Better team 2019 or 2012?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
If they win the Superbowl, 2019 is better

pretty much lol .

but i'll take our offense now anyday, Defense is a toss up for me. love them both.

In some manners the choices are easy, in others it's not so easy as the schemes are different and thus the players involved fit their specific scheme and may not fit the other scheme. I take scheme fit into account.

F/O: 2019 (By far)
HC: 2019 (By far)
QB: 2019 (By far)
RB: Even
TE: 2019
WR: Even
OL: Even
DL: 2019
LB: 2012
CB: 2019
S: Even
K: 2019
P: Even

Originally posted by Niner_N_Caroliner:

He's technically a backup, though he has been playing more snaps than Dee Ford since Fords injury and return. But either one I would take over Aldon Smith (though Aldon was very good as well)

You sit Day and put Buck and Arik at DTs with Ford and Bosa at ends.

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:
In some manners the choices are easy, in others it's not so easy as the schemes are different and thus the players involved fit their specific scheme and may not fit the other scheme. I take scheme fit into account.

F/O: 2019 (By far)
HC: 2019 (By far)
QB: 2019 (By far)
RB: Even
TE: 2019
WR: Even
OL: Even
DL: 2019
LB: 2012
CB: 2019
S: Even
K: 2019
P: Even

Its really hard to compare DL vs DL and LB vs LB because we switched from a 3-4 to a 4 3.

But if we just talk about front seven you are talking about Justin Smith, Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Isaac Sopoaga and either Aldon Smith or Ahmad Brooks who are better than their 2012 counterpart.

If you told me I had to build a front 7 out of both of those teams I would go:

DE - Justin Smith / Arik Armstead
3Tech DT - DeForrest Buckner / Ray McDonald
1Tech NT - Isaac Sopoaga / Sheldon Day
RUSH - Nick Bosa / Dee Ford
ILB - NaVorro Bowman / Kwon Alexander
ILB - Patrick Willis / Fred Warner
OLB - Aldon Smith / Ahmad Brooks

That would be 5 starters in the front 7 for the 2012 squad.

Originally posted by Niner_N_Caroliner:

RT - Anthony Davis or Mike McGlinchey

What do you guys think?

Originally posted by Lott94:
You sit Day and put Buck and Arik at DTs with Ford and Bosa at ends.

Yeah, you could. We do

Originally posted by billbird2111:

I think McGlinchy has a ton of upside and he really impressed me as a rookie. He has had some up and down moments this year IMO. Anthony Davis was a very underrated player. Had he not retired early he would have become a pro-bowl caliber player himself.

People forget how good that OL and running game was. They could pull and just absolutely road grade defenses. Thats the best OL we have had since the early 90's. This line is solid too, but not like that one.

This is probably the most complete 49er team I've seen since the 1985 Super Bowl winner.

That team did not have a weak spot and proved it all season long. The 2019 squad has blown through some pretty quality opponents. Out of all the Super Bowl lineups I've been a witness too, and I've witnessed all of them, 2019 is very comparable to 1984-1985. And that 1985 team didn't have Jerry Rice yet.

Originally posted by Niner_N_Caroliner:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

I think McGlinchy has a ton of upside and he really impressed me as a rookie. He has had some up and down moments this year IMO. Anthony Davis was a very underrated player. Had he not retired early he would have become a pro-bowl caliber player himself.

People forget how good that OL and running game was. They could pull and just absolutely road grade defenses. Thats the best OL we have had since the early 90's. This line is solid too, but not like that one.

AD wasn't bad. But he wasn't the road grader that McGlinchey has become. He may have been a better pass blocker. But there's no way I'd put AD ahead of McGlinchey or Staley at this point. I think you made a good selection with Iupati. Like McGlinchey, Iupati could open up freeway lanes for Frank Gore.

Originally posted by socalniner:

Shanny > Harbaugh

Plus, this team just plays better together. No more locker room rumors and all the other distracting crap.

But talent wise, yeah I pretty much agree with your assessment.

How many delay of game penalties has this years team committed(not on purpose)?
How many failed challenges?
How many temper tantrums on the sideline from the head coach?

Originally posted by Niner_N_Caroliner:

Yeah, you could. We do

I wondering cuz you said Bosa was technically a back up.

Originally posted by Lott94:
I wondering cuz you said Bosa was technically a back up.

He is. Technically Bosa is Dee Ford's backup. But yes he plays more snaps than Dee Ford or Sheldon day who are technically considered 1st team

Originally posted by Niner_N_Caroliner:

I tend to think the 2012 team was more talented but this team really seems to be cohesive and Shanahan's play calling is on another level.

Just looking at the lineups: (Bold indicates the player I believe to be better)

QB - Colin Kaepernick or Jimmy Garoppolo
RB - Frank Gore or Raheem Mostert
FB - Bruce Miller or Kyle Juszczyk
WR - Michael Crabtree / Randy Moss or Deebo Samuel / Manny Sanders
TE - Vernon Davis or George Kittle
LT - Joe Staley '12 or Joe Staley '19
LG - Mike Iupati or Laken Tomlinson
C - Jonathan Goodwin or Ben Garland
RG - Alex Boone or Mike Person
RT - Anthony Davis or Mike McGlinchey

DE - Justin Smith or Arik Armstead
NT - Isaac Sopoaga or Sheldon Day
DT/DE - Ray McDonald or DeForrest Buckner
RUSH - Aldon Smith or Dee Ford
SAM/SILB - NaVorro Bowman or Kwon Alexander
MIKE/WILB - Patrick Willis or Fred Werner
WILL - Ahmad Brooks or Dre Greenlaw
CB - Carlos Rogers/Tarell Brown or Richard Sherman/Emmanuel Mosley
FS - Dashon Goldson or Jimmie Ward
SS - Donte Whitner or Jaquiski Tartt

What do you guys think?

Ahhm where is Bosa?

It's 2019 team due to Kyle.

Originally posted by Niner_N_Caroliner:
I tend to think the 2012 team was more talented but this team really seems to be cohesive and Shanahan's play calling is on another level.

Just looking at the lineups: (Bold indicates the player I believe to be better)

QB - Colin Kaepernick or Jimmy Garoppolo
RB - Frank Gore or Raheem Mostert
FB - Bruce Miller or Kyle Juszczyk
WR - Michael Crabtree / Randy Moss or Deebo Samuel / Manny Sanders
TE - Vernon Davis or George Kittle
LT - Joe Staley '12 or Joe Staley '19
LG - Mike Iupati or Laken Tomlinson
C - Jonathan Goodwin or Ben Garland
RG - Alex Boone or Mike Person
RT - Anthony Davis or Mike McGlinchey

DE - Justin Smith or Arik Armstead
NT - Isaac Sopoaga or Sheldon Day
DT/DE - Ray McDonald or DeForrest Buckner
RUSH - Aldon Smith or Dee Ford
SAM/SILB - NaVorro Bowman or Kwon Alexander
MIKE/WILB - Patrick Willis or Fred Werner
WILL - Ahmad Brooks or Dre Greenlaw
CB - Carlos Rogers/Tarell Brown or Richard Sherman/Emmanuel Mosley
FS - Dashon Goldson or Jimmie Ward
SS - Donte Whitner or Jaquiski Tartt

What do you guys think?

I disagree on many of these... and in some cases, the difference is minimal. Also, hard to compare because of very different defensive schemes.

WR - Crabtee and Moss were not as good as Deebo and Sanders. Moss was way past his prime. Crabtree is the best WR of the 4 (at that point in time), but as pairs of starting WRs, I'd take 2019 Deebo and Sanders.

LG - Laken Tomlinson is better than Iupati, who was never a good pass blocker and only excelled as a straight ahead run blocker.
RT - McGlinchey is better than Davis.
Overall I'd say we easily have a better OL in 2019 than in 2012.

Defense is very hard to compare because we ran different schemes. Overall, I'd say 2019 is much better against the passing game. 2012 was better against the run. The only position group from 2012 that I would pick over our 2019 group is ILB. Willis and Bowman were all-time greats and are ultimately what made that 2012 defense so good.

FS/SS - Tartt and Ward are better safeties than Goldson and Whitner, considering that the primary job of a safety is to cover in the passing game. Sure, Goldson and Whitner were fierce in the running game, but they would get burned for long passes.

CB - I was never impressed with Carlos Rogers. I'd take Sherman and Mosley.

Originally posted by billbird2111:
AD wasn't bad. But he wasn't the road grader that McGlinchey has become. He may have been a better pass blocker. But there's no way I'd put AD ahead of McGlinchey or Staley at this point. I think you made a good selection with Iupati. Like McGlinchey, Iupati could open up freeway lanes for Frank Gore.

Yeah, I have just been a little disappointed in McGlinchey this year. I will say I expect he will develop into a better player than Davis, but David in 2012 was a bit further along than McGlinchey in 2012 (some of it due to injury)