Originally posted by btthepunk:
He's more Deebo than Pettis when it comes to toughness.
I hope so. The problem is the PAC 12 defenses have been very weak the last few years. I t makes it hard to tell how good some of these guys are when they are playing against slower, less physical players. It's no surprise that there were zero PAC 12 defensive players taken in round 1. It's one reason I have questions about Herbert. Big with a strong arm but he played a mostly weak non league schedule and rarely saw his receivers matched up against top DBs. They're all in the SEC and Big 10.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Question on Pac-12. My biggest concern of drafting Pettis was his tape never had anybody physically challenged him, free releases and some of the worst coverage I've ever seen...got to the NFL and curled up in the fetal position.
Was Aiyuk challenged hard? Much better tape? No physicality concerns?
I would say he has earned his spot and has a lot of dawg in his game, but as you said, its hard to compare pac12 defenses to SEC.
As a Sun Devil fan, I was worried about being able to replace Harry after he was drafted last year. Aiyuk made some flash plays last year, but was mostly buried on the depth chart. He also was a juco transfer who had to wait, so he has some good experience learning from good players. I was worried though because ASUs QB is a true freshman, and their OL is horrible.
I couldn't have been more surprised at how he stepped up. He really took on the leadership role and became the go-to guy in the passing game.
He could work on consistency in his route running, but overall, he does the little things like head fakes and jab steps to setup DBs and burn them. He is also very tough over the middle. I think we will be very happy he is here in the long run, but we will see how it goes.
What excellent starters do you think will be available in round 5?
Kittle was a 5th
He's an exception. That doesn't happen often. You're acting like it's a fact that there's excellent starters in this draft in the 5th round. Yes it's a deep WR class but that's still only about 10 players that are worthy of going in the top 2 rounds.
Dre Greenlaw
Yes, we all know there have been picks in the later rounds that turn out to be good players. We needed to add top end talent, not build depth. Aiyuk is rated higher coming out of college than Sanders any of our current wide receivers.
Isn't that what they did? Not sure of your point
Yes. I'm saying it was worth it to trade up. We didn't need the picks in the later rounds.
Thanks for confirmation, I agree, only so many spots available on a super bowl roster
Originally posted by NCommand:
Question on Pac-12. My biggest concern of drafting Pettis was his tape never had anybody physically challenged him, free releases and some of the worst coverage I've ever seen...got to the NFL and curled up in the fetal position.
Was Aiyuk challenged hard? Much better tape? No physicality concerns?
He's more Deebo than Pettis when it comes to toughness.
That's good because the X demands that.
Well if there's a flaw to Aiyuk's draft stock its 100% the lack of competition and lack of production against good competition. Numbers in parantheses are pass defense rankings, 130 is the worst in the league.
His best numbers came from Kent State, Sac St, Colorado (123), Washington State (114), Oregon State (117) and Oregon (53). He also played against UCLA (129th) and Arizona (126th), Cal (112), USC (96).
Oregon is by far the best game of Aiyuk's career when adjusted to competition.
Aiyuk's competition wasn't simply weak, it may have been the softest competition any Power 5 top WR prospect faced. The 2 best pass D's he faced were Utah and Michigan State were he didn't produce.
Now of course there's a flip side to that. We had one of the worst OC's in college football, a true freshman QB, and our OL was a giant sieve against any decent defense. For example, vs Utah it wasn't Aiyuk's fault he didn't produce, Utah's DL completely murdered the QB before he could take a one-step drop.
I think if Aiyuk went to a lot of teams in the NFL he'd probably flop because he isn't a great route runner and doesn't generate separation. I think Kyle Shanahan's system is ideal for Aiyuk because once the ball is in his hands he is tremendous. If you follow KS's schemes and WRs he likes, he really DGAF about WRs generating separation, he wants a lethal player with the ball in their hands.
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Apr 24, 2020 at 9:50 AM ]
That's an old calculator that under values rd 4-7 picks,
the football guys calculator is better (link on top of draft forum) says we gave up a little too much
Penny wise, pound foolish. What matters is that they got the guys they wanted. No?
Question on Pac-12. My biggest concern of drafting Pettis was his tape never had anybody physically challenged him, free releases and some of the worst coverage I've ever seen...got to the NFL and curled up in the fetal position.
Was Aiyuk challenged hard? Much better tape? No physicality concerns?
He's more Deebo than Pettis when it comes to toughness.
That's good because the X demands that.
Well if there's a flaw to Aiyuk's draft stock its 100% the lack of competition and lack of production against good competition. Numbers in parantheses are pass defense rankings, 130 is the worst in the league.
His best numbers came from Kent State, Sac St, Colorado (123), Washington State (114), Oregon State (117) and Oregon (53). He also played against UCLA (129th) and Arizona (126th), Cal (112), USC (96).
Oregon is by far the best game of Aiyuk's career when adjusted to competition.
Aiyuk's competition wasn't simply weak, it may have been the softest competition any Power 5 top WR prospect faced. The 2 best pass D's he faced were Utah and Michigan State were he didn't produce.
Now of course there's a flip side to that. We had one of the worst OC's in college football, a true freshman QB, and our OL was a giant sieve against any decent defense. For example, vs Utah it wasn't Aiyuk's fault he didn't produce, Utah's DL completely murdered the QB before he could take a one-step drop.
I think if Aiyuk went to a lot of teams in the NFL he'd probably flop because he isn't a great route runner and doesn't generate separation. I think Kyle Shanahan's system is ideal for Aiyuk because once the ball is in his hands he is tremendous. If you follow KS's schemes and WRs he likes, he really DGAF about WRs generating separation, he wants a lethal player with the ball in their hands.
I dunno about that. Yes he wants the latter, but I think he still cares about someone being able to get open one on one. At some point you need playmakers to take over when the defense has an answer for what you're doing schematically.
Time will tell how Aiyuk fares against the other WRs we passed on at 14. But at this point I have a hard time saying Jeudy or Lamb Would 100% have a bigger impact in this offense. Outside of a height difference which is mitigated by Aiyuks wingspan, we got the more explosive player.
Originally posted by thl408:
I don't think the Packers were taking Aiyuk. If that was true, then we're implying the Packers were sitting at #30, Aiyuk gets drafted at #25, then the Packers scramble to move up (to #26) to pick Rodgers' successor.
"Crap they took the WR we wanted to help Rodgers, better take Rodgers' replacement now". That doesn't make sense. GB was in love with Love.
The best guess I have is they thought MIA (sitting at #26) was going to pick Aiyuk to pair with Tua, so the 49ers felt they had to get in front of MIA. Of the teams drafting before #31 (49ers original pick), I don't think SEA, BAL, TEN were selecting a WR (they have good young WRs). It had to MIA imo.
This
Matt Barrows Twitter The #49ers said WR Brandon Aiyuk became a hot name late in the draft process and that their "intel" told them there was no way he'd last until pick 31. The team they were most concerned about: The #Dolphins at pick No. 26. After SF took Aiyuk, Miami traded out of their spot.
Aiyuk's stiffest competition when he produced was Oregon. The main DB on Aiyuk was Thomas Graham who was a the #11 ranked CB in the nation out of highschool. Graham will probably a later rounder next year and last year was hovering around All-PAC 12 honors. So he isn't a first round prospect, but he's no chump.
On the video:
0:21 - You'll see the DB close on Aiyuk (no press), Aiyuk sells his route to the outside to get DB's hips to flip, and slants inside for 1st down for 9 yard again.
0:27 - You'll see Aiyuk do the opposite of the last play, studders like he will slant inside and then takes it deep outside, ball is underthrown and he adjusts for a catch. Could have easily been a 50 yard+ gain had QB not underthrown
0:37 - Aiyuk lined up in slot, S Holland is on him in coverage. Holland is All PAC-12 and projected as a 2nd round pick next year. Aiyuk's route breaks Holland's ankles, wiiiiide open
1:12 - Aiyuk does some really pretty footwork to generate separation for a 1st done.
1:44 - Watch Aiyuk on the replay completely burn the guy trying to cover him (I think its Holland again). Makes the coverage completely whiff on him
4:00 - Punt return by Aiyuk. What I like about the return is its North-South, all positive yardage baby, he does not tend to dance around or go horizontal
4:40 - Now this is some fun stuff to watch, best play of Aiyuk's career. ASU up by 3 late in 4th, Oregon storming back and its 2nd and 9 as ASU is pinned. Aiyuk tries to run a button hook and cant get open. 3rd and 16 on next play, he fakes the button hook and runs an out route for 80+ yard TD to essentially win the game, the DB on him was 2nd team all PAC-12
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Apr 24, 2020 at 10:12 AM ]
I don't think the Packers were taking Aiyuk. If that was true, then we're implying the Packers were sitting at #30, Aiyuk gets drafted at #25, then the Packers scramble to move up (to #26) to pick Rodgers' successor.
"Crap they took the WR we wanted to help Rodgers, better take Rodgers' replacement now". That doesn't make sense. GB was in love with Love.
The best guess I have is they thought MIA (sitting at #26) was going to pick Aiyuk to pair with Tua, so the 49ers felt they had to get in front of MIA. Of the teams drafting before #31 (49ers original pick), I don't think SEA, BAL, TEN were selecting a WR (they have good young WRs). It had to MIA imo.
This
Matt Barrows Twitter The #49ers said WR Brandon Aiyuk became a hot name late in the draft process and that their "intel" told them there was no way he'd last until pick 31. The team they were most concerned about: The #Dolphins at pick No. 26. After SF took Aiyuk, Miami traded out of their spot.
This makes more sense than GB gearing up to take em.