City Council Decides to Terminate 49ers Stadium Contract for NFL Games

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
NFL's Royalty ownership believe in Divine Right of Kings when it comes to their Fiefdoms. Pay for your own Stadium and do whatever you wish. Most of the franchises use false representation, such as the SF 49ers, really Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets really New Jersey. Get real and pay your way NFL, the product is getting watered down each year.

So it's the NFL`s fault that they are insanely popular? People need to stop acting like having a local NFL team is an entitlement and not a privelige.

Not everyone involved wants to pay large numbers of their taxpayer dollars for that "privilege".

Then Santa Clara shouldn't have brought the team in if enough people didnt want it. People pay for taxes that doesn't directly benefit themselves all the time. Do you also feel like you shouldn't have your taxes going towards public schools you dont have children in?

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
NFL's Royalty ownership believe in Divine Right of Kings when it comes to their Fiefdoms. Pay for your own Stadium and do whatever you wish. Most of the franchises use false representation, such as the SF 49ers, really Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets really New Jersey. Get real and pay your way NFL, the product is getting watered down each year.

So it's the NFL`s fault that they are insanely popular? People need to stop acting like having a local NFL team is an entitlement and not a privelige.

Not everyone involved wants to pay large numbers of their taxpayer dollars for that "privilege".

Then Santa Clara shouldn't have brought the team in if enough people didnt want it. People pay for taxes that doesn't directly benefit themselves all the time. Do you also feel like you shouldn't have your taxes going towards public schools you dont have children in?

Are my education tax dollars going into Denise DeBartolo's pocket?

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
NFL's Royalty ownership believe in Divine Right of Kings when it comes to their Fiefdoms. Pay for your own Stadium and do whatever you wish. Most of the franchises use false representation, such as the SF 49ers, really Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets really New Jersey. Get real and pay your way NFL, the product is getting watered down each year.

So it's the NFL`s fault that they are insanely popular? People need to stop acting like having a local NFL team is an entitlement and not a privelige.

Not everyone involved wants to pay large numbers of their taxpayer dollars for that "privilege".

Then Santa Clara shouldn't have brought the team in if enough people didnt want it. People pay for taxes that doesn't directly benefit themselves all the time. Do you also feel like you shouldn't have your taxes going towards public schools you dont have children in?

Are my education tax dollars going into Denise DeBartolo's pocket?

As far as voting to approve the deal, Santa Clarans who voted for it were heavily influenced by the amount of money with which the franchise schmoozed them. I'm not going to look up anything, but IIRC the amount of money the team flooded the city with to influence the election was astounding. Please don't try to tell me that advertising dollars don't influence people, either. I've heard that one before.

The city is not trying to back out of the deal in any case. I don't know where any of you got that. All they're doing is trying to force the franchise to adhere to the contract, which they now contend the franchise is not.

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

NFL's Royalty ownership believe in Divine Right of Kings when it comes to their Fiefdoms. Pay for your own Stadium and do whatever you wish. Most of the franchises use false representation, such as the SF 49ers, really Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets really New Jersey. Get real and pay your way NFL, the product is getting watered down each year.

So it's the NFL`s fault that they are insanely popular? People need to stop acting like having a local NFL team is an entitlement and not a privelige.

Not everyone involved wants to pay large numbers of their taxpayer dollars for that "privilege".

Then Santa Clara shouldn't have brought the team in if enough people didnt want it. People pay for taxes that doesn't directly benefit themselves all the time. Do you also feel like you shouldn't have your taxes going towards public schools you dont have children in?

Only the 49ers benefitted. Educating kids benefits society.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
NFL's Royalty ownership believe in Divine Right of Kings when it comes to their Fiefdoms. Pay for your own Stadium and do whatever you wish. Most of the franchises use false representation, such as the SF 49ers, really Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets really New Jersey. Get real and pay your way NFL, the product is getting watered down each year.

So it's the NFL`s fault that they are insanely popular? People need to stop acting like having a local NFL team is an entitlement and not a privelige.

Not everyone involved wants to pay large numbers of their taxpayer dollars for that "privilege".

Then Santa Clara shouldn't have brought the team in if enough people didnt want it. People pay for taxes that doesn't directly benefit themselves all the time. Do you also feel like you shouldn't have your taxes going towards public schools you dont have children in?

Only the 49ers benefitted. Educating kids benefits society.

Local businesses aren't benefiting? Property values aren't benefiting? Sounds like you feel entitled to having a local NFL team without having to pay for the benefits....since you don't want to recognize them. Do you not believe that the NFL benefits society?

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RTFirefly:

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

NFL's Royalty ownership believe in Divine Right of Kings when it comes to their Fiefdoms. Pay for your own Stadium and do whatever you wish. Most of the franchises use false representation, such as the SF 49ers, really Santa Clara, NY Giants and Jets really New Jersey. Get real and pay your way NFL, the product is getting watered down each year.

So it's the NFL`s fault that they are insanely popular? People need to stop acting like having a local NFL team is an entitlement and not a privelige.

Not everyone involved wants to pay large numbers of their taxpayer dollars for that "privilege".

Then Santa Clara shouldn't have brought the team in if enough people didnt want it. People pay for taxes that doesn't directly benefit themselves all the time. Do you also feel like you shouldn't have your taxes going towards public schools you dont have children in?

Only the 49ers benefitted. Educating kids benefits society.

Local businesses aren't benefiting? Property values aren't benefiting? Sounds like you feel entitled to having a local NFL team without having to pay for the benefits....since you don't want to recognize them. Do you not believe that the NFL benefits society?

Property values? No. The prooerty values ars sky hugh here without a stadium.

What local businesses are benefitting, the Togos sandwich shop? There are no bars or restaurants in the area.

Truthfully, several huge tech company campuses and high density housing complexes would benefit the city and people more.

The NFL does not provide much benefit society nor does a billion dollar industry need to be subsidized in the Bay Area.

Originally posted by walker807:

Local businesses aren't benefiting? Property values aren't benefiting? Sounds like you feel entitled to having a local NFL team without having to pay for the benefits....since you don't want to recognize them. Do you not believe that the NFL benefits society?

Economists and other academics studied it extensively and concluded that paying for team's stadiums is about as unproductive of a use of public funds that you can come up with.

It was from all this research that city governments began to decline providing welfare to professional sports owners from the city coffers, and why professional sports teams have finally had to start paying for their own profit generating complexes (warriors and giants), or move to locales that are dumb enough to burn money on them (Las Vegas and Santa Clara).

NM

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by walker807:

Local businesses aren't benefiting? Property values aren't benefiting? Sounds like you feel entitled to having a local NFL team without having to pay for the benefits....since you don't want to recognize them. Do you not believe that the NFL benefits society?

Economists and other academics studied it extensively and concluded that paying for team's stadiums is about as unproductive of a use of public funds that you can come up with.

It was from all this research that city governments began to decline providing welfare to professional sports owners from the city coffers, and why professional sports teams have finally had to start paying for their own profit generating complexes (warriors and giants), or move to locales that are dumb enough to burn money on them (Las Vegas and Santa Clara).

There's always counter arguments and studies paid for by both sides.

The area in SF from AT&T park to the Chase center is looking pretty good. Property values changed there and went from industrial to commercial and residential. I think the stadiums were primarily private financed, but the City spent on local transportation. Seemed like a good partnership.

I'm sure it will get resolved. Both parties will want it done. If CA becomes too much of a burden for a stadium and for players paying more taxes, I'd love for the team to move to Youngstown OH. Im close enough that i could get season tickets there.

Originally posted by RTFirefly:
The city is not trying to back out of the deal in any case. I don't know where any of you got that. All they're doing is trying to force the franchise to adhere to the contract, which they now contend the franchise is not.

There is much more to be gained by settling than forcing the team out of town.

The tough thing is the fact that so many people questioned the city/county's involvement in the first place that this is now going to fire up all that angst all over again. That stuff impacts judges and it may cost the 49ers more than they will want to pay if the city proves its case.

Let's fact it, Bay Area politics does not look favorably on ultra-rich people getting richer, especially when it comes to a non-essential product like football. While there is clearly much more to be learned, this may get messy.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Property values? No. The prooerty values ars sky hugh here without a stadium.

What local businesses are benefitting, the Togos sandwich shop? There are no bars or restaurants in the area.

Truthfully, several huge tech company campuses and high density housing complexes would benefit the city and people more.

The NFL does not provide much benefit society nor does a billion dollar industry need to be subsidized in the Bay Area.

There are several hotels in the area that benefit when there's a concert and possibly when they play night games. People come from out of the area and don't want to travel home late. The Hilton which is in walking distance was booked solid when the Grateful Dead were there. There are lot's of small eateries really close across Great America Parkway. There are restaurants in the hotels and I know there's a Pedro's within a mile or so. I don't know if Birk's is still there. I have no idea how many people actually go to any of these places but there are way more than there was in SF.

Originally posted by dj43:

There is much more to be gained by settling than forcing the team out of town.

The tough thing is the fact that so many people questioned the city/county's involvement in the first place that this is now going to fire up all that angst all over again. That stuff impacts judges and it may cost the 49ers more than they will want to pay if the city proves its case.

Let's fact it, Bay Area politics does not look favorably on ultra-rich people getting richer, especially when it comes to a non-essential product like football. While there is clearly much more to be learned, this may get messy.

Football a non-essential product? What planet you live on?

Originally posted by mitpdub:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by walker807:

Local businesses aren't benefiting? Property values aren't benefiting? Sounds like you feel entitled to having a local NFL team without having to pay for the benefits....since you don't want to recognize them. Do you not believe that the NFL benefits society?

Economists and other academics studied it extensively and concluded that paying for team's stadiums is about as unproductive of a use of public funds that you can come up with.

It was from all this research that city governments began to decline providing welfare to professional sports owners from the city coffers, and why professional sports teams have finally had to start paying for their own profit generating complexes (warriors and giants), or move to locales that are dumb enough to burn money on them (Las Vegas and Santa Clara).

There's always counter arguments and studies paid for by both sides.

The area in SF from AT&T park to the Chase center is looking pretty good. Property values changed there and went from industrial to commercial and residential. I think the stadiums were primarily private financed, but the City spent on local transportation. Seemed like a good partnership.

Cities paying to expand local transportation networks for privately financed stadiums is totally reasonable and makes a lot of sense, imo.

FWIW the research I was referring to wasn't the paid consultant work, but rather the peer reviewed independent academic work done to fairly study the question.

As I recall this was a hot topic in urban planning and public policy circles in the late 90s and 2Ks, but as far as I know the research on it has kind of died out because everyone kept independently finding that it was a really, really bad use of public funds, and it's not really an open research question any more.

It was really on the back of all the settled independent research that local governments started telling sports teams to eff off when they threatened to leave if they didn't get hundreds of millions dollars in welfare, and why we've seen a big move to privately financed stadiums and teams moving around to the nearest rube who will pay for their profit generation with public money.