All Pro OT Trent Williams "Silverback",

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Some of the replies in here.

"The OL is already bad so it's okay if we lose Trent Williams"

Some people have said he didn't play at an elite level this year. I have to wonder what an elite level looks like to those who don't think Trent played at an elite level

He played at an elite level? Really? He got creamed. What games were you watching? They must not have been the same games I was looking at.

The games I watched featured our first and second string quarterbacks getting hammered so hard, both were lost to injury. It was the same story with our first, second and third string running backs.

If those injuries are your example of "elite play," I guess we will agree to disagree.

And your blaming Trent who in 14 games only gave up 4 sacks for the QBs being creamed. In no way am I saying our pass protection was good this year. But Trent is part of the solution to fixing that issue. You don't let him go and then risk having 2 McGlinchey level tackles out there.

I agree. Keep Trent Williams. A lot of the OLine problems will go away (not all of them of course) once Jimmy comes back healthy 100%. The offense is predicated on reading the defense and throwing within 2.5 seconds. Go beyond that and it's sack city. I think it's more the system that Kyle runs vs the OLIne talent. That's why the Run game in Kyles system is so important. The play action pass will almost always result in a good read within 2.5 seconds if you have a dangerous RB manning that position.

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Some of the replies in here.

"The OL is already bad so it's okay if we lose Trent Williams"

Some people have said he didn't play at an elite level this year. I have to wonder what an elite level looks like to those who don't think Trent played at an elite level

He played at an elite level? Really? He got creamed. What games were you watching? They must not have been the same games I was looking at.

The games I watched featured our first and second string quarterbacks getting hammered so hard, both were lost to injury. It was the same story with our first, second and third string running backs.

If those injuries are your example of "elite play," I guess we will agree to disagree.

And your blaming Trent who in 14 games only gave up 4 sacks for the QBs being creamed. In no way am I saying our pass protection was good this year. But Trent is part of the solution to fixing that issue. You don't let him go and then risk having 2 McGlinchey level tackles out there.

McGlinchey had an off year. I think we can agree on that point. Part of it was his fault. Part of it wasn't.

Shanny and Lynch have built this team through the draft and a few low-profile (cheap) free agent finds. They should not abandon this philosophy.

So you're making an excuse for McGlinchey but hands down our best offensive player this year needs to GTFO. I can't

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Some of the replies in here.

"The OL is already bad so it's okay if we lose Trent Williams"

Some people have said he didn't play at an elite level this year. I have to wonder what an elite level looks like to those who don't think Trent played at an elite level

He played at an elite level? Really? He got creamed. What games were you watching? They must not have been the same games I was looking at.

The games I watched featured our first and second string quarterbacks getting hammered so hard, both were lost to injury. It was the same story with our first, second and third string running backs.

If those injuries are your example of "elite play," I guess we will agree to disagree.

And your blaming Trent who in 14 games only gave up 4 sacks for the QBs being creamed. In no way am I saying our pass protection was good this year. But Trent is part of the solution to fixing that issue. You don't let him go and then risk having 2 McGlinchey level tackles out there.

I agree. Keep Trent Williams. A lot of the OLine problems will go away (not all of them of course) once Jimmy comes back healthy 100%. The offense is predicated on reading the defense and throwing within 2.5 seconds. Go beyond that and it's sack city. I think it's more the system that Kyle runs vs the OLIne talent. That's why the Run game in Kyles system is so important. The play action pass will almost always result in a good read within 2.5 seconds if you have a dangerous RB manning that position.

I don't see how it would be possible to keep both Trent and Jimmy

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I don't see how it would be possible to keep both Trent and Jimmy

AB81's worked it out. Basically restructure Ford and Richburg and possibly Jimmy to get Trent signed. Then structure a heavily front loaded contract for Trent to accelerate the potential dead cap money out of the system in future years. If neither Ford nor Richburg are willing to play the restructure game, then just cut them. The cap floor at minimum will go no lower than 175 million (I defer to AB81 for the correct numbers), and as of right now, the 49ers and AB81 are convinced the can sign him to a 20+ million APY number already. It's all good.

I know a lot of folks are worried about cap hell, but generally you can sign one or two players to a blockbuster deal each year without too much problems capwise even if they don't pan out - and still be ok. Key is getting those correctly front loaded contracts to be agreed to by the player and they most often always do agree. It's the Backloaded deals that kill your cap.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I don't see how it would be possible to keep both Trent and Jimmy

AB81's worked it out. Basically restructure Ford and Richburg and possibly Jimmy to get Trent signed. Then structure a heavily front loaded contract for Trent to accelerate the potential dead cap money out of the system in future years. If neither Ford nor Richburg are willing to play the restructure game, then just cut them. The cap floor at minimum will go no lower than 175 million (I defer to AB81 for the correct numbers), and as of right now, the 49ers and AB81 are convinced the can sign him to a 20+ million APY number already. It's all good.

I know a lot of folks are worried about cap hell, but generally you can sign one or two players to a blockbuster deal each year without too much problems capwise even if they don't pan out - and still be ok. Key is getting those correctly front loaded contracts to be agreed to by the player and they most often always do agree. It's the Backloaded deals that kill your cap.

I don't even think either Ford and Richburg will play another snap for the 49ers. I'd even think Ford could contemplate retirement because those back issues are no joke. I'm considering those guys as Post june 1 cuts or trades.
I agree most of the deals would've to be frontloaded because of the cap drop this year.
What I don't want is to lose Juice, Kwaun and others to keep Jimmy G and risk another injury lost season. I want the blockbuster deals to be paid to guys who deserve it: Kittle, Trent Williams, Fred Warner. And not to guys like Mckinnon, Jimmy G, Kwon, Richburg and Ford. Time to spend money on the better players.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Some people have said he didn't play at an elite level this year. I have to wonder what an elite level looks like to those who don't think Trent played at an elite level

We have some of the dumbest fans. The highest graded tackle in the league by multiple metrics. Trent dominated elite players Chandler Jones and Chase Young.

Trent Williams vs. Chase Young was a matchup of two of the most gifted physical specimens in the NFL, but was a one-sided affair that the savvy veteran (Williams) won handily minus one inconsequential rep late in the 4th. pic.twitter.com/74bHItz0po

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) December 15, 2020

#49ers' LT Trent Williams still is very, very good. Here's a bunch of clips of him pass-blocking and run-blocking against Chandler Jones.

If 71 keeps this up, he's going to be an All-Pro and on his way to a big pay-day again. pic.twitter.com/BxrzJwtLVx

— Akash Anavarathan (@akashanav) September 17, 2020

I could pick out "selected clips" that would make Steve DeBerg look like a first ballot Hall of Famer. Selected clips mean absolutely nothing.

TW isn't worth the money. Period. He can be replaced through the draft. And, at a much cheaper price.

lol some dumb fans believe Williams is not worth it? lmao unless you're in position to draft Sewell you pay Williams. These fans who want Williams walk should go watch soccer or something they can actually understand.

That's just Bill's opinion. No need to be rude just because you don't agree.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I don't see how it would be possible to keep both Trent and Jimmy

AB81's worked it out. Basically restructure Ford and Richburg and possibly Jimmy to get Trent signed. Then structure a heavily front loaded contract for Trent to accelerate the potential dead cap money out of the system in future years. If neither Ford nor Richburg are willing to play the restructure game, then just cut them. The cap floor at minimum will go no lower than 175 million (I defer to AB81 for the correct numbers), and as of right now, the 49ers and AB81 are convinced the can sign him to a 20+ million APY number already. It's all good.

I know a lot of folks are worried about cap hell, but generally you can sign one or two players to a blockbuster deal each year without too much problems capwise even if they don't pan out - and still be ok. Key is getting those correctly front loaded contracts to be agreed to by the player and they most often always do agree. It's the Backloaded deals that kill your cap.

I don't even think either Ford and Richburg will play another snap for the 49ers. I'd even think Ford could contemplate retirement because those back issues are no joke. I'm considering those guys as Post june 1 cuts or trades.
I agree most of the deals would've to be frontloaded because of the cap drop this year.
What I don't want is to lose Juice, Kwaun and others to keep Jimmy G and risk another injury lost season. I want the blockbuster deals to be paid to guys who deserve it: Kittle, Trent Williams, Fred Warner. And not to guys like Mckinnon, Jimmy G, Kwon, Richburg and Ford. Time to spend money on the better players.

Well, your sentiment is correct, but the cap doesn't work that way unfortunately. The main idea of the cap is to spread talent evenly across the entire NFL. You just can't keep all your all star players, no matter how you work the cap. Case in point, Buckner. Forgedaboutit. You can delay them leaving if you structure the contract right, but eventually they leave. Key to cap management is drafting well and developing raw players (low round picks and undrafted players) into starters. That's how the Pats did that for a long time - in addition to cheating. Gone are the 1980's when the 49ers had Hall of Fame players backing up Hall of Fame players.

The average SB winner loses about 38 % of it's players the following year. That's total including practice squad. The average years of experience for NFL teams has dropped from 4.8 to 4.3 years. The trend is clearly toward younger, cheaper players, especially for successful teams that have more high paid players. It's the only way to stay competitive and stay under the cap since you can only restructure so much before it bites you.

I just read the article at the top and it says they expect a 4 year deal for about $80 million which would make him the 3rd highest paid tackle in the league. PFF had him rated at 91-3 this year which was the highest among tackles. That doesn't sound like a guy that had a bad season.

I still think Trent will be elite for the next 4 years, and we will have to (and will) pay up. The alternative is taking a chance on an old FA, for draft a tackle not named Sewell. I'd have resentment for Trent for testing the market when he was traded here in good faith but it's gonna cost us more (in terms of o line play) to have to draft his replacement (and have to go further down the draft board for a guard).

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I don't see how it would be possible to keep both Trent and Jimmy

AB81's worked it out. Basically restructure Ford and Richburg and possibly Jimmy to get Trent signed. Then structure a heavily front loaded contract for Trent to accelerate the potential dead cap money out of the system in future years. If neither Ford nor Richburg are willing to play the restructure game, then just cut them. The cap floor at minimum will go no lower than 175 million (I defer to AB81 for the correct numbers), and as of right now, the 49ers and AB81 are convinced the can sign him to a 20+ million APY number already. It's all good.

I know a lot of folks are worried about cap hell, but generally you can sign one or two players to a blockbuster deal each year without too much problems capwise even if they don't pan out - and still be ok. Key is getting those correctly front loaded contracts to be agreed to by the player and they most often always do agree. It's the Backloaded deals that kill your cap.

I don't even think either Ford and Richburg will play another snap for the 49ers. I'd even think Ford could contemplate retirement because those back issues are no joke. I'm considering those guys as Post june 1 cuts or trades.
I agree most of the deals would've to be frontloaded because of the cap drop this year.
What I don't want is to lose Juice, Kwaun and others to keep Jimmy G and risk another injury lost season. I want the blockbuster deals to be paid to guys who deserve it: Kittle, Trent Williams, Fred Warner. And not to guys like Mckinnon, Jimmy G, Kwon, Richburg and Ford. Time to spend money on the better players.

Well, your sentiment is correct, but the cap doesn't work that way unfortunately. The main idea of the cap is to spread talent evenly across the entire NFL. You just can't keep all your all star players, no matter how you work the cap. Case in point, Buckner. Forgedaboutit. You can delay them leaving if you structure the contract right, but eventually they leave. Key to cap management is drafting well and developing raw players (low round picks and undrafted players) into starters. That's how the Pats did that for a long time - in addition to cheating. Gone are the 1980's when the 49ers had Hall of Fame players backing up Hall of Fame players.

I agree there but my point is the mistake this FO has done is to pay big money to players who doesn't deserve it (Kwon, Jimmy, Mckinnon, Richburg, Ford). So the money you spend on dudes who are average or injury prone send it to guys like Kittle, Warner and Williams. In a future perhaps there won't be money to keep Greenlaw or Deebo if you want to keep Bosa, but that's the point of what you mention: draft and develop talent, and replace talent with talent.
Moves like the Buckner trade are needed and it's great value to get a first rounder and get a potential but raw replacement on a new cheap deal.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I just read the article at the top and it says they expect a 4 year deal for about $80 million which would make him the 3rd highest paid tackle in the league. PFF had him rated at 91-3 this year which was the highest among tackles. That doesn't sound like a guy that had a bad season.

Indeed it's something around 20M but they'd have to structure it in a way that 2021 impact is not as bad because of the covid drop.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I just read the article at the top and it says they expect a 4 year deal for about $80 million which would make him the 3rd highest paid tackle in the league. PFF had him rated at 91-3 this year which was the highest among tackles. That doesn't sound like a guy that had a bad season.

Indeed it's something around 20M but they'd have to structure it in a way that 2021 impact is not as bad because of the covid drop.

Back load and pay bonuses. They have ways.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Some of the replies in here.

"The OL is already bad so it's okay if we lose Trent Williams"

Some people have said he didn't play at an elite level this year. I have to wonder what an elite level looks like to those who don't think Trent played at an elite level

He played at an elite level? Really? He got creamed. What games were you watching? They must not have been the same games I was looking at.

The games I watched featured our first and second string quarterbacks getting hammered so hard, both were lost to injury. It was the same story with our first, second and third string running backs.

If those injuries are your example of "elite play," I guess we will agree to disagree.

And your blaming Trent who in 14 games only gave up 4 sacks for the QBs being creamed. In no way am I saying our pass protection was good this year. But Trent is part of the solution to fixing that issue. You don't let him go and then risk having 2 McGlinchey level tackles out there.

McGlinchey had an off year. I think we can agree on that point. Part of it was his fault. Part of it wasn't.

Shanny and Lynch have built this team through the draft and a few low-profile (cheap) free agent finds. They should not abandon this philosophy.

So you're making an excuse for McGlinchey but hands down our best offensive player this year needs to GTFO. I can't

THIS x 10000000000000000