All Pro OT Trent Williams "Silverback",

Originally posted by RDB4216:
No one said they wouild have had to use all their assets on the OL, or that it had to be high picks. But the 49ers have seemed to be locked into a certain type of o-lineman, and won't even look at some that are not perceived to be an ideal scheme fit. Even if that means passing up on more talented players. Just based on players that I liked and picks I wanted us to make, along with some moves we could have easily made - my starting line would have been: Trent Williams (trade) - Trey Smith (6th round pick!) - Landon Dickerson (2nd round) - Robert Hunt (2nd round) - Jordan Mailata (7th round!). Who can argue that isn't massivley better than what we have now? What players would we have lost out on? Jaylon Moore, Aaron Banks (Good player, but Dickerson is better), Trey Sermon (LOL), Julian Taylor, and basically Javon Kinlaw. The move I really wanted us to make that year when Tristan Wirfs was there, would have been trading Mcglinchy while we were on the clock. We could have walked out of there with Wirfs and Robert Hunt, instead of Mcglinchy and Kinlaw.

So yeah, when it comes to drafting GOOD o-linemen, I think the 49ers have missed a lot of easy ones because they were too dead set on zone scheme fit.

that is all hindsight and use of assets (trade)

Trey - Would lose out on Mitchell who was great before injuries
Dickerson - No chance to draft him unless we trade up (assets)
Hunt - Would lose Aiyuk
Mailata - Possible pick.. but we were also in rebuilding mode

Originally posted by RDB4216:
6th and 7th round players don't start off making $20 million on rookie contracts. The point is about drafting better talent over scheme fit. It's not just these particular players I've liked in the past. Last year I liked Dawand Jones, he went in the 4th. He would blow open holes in the run game to the right side, and not force all of our big runs to be telegraphed behind Trent. 49ers probably didn't even look at him because of his athletic scores. Although he DOES have the speed to get to the second level, he will struggle sometimes. To me better talent + ok scheme fit > perfect scheme fit.

while 6th/7th round pick don't make that much in the beginning, they will cost you more later on if they turn into great players.

We didn't even have a 4th round pick to get D Jones unless we trade up (assets)

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade, but we are not at a total loss at OL. Almost every position is set, so we can focus on more OL in the future (as we should)

No way this hold out drags on

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Oscar8325:
What exactly is he asking for? Has that been reported? Didn't he get his contract re-done last year or year before?

I'm sure it's more money lol

HaHa, obviously. I'm guessing more guaranteed cash.

Originally posted by Oscar8325:
HaHa, obviously. I'm guessing more guaranteed cash.

I hope it is just wanting next 2 years with some guarantees, and hashing out the salary cap structure of it.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I agree with this take they reached for Kinlaw due to the loss of Buckner and passed on Wirfs. This was crazy when it happened. We over value what we do on the D line and Kyle keeps thinking we can scheme around a bad O line.

To a certain extent you can scheme around a weak offensive line. I don't recommend it of course. What you can't do is scheme around a defensive weakness. To a certain extent the 49er defense has been weak at the DB squads - and that's been where Patrick has killed us in the big game.

I'd like the 49er OLine to really get bigger and more athletic. They are, because I really like the Puni and Kingston Picks. Bigger (Puni) and very athletic (Kingston) and they devoted two draft picks to the OLIne this year.

For Bass: We had no chance at Wirfs

you can't scheme around a weak OL. Our OL has faced the best of best DLs and only gave up 2 half (0.5) sacks to a DB and DE (not CJ) which adds up to 1 total sack.

Our OL isn't the best, but def not weak

We traded wth Tampa to give them the pick we acquired from the colts for Buckner and picked Wirfs if I remember correctly. The next pick was Kinlaw.

I disagree with the line not being weak, there are worse O lines however if you watch the games we lost with dominate Dline and DCs we all see it. Ravens, Browns and all the playoffs. The DCs are calling blitzes on the right side to bat balls in the air. Purdy is short and needs more time without the right side collapsing. Purdy is our next FQB so we need help on our line.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hangman_52:
Trade him. He can not play for someone else even though he is getting paid so damn much. Greedy and old. Maybe we can get 2 OLine worth a s**t for him

Actually, I hope his cap space is freed up for Purdy.

Purdy won't be Purdy behind that OL without Trent. People are crazy tripping on here.

Come on dude this team has zero idea what the f*** they're doing with the OL and they haven't for a while now. Literally two super bowls we've lost because the OL keeps getting their s*** pushed in by the Chiefs DL.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Come on dude this team has zero idea what the f*** they're doing with the OL and they haven't for a while now. Literally two super bowls we've lost because the OL keeps getting their s*** pushed in by the Chiefs DL.

But why doesn't the Oline ever get credit for help getting them to the SB? If your Oline is good enough to get you to the SB it's good enough to win you a SB.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Hangman_52:
Trade him. He can not play for someone else even though he is getting paid so damn much. Greedy and old. Maybe we can get 2 OLine worth a s**t for him

Actually, I hope his cap space is freed up for Purdy.

Purdy won't be Purdy behind that OL without Trent. People are crazy tripping on here.

Come on dude this team has zero idea what the f*** they're doing with the OL and they haven't for a while now. Literally two super bowls we've lost because the OL keeps getting their s*** pushed in by the Chiefs DL.

Dont forget Aaron Donald in the NFCCG

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I agree with this take they reached for Kinlaw due to the loss of Buckner and passed on Wirfs. This was crazy when it happened. We over value what we do on the D line and Kyle keeps thinking we can scheme around a bad O line.

To a certain extent you can scheme around a weak offensive line. I don't recommend it of course. What you can't do is scheme around a defensive weakness. To a certain extent the 49er defense has been weak at the DB squads - and that's been where Patrick has killed us in the big game.

I'd like the 49er OLine to really get bigger and more athletic. They are, because I really like the Puni and Kingston Picks. Bigger (Puni) and very athletic (Kingston) and they devoted two draft picks to the OLIne this year.

For Bass: We had no chance at Wirfs

you can't scheme around a weak OL. Our OL has faced the best of best DLs and only gave up 2 half (0.5) sacks to a DB and DE (not CJ) which adds up to 1 total sack.

Our OL isn't the best, but def not weak

How did we have no chance at Wirfs? All we had to do was write his name down, I'm pretty sure we have people that could have done that.

And it's not just about sacks given up, we need stronger run blocking across the line. When we want to run out the clock, or if we need a key run, we almost always run behind Trent. The whole defense knows where we are going.

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by bassmanr:
I agree with this take they reached for Kinlaw due to the loss of Buckner and passed on Wirfs. This was crazy when it happened. We over value what we do on the D line and Kyle keeps thinking we can scheme around a bad O line.

To a certain extent you can scheme around a weak offensive line. I don't recommend it of course. What you can't do is scheme around a defensive weakness. To a certain extent the 49er defense has been weak at the DB squads - and that's been where Patrick has killed us in the big game.

I'd like the 49er OLine to really get bigger and more athletic. They are, because I really like the Puni and Kingston Picks. Bigger (Puni) and very athletic (Kingston) and they devoted two draft picks to the OLIne this year.

For Bass: We had no chance at Wirfs

you can't scheme around a weak OL. Our OL has faced the best of best DLs and only gave up 2 half (0.5) sacks to a DB and DE (not CJ) which adds up to 1 total sack.

Our OL isn't the best, but def not weak

How did we have no chance at Wirfs? All we had to do was write his name down, I'm pretty sure we have people that could have done that.

And it's not just about sacks given up, we need stronger run blocking across the line. When we want to run out the clock, or if we need a key run, we almost always run behind Trent. The whole defense knows where we are going.

got it got it.. i forgot about the trade down with TB

TW knows he's the most important guy on this team. If TW holds out the 49ers are dead in the water. If TW retires the 49ers season is over before it even starts. He has the team over a barrel and they have no choice but to pay him what he wants. Get your last bag my friend. Well played.

Originally posted by maximusdecimus:
TW knows he's the most important guy on this team. If TW holds out the 49ers are dead in the water. If TW retires the 49ers season is over before it even starts. He has the team over a barrel and they have no choice but to pay him what he wants. Get your last bag my friend. Well played.

I don't believe this is true...but I also don't want to find out. I'm sure they figure this out but a part of me is pretty annoyed considering how poorly Trent played in the SB.

Hopefully they get the deal done and actually free up more cap space short term...and hopefully Trent keeps playing well enough and long enough not to have us regret it later.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by RDB4216:
No one said they wouild have had to use all their assets on the OL, or that it had to be high picks. But the 49ers have seemed to be locked into a certain type of o-lineman, and won't even look at some that are not perceived to be an ideal scheme fit. Even if that means passing up on more talented players. Just based on players that I liked and picks I wanted us to make, along with some moves we could have easily made - my starting line would have been: Trent Williams (trade) - Trey Smith (6th round pick!) - Landon Dickerson (2nd round) - Robert Hunt (2nd round) - Jordan Mailata (7th round!). Who can argue that isn't massivley better than what we have now? What players would we have lost out on? Jaylon Moore, Aaron Banks (Good player, but Dickerson is better), Trey Sermon (LOL), Julian Taylor, and basically Javon Kinlaw. The move I really wanted us to make that year when Tristan Wirfs was there, would have been trading Mcglinchy while we were on the clock. We could have walked out of there with Wirfs and Robert Hunt, instead of Mcglinchy and Kinlaw.

So yeah, when it comes to drafting GOOD o-linemen, I think the 49ers have missed a lot of easy ones because they were too dead set on zone scheme fit.

that is all hindsight and use of assets (trade)

Trey - Would lose out on Mitchell who was great before injuries
Dickerson - No chance to draft him unless we trade up (assets)
Hunt - Would lose Aiyuk
Mailata - Possible pick.. but we were also in rebuilding mode

Originally posted by RDB4216:
6th and 7th round players don't start off making $20 million on rookie contracts. The point is about drafting better talent over scheme fit. It's not just these particular players I've liked in the past. Last year I liked Dawand Jones, he went in the 4th. He would blow open holes in the run game to the right side, and not force all of our big runs to be telegraphed behind Trent. 49ers probably didn't even look at him because of his athletic scores. Although he DOES have the speed to get to the second level, he will struggle sometimes. To me better talent + ok scheme fit > perfect scheme fit.

while 6th/7th round pick don't make that much in the beginning, they will cost you more later on if they turn into great players.

We didn't even have a 4th round pick to get D Jones unless we trade up (assets)

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade, but we are not at a total loss at OL. Almost every position is set, so we can focus on more OL in the future (as we should)

No, none of it was hindsight. As I said, all were picks and moves I thought we should make "at the time". And I accounted for the assets we would have lost out on, including trades - and that did not include losing Aiyuk. And no we didn't have a 4th last year. I would have taken Jones at the end of the 3rd instead of Latu. The point is, the 49ers pass on quality linemen based on perceived lack of scheme fit. I'd rather draft someone that may struggle to get to the second level sometimes, but can bulldoze a defender into the dirt - than someone who can get downfield, but struggles everywhere else.

Bny your "logic" of later picks costing more later if they turn into great players, then we should just NEVER draft great players because they will "cost more later on". Man, we REALLY screwed up on drafting Brock Purdy then - because he's about to cost a whole lot pretty soon!!

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by RDB4216:
No one said they wouild have had to use all their assets on the OL, or that it had to be high picks. But the 49ers have seemed to be locked into a certain type of o-lineman, and won't even look at some that are not perceived to be an ideal scheme fit. Even if that means passing up on more talented players. Just based on players that I liked and picks I wanted us to make, along with some moves we could have easily made - my starting line would have been: Trent Williams (trade) - Trey Smith (6th round pick!) - Landon Dickerson (2nd round) - Robert Hunt (2nd round) - Jordan Mailata (7th round!). Who can argue that isn't massivley better than what we have now? What players would we have lost out on? Jaylon Moore, Aaron Banks (Good player, but Dickerson is better), Trey Sermon (LOL), Julian Taylor, and basically Javon Kinlaw. The move I really wanted us to make that year when Tristan Wirfs was there, would have been trading Mcglinchy while we were on the clock. We could have walked out of there with Wirfs and Robert Hunt, instead of Mcglinchy and Kinlaw.

So yeah, when it comes to drafting GOOD o-linemen, I think the 49ers have missed a lot of easy ones because they were too dead set on zone scheme fit.

that is all hindsight and use of assets (trade)

Trey - Would lose out on Mitchell who was great before injuries
Dickerson - No chance to draft him unless we trade up (assets)
Hunt - Would lose Aiyuk
Mailata - Possible pick.. but we were also in rebuilding mode

Originally posted by RDB4216:
6th and 7th round players don't start off making $20 million on rookie contracts. The point is about drafting better talent over scheme fit. It's not just these particular players I've liked in the past. Last year I liked Dawand Jones, he went in the 4th. He would blow open holes in the run game to the right side, and not force all of our big runs to be telegraphed behind Trent. 49ers probably didn't even look at him because of his athletic scores. Although he DOES have the speed to get to the second level, he will struggle sometimes. To me better talent + ok scheme fit > perfect scheme fit.

while 6th/7th round pick don't make that much in the beginning, they will cost you more later on if they turn into great players.

We didn't even have a 4th round pick to get D Jones unless we trade up (assets)

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade, but we are not at a total loss at OL. Almost every position is set, so we can focus on more OL in the future (as we should)

No, none of it was hindsight. As I said, all were picks and moves I thought we should make "at the time". And I accounted for the assets we would have lost out on, including trades - and that did not include losing Aiyuk. And no we didn't have a 4th last year. I would have taken Jones at the end of the 3rd instead of Latu. The point is, the 49ers pass on quality linemen based on perceived lack of scheme fit. I'd rather draft someone that may struggle to get to the second level sometimes, but can bulldoze a defender into the dirt - than someone who can get downfield, but struggles everywhere else.

Bny your "logic" of later picks costing more later if they turn into great players, then we should just NEVER draft great players because they will "cost more later on". Man, we REALLY screwed up on drafting Brock Purdy then - because he's about to cost a whole lot pretty soon!!

It is all hind sight or all of those OL would have been picked earlier by different teams. OL are crap shoots after the first 15 picks. No way you should draft OL high over skill, when you have free agency as an option also

also, there is not one person who will say we're screwed for paying a top QB picked in the 7th than overpaying above average OL picked in the 7th

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
It is all hind sight or all of those OL would have been picked earlier by different teams. OL are crap shoots after the first 15 picks. No way you should draft OL high over skill, when you have free agency as an option also

also, there is not one person who will say we're screwed for paying a top QB picked in the 7th than overpaying above average OL picked in the 7th

when you get right down to it this really is another of NCs wins