Niners draft Colton McKivitz | OT West Virginia

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I hear you here, for sure. They gave up are Witherspoon. At least you got Brown this year and an all pro in Hufunga. That helps.

All pros can't come from 5th round though. Only the talent rounds.

McKivitz will become an all pro for us?

Sign me up!

Originally posted by NCommand:
McKivitz will become an all pro for us?

Sign me up!

Probably not. But I won't say it can't happen. Again tho I don't want him to start at tackle.

Which OT picked 99 or later will be an all pro? Call your shot.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
McKivitz will become an all pro for us?

Sign me up!

Probably not. But I won't say it can't happen. Again tho I don't want him to start at tackle.

Which OT picked 99 or later will be an all pro? Call your shot.

Haha. True. Anything can happen. True, you'd prefer Burford. With Poe at RG, that would be a lot of quick, athleticism on that right side.

Tristan Wirfs.

Nobody in this entire draft as the same T's are picked as all pro's every year.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. True. Anything can happen. True, you'd prefer Burford. With Poe at RG, that would be a lot of quick, athleticism on that right side.

Tristan Wirfs.

Nobody in this entire draft as the same T's are picked as all pro's every year.

Well like with Wirfs you'll wait to someone emerges then lament not picking them.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
With regards to veterans, anybody *drafted* - in general - usually is more physically superior than those that are in the undrafted category. You see that a bit in Sam Darnold, where he goes in the first round third pick in the 2018 draft. 49ers had no shot at him in 2018 but they were able to land him later when his contract was over or when he was released. I think the same goes for OLinemen. Laken was a first rounder but he didn't pan out with Detroit and 49ers got him with a fifth round pick. So by waiting you can get some of these hidden gems that were let go by crappy teams that can't coach the Offensive Line.

An O-lineman, show me someone who rotates. You're out there 70 plays. That's also why the guy with the best highlight tape is not the guy that you go get. If it's the highlight tape and the whole game, yes, but an O-lineman is different. You've got to be built to last. You don't have to be flashy. You've got to make sure you can survive that game and not be the reason that we lost, and if you can have a guy who can dominate, someone like [T] Trent Williams, it's still only so much you can do there. Where, the D-ends, these pass rushers, they might not be able to play the run, they might not be able to do something, but you can put them in in a 2-minute situation and have them win a game for you. So, that's why you can win with D-lineman by a group of them. O-line, how good do those five play together and one goes down, and the next one comes in. How does that adjust your five and how they play together?" - Kyle Shanahan

I think Kyle is basically saying you can't have any weaknesses on the offensive line. You can have a Trent Williams, but he's only *one man* when it comes to a play, all five OLinemen have to block their guys. If *One* of the five misses the block, the play is blown up. (Mike Person is an example of this) Kyle is doing various things to get the best *group* OLinemen he can. By waiting, by developing undrafteds, and by drafting.

Totally. I think Kyle's system alone lends his lean towards veterans. When I heard Brendel giving some details on the pre snap decisions he's making for our QB, it's no wonder. Kyle probably views it as, "We've been developing this dude for 3.5 years now. We have a quality veteran T behind him for security. I can scheme around T issues. If I bring in a rookie T, even if he's got the highest ceiling, it's still going to take him 2 years to develop. Let's pivot elsewhere to positions like S, TE, PK, etc. where those guys can make a more immediate impact and we'll punt that RT down the road."

I think your strategy at the OLine position is having the following (1) starter level player (2) backup player that is being developed (3) raw physically talented rookie player that is one or two years away from starting. So you have talent at all three stages of the process. So: (1) they just lost McGlinchy, so they lost a starter level player (2) the backup player in McKivitz is going to have to step up and be a starter (3) guys like Joey Fisher, Pryor, or Feliciano can be considered *raw but talented* or starter level, we don't know yet, but safe to say they are stage 2 or 3, but not 1.

It would have been nice to replace McGlinchy with a high round pick that is young and could start right away, but they didn't have a lot of high round picks due to CMC and Trey deals. Usually rounds 1 to 4 are considered plug and play starter level players. I.e. they should be able to play in the year they are drafted or your GM screwed up. But they did have McKivitz that is close to starting, and they added some developmental free agents (Watson, Pryor, Feliciano) and added several raw but talented guys in Fisher, Manning, and Luciano, so they are talent stacking and using your process.

You are correct to stay they are prioritizing the defensive line versus the offensive line. Why? Turnovers. If you have +1 in net turnovers you are winning 70% of the time. Using my grade 1 math skills, that's about 11 games won, which is playoff qualification. Conversely on offense, keep in mind the defensive line doesn't know the snap count, but the offensive line does. That's an advantage that a good offensive line coach with a lesser talented players can use to gain an advantage. Also, don't forget all the motions and shifts that Kyle calls can also give him another advantage - and that of knowing what the defensive coverage will be. But the defense still doesn't know the snap count or the play call (most of the time). A side note, he's constantly losing DC's but they are generating a lot of compensatory picks for him. One compensatory third round pick is equal to about five fifth round picks. Yes Kyle is prioritizing the defensive line, but he's doing it for a reason.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
OK but an NFL teams draft board is compiled not just by a players system fit but also by his character, mental makeup, work ethic etc.

So those things can change where a player would be projected to go from one team to the next.

Your words not mine :

They 'chose' not to select one earlier as they felt other positions were more important.

So answer me this :

Should they have selected a system fit where the player has a poor work ethic or poor character or is uncoachable etc. over other positions that were available at that time where the player was not just a system fit but also a locker room fit?

These coaches and scouts already have that information by the time they are added to this list. In fact, that list is simply to lock in their grades and shore up a few more points/questions the FO has. That's why they are holding those visits, doing zoom meetings, running drills, attending live workouts, etc. with them. They certainly do their research.

But the idea there wasn't any OL available or there weren't any fits, is bunk.

It's more about how they ranked their players which is also by need and priority. As we've seen countless times, they seem to buck the draft environment and go get their need-player be damned even if it's considered overvalued or a reach by the masses. They lock in with full horse blinders on. They don't seem to subscribe to BPA until later in the draft.

If there was poor character, a poor work ethic, uncoachable, they probably wouldn't be drafted or drafted much later. Given all their players were picked up, that's less likely the issue here. It's simply about what they value and what they prioritized. Simple as that.

Simple as that huh? 😂

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. True. Anything can happen. True, you'd prefer Burford. With Poe at RG, that would be a lot of quick, athleticism on that right side.

Tristan Wirfs.

Nobody in this entire draft as the same T's are picked as all pro's every year.

Well like with Wirfs you'll wait to someone emerges then lament not picking them.

Lol he had no clue who Wirfs was at the time. Guy Jody happened to be the last remaining name OT standing when they picked

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha. True. Anything can happen. True, you'd prefer Burford. With Poe at RG, that would be a lot of quick, athleticism on that right side.

Tristan Wirfs.

Nobody in this entire draft as the same T's are picked as all pro's every year.

Well like with Wirfs you'll wait to someone emerges then lament not picking them.

Please. Ask NY. He was my top pick by a large amount. Lamb was next. We went Kinlaw instead. Yeah, why should we ever question a FO move? LOL

McKivitz > Wirfs

Originally posted by NCommand:
Please. Ask NY. He was my top pick by a large amount. Lamb was next. We went Kinlaw instead. Yeah, why should we ever question a FO move? LOL

McKivitz > Wirfs

Dude you wanted any OL in the first rd lol. Didn't matter if it was Becton, Willis, Thomas or wirfs

Is what it is now. No sense crying over spilled milk. I do remember them being very high on Wirfs so at least they can target talent…they will always value DL over anything good/bad is what it is. We got a damn good OL coach and they like Colton. I wish they would have brought in more competition via the draft for sure.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Please. Ask NY. He was my top pick by a large amount. Lamb was next. We went Kinlaw instead. Yeah, why should we ever question a FO move? LOL

McKivitz > Wirfs

Dude you wanted any OL in the first rd lol. Didn't matter if it was Becton, Willis, Thomas or wirfs

Is what it is now. No sense crying over spilled milk. I do remember them being very high on Wirfs so at least they can target talent…they will always value DL over anything good/bad is what it is. We got a damn good OL coach and they like Colton. I wish they would have brought in more competition via the draft for sure.

Only if they are scheme fits and talented. No way on Becton. Had they made one of those moves to date, we wouldn't be having this discussion annually. And now you're seeing that. There's been plenty of talent passed over annually at every round. This scenario we're in today is exactly why I wanted Wirfs even though we had Mike McGlinchey. They do this to themselves. On the flip side, the Eagles continue to add talent in Tyler Steen despite not 'needing' a RT right now. That's how you prioritize a position. We clearly get that concept with the DL to a level never seen before. I respect that until it washes over to other priority positions such as OL and secondary. And those units have CLEARLY cost us when it matters the most - the playoffs.

As to Colton, like you said, it is what it is...let's see how it plays out now.

There are lots of ways to build a team and if this pans out and he becomes a dominant player through the playoffs and the OL (entire unit pass protection and run blocking) is a big reason we get over the hump, my skepticism will happily fall off.

Until then, I'm sticking with the clear patterns of in/actions concerns we've seen for 7 years now.

I am a believer in developing OL. DL is plug and play, OL they have to gel together. The Niners have some serious talent to develop on OL.

Trent Williams -LT
Aaron Banks -LG
Jake Brendel-C
RG Spencer Burford- will someone rotate with him like last season?
Colin Mcvitz- Designated starter- homegrown talent his job to lose, no drop off IMO when McGlinchey was out

x
Jaylon Moore- I think he will be back up number one for swing tackle spots- Make roster
Nick Zadedj- why give up on a second year player, he will make the roster and he is practicing at center
Jason Poe- last years webzone crush- I have my hopes for this short stud
Keith Ismael- former fifth round pick at C picked up from Atlanta

Vets with experience if above does not work out below is the insurance plans
Jone Feliciano- Center Guard
Matt Prior OT- practice squad one of four veterans slots.

UDFA this year
OT- Joey Fisher Shepard- I predict he will make the roster
OT- Ilm Manning- Hawaii- Practice Squad
C- C Corey Luciao Washington- Practice squad

So the Niners have 9, count them 9 back ups to work with. 4 will make the roster, I think Feliciano makes it and Poe is PS

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am a believer in developing OL. DL is plug and play, OL they have to gel together. The Niners have some serious talent to develop on OL.

Trent Williams -LT
Aaron Banks -LG
Jake Brendel-C
RG Spencer Burford- will someone rotate with him like last season?
Colin Mcvitz- Designated starter- homegrown talent his job to lose, no drop off IMO when McGlinchey was out

x
Jaylon Moore- I think he will be back up number one for swing tackle spots- Make roster
Nick Zadedj- why give up on a second year player, he will make the roster and he is practicing at center
Jason Poe- last years webzone crush- I have my hopes for this short stud
Keith Ismael- former fifth round pick at C picked up from Atlanta

Vets with experience if above does not work out below is the insurance plans
Jone Feliciano- Center Guard
Matt Prior OT- practice squad one of four veterans slots.

UDFA this year
OT- Joey Fisher Shepard- I predict he will make the roster
OT- Ilm Manning- Hawaii- Practice Squad
C- C Corey Luciao Washington- Practice squad

So the Niners have 9, count them 9 back ups to work with. 4 will make the roster, I think Feliciano makes it and Poe is PS

I don't know about "serious talent" but I'm with you on your projections!

My guess:
LT: Trent Williams; Joey Fischer
LG: Aaron Banks; Nick Zakelj
C: Jake Brendel
RG: Spencer Burford; Jon Feliciano
RT: Colton McKivitz; Matt Pryor

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am a believer in developing OL. DL is plug and play, OL they have to gel together. The Niners have some serious talent to develop on OL.

Trent Williams -LT
Aaron Banks -LG
Jake Brendel-C
RG Spencer Burford- will someone rotate with him like last season?
Colin Mcvitz- Designated starter- homegrown talent his job to lose, no drop off IMO when McGlinchey was out

x
Jaylon Moore- I think he will be back up number one for swing tackle spots- Make roster
Nick Zadedj- why give up on a second year player, he will make the roster and he is practicing at center
Jason Poe- last years webzone crush- I have my hopes for this short stud
Keith Ismael- former fifth round pick at C picked up from Atlanta

Vets with experience if above does not work out below is the insurance plans
Jone Feliciano- Center Guard
Matt Prior OT- practice squad one of four veterans slots.

UDFA this year
OT- Joey Fisher Shepard- I predict he will make the roster
OT- Ilm Manning- Hawaii- Practice Squad
C- C Corey Luciao Washington- Practice squad

So the Niners have 9, count them 9 back ups to work with. 4 will make the roster, I think Feliciano makes it and Poe is PS

I don't know about "serious talent" but I'm with you on your projections!

My guess:
LT: Trent Williams; Joey Fischer
LG: Aaron Banks; Nick Zakelj
C: Jake Brendel
RG: Spencer Burford; Jon Feliciano
RT: Colton McKivitz; Matt Pryor

My right side hurts...

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am a believer in developing OL. DL is plug and play, OL they have to gel together. The Niners have some serious talent to develop on OL.

Trent Williams -LT
Aaron Banks -LG
Jake Brendel-C
RG Spencer Burford- will someone rotate with him like last season?
Colin Mcvitz- Designated starter- homegrown talent his job to lose, no drop off IMO when McGlinchey was out

x
Jaylon Moore- I think he will be back up number one for swing tackle spots- Make roster
Nick Zadedj- why give up on a second year player, he will make the roster and he is practicing at center
Jason Poe- last years webzone crush- I have my hopes for this short stud
Keith Ismael- former fifth round pick at C picked up from Atlanta

Vets with experience if above does not work out below is the insurance plans
Jone Feliciano- Center Guard
Matt Prior OT- practice squad one of four veterans slots.

UDFA this year
OT- Joey Fisher Shepard- I predict he will make the roster
OT- Ilm Manning- Hawaii- Practice Squad
C- C Corey Luciao Washington- Practice squad

So the Niners have 9, count them 9 back ups to work with. 4 will make the roster, I think Feliciano makes it and Poe is PS

I don't know about "serious talent" but I'm with you on your projections!

My guess:
LT: Trent Williams; Joey Fischer
LG: Aaron Banks; Nick Zakelj
C: Jake Brendel
RG: Spencer Burford; Jon Feliciano
RT: Colton McKivitz; Matt Pryor

My right side hurts...

A new starter at RT and a second year split-starter side-by-side? It could be painful for a bit. Ha

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9erred:
I am a believer in developing OL. DL is plug and play, OL they have to gel together. The Niners have some serious talent to develop on OL.

Trent Williams -LT
Aaron Banks -LG
Jake Brendel-C
RG Spencer Burford- will someone rotate with him like last season?
Colin Mcvitz- Designated starter- homegrown talent his job to lose, no drop off IMO when McGlinchey was out

x
Jaylon Moore- I think he will be back up number one for swing tackle spots- Make roster
Nick Zadedj- why give up on a second year player, he will make the roster and he is practicing at center
Jason Poe- last years webzone crush- I have my hopes for this short stud
Keith Ismael- former fifth round pick at C picked up from Atlanta

Vets with experience if above does not work out below is the insurance plans
Jone Feliciano- Center Guard
Matt Prior OT- practice squad one of four veterans slots.

UDFA this year
OT- Joey Fisher Shepard- I predict he will make the roster
OT- Ilm Manning- Hawaii- Practice Squad
C- C Corey Luciao Washington- Practice squad

So the Niners have 9, count them 9 back ups to work with. 4 will make the roster, I think Feliciano makes it and Poe is PS

I don't know about "serious talent" but I'm with you on your projections!

My guess:
LT: Trent Williams; Joey Fischer
LG: Aaron Banks; Nick Zakelj
C: Jake Brendel
RG: Spencer Burford; Jon Feliciano
RT: Colton McKivitz; Matt Pryor

My right side hurts...

A new starter at RT and a second year split-starter side-by-side? It could be painful for a bit. Ha

Agreed. In the long run I could see the run game hurting a tad, but passing may be improved. We shall see. I was hoping Moore would step up, but he has never instilled much confidence to this point. I see with UDFA they went some undrafted which I liked. You never know. Lets hope Colton takes a step up!