that game.

Don't get me wrong, Stubby was very good, but not Sapp or Randle level.

Young > Buckner
Healthy Ford = Greene

Originally posted by Lott94:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

I agree Bosa > Doleman

Stubblefield DPOY >> Armstead

Bryant Young = Buckner

Greene >> Ford

Barker = DJ Jones as the starter in the base defense. That is hard to assess because they play different position.

Depth 2019 > 1997

Base on this it is about equal, maybe 97 DL has a slight edge. I don't know how the 2019 DL can be way better than the 1997 DL

IMO Stubblefield is slightly overrated. Stubby capitalized on Young absorbing double teams playing that cocked nose position.

I know you don't win every battle, but Ogden as a rookie playing guard erased Stubblefield when they played.
Also when GB played 49ers in the playoffs a guard making his first start, Stubby was quoted saying "Fresh meat". Sadly you didn't hear a thing from Stubby that game.

Don't get me wrong, Stubby was very good, but not Sapp or Randle level.

Young > Buckner
Healthy Ford = Greene

I agree Stubblefield was overrated. But he still had to have a ridiculously great year to be the DPOY, even if he played next to Bryant Young. You can't be not great to win the DPOY.

Kevin Greene is a hall of famer. I don't know Dee Ford with a healthy and long career would necessary get him there.

This is the best front 7 I have seen with my eyes.

They are stopping QBs dead in their tracks in an age where rules favor passing.

Officials dont even call any holding against opponents anymore because they are trying to give them a chance.

They aren't too shabby against the run either

Originally posted by libertyforever:

I agree Stubblefield was overrated. But he still had to have a ridiculously great year to be the DPOY, even if he played next to Bryant Young. You can't be not great to win the DPOY.

Kevin Greene is a hall of famer. I don't know Dee Ford with a healthy and long career would necessary get him there.

From what I've seen from Ford's games, I think he's equal to Greene's 97 season. But overall, I agree Greene had the better career.

Originally posted by Tigerlaw:

This is the best front 7 I have seen with my eyes.

They are stopping QBs dead in their tracks in an age where rules favor passing.

Officials dont even call any holding against opponents anymore because they are trying to give them a chance.

They aren't too shabby against the run either

Front 7, I would take 2012 49ers over 2019. The 2012 LBs + Justin Smith. 5 all pro in the front 7 was simply ridiculous.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Which DL is better?

1997 DL:
Bryant Young
Dana Stubblefield
Chris Doleman
Kevin Greene
Roy Barker
Junior Bryant

This is Season. Most of those cats are just names at that point. Minus BY.
Greene, Doleman were far from being in their prime. Barker and Bryant were serviceable but I'll take Jone, Blair over them.
BY was such a savage.
Stubby was all roided up

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Lott94:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

I agree Bosa > Doleman

Stubblefield DPOY >> Armstead

Bryant Young = Buckner

Greene >> Ford

Barker = DJ Jones as the starter in the base defense. That is hard to assess because they play different position.

Depth 2019 > 1997

Base on this it is about equal, maybe 97 DL has a slight edge. I don't know how the 2019 DL can be way better than the 1997 DL

IMO Stubblefield is slightly overrated. Stubby capitalized on Young absorbing double teams playing that cocked nose position.

I know you don't win every battle, but Ogden as a rookie playing guard erased Stubblefield when they played.
Also when GB played 49ers in the playoffs a guard making his first start, Stubby was quoted saying "Fresh meat". Sadly you didn't hear a thing from Stubby that game.

Don't get me wrong, Stubby was very good, but not Sapp or Randle level.

Young > Buckner
Healthy Ford = Greene

I agree Stubblefield was overrated. But he still had to have a ridiculously great year to be the DPOY, even if he played next to Bryant Young. You can't be not great to win the DPOY.

Kevin Greene is a hall of famer. I don't know Dee Ford with a healthy and long career would necessary get him there.

He had such a great year because he was all juiced up

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by jimrat:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
This years line is much more impactful and disruptive.

The comparison should be with 1975 gold rush webb/hart/hardman/elam.

1984 with Dean, Big hands Johnson, Board, Manu, Stucky, these guys caused a lot of caos.

Not like now.

I've been watching the niners on tv since 1970. I can't recall any combination of scheme/players which has put more red shirts in the pocket more often from more directions than this year's edition.

On many plays it looks like at least one guy is blocked by invisible jello.

The pocket is hardly ever regular or comfortable for the quarterback to step up and get out a throw in any direction.

Even for the gold rush, the pressure usually came from the ends.

Here's, it's from anywhere.

I appreciate your insight. I've never seen a pocket destriyed that often, from so many places so often. It's the reason why I think we should make a run at AA if he is willing to take a discount because I think we can get 2 more years out of all of these guys. Granted we can't keep everyone forever, but I think going a couple more seasons is realistic. Everyone makes everyone else's job so much easier . The moment any of those guys goes elsewhere, expect regular double teams and offenses game planning around stopping them. Their dominance in the first half of the season had me worried that there would be a run on OL by NFC West and NFC playoff teams and there would no no guys left for us to take. Of course the one positive is that it would push some 1st round talent down the board. The other scary thing about the current Dline is that no one is 30. Or next year for that matter.