Niners draft Colton McKivitz | OT West Virginia

Originally posted by NCommand:
Only if they are scheme fits and talented. No way on Becton. Had they made one of those moves to date, we wouldn't be having this discussion annually. And now you're seeing that. There's been plenty of talent passed over annually at every round. This scenario we're in today is exactly why I wanted Wirfs even though we had Mike McGlinchey. They do this to themselves. On the flip side, the Eagles continue to add talent in Tyler Steen despite not 'needing' a RT right now. That's how you prioritize a position. We clearly get that concept with the DL to a level never seen before. I respect that until it washes over to other priority positions such as OL and secondary. And those units have CLEARLY cost us when it matters the most - the playoffs.

As to Colton, like you said, it is what it is...let's see how it plays out now.

There are lots of ways to build a team and if this pans out and he becomes a dominant player through the playoffs and the OL (entire unit pass protection and run blocking) is a big reason we get over the hump, my skepticism will happily fall off.

Until then, I'm sticking with the clear patterns of in/actions concerns we've seen for 7 years now.

Don't pretend you care about the secondary. You lament starting a 5th round tackle but an undrafted scrap heap guy is fine at FS. 5th rounder is fine as a starting corner.

The two positions this team has ever prioritized putting a lot of resources in is DL and RB. WR is probably next but it and OL are close. LB and TE had never been prioritized. Highest picked safety this team has ever had is 87 now with Brown. Yet you will continue to act like OL is the only thing. That's the issue we all have. You don't care about the other positions on this team. You just don't.

Again I would've liked an interior guy taken as I'm not sure on Zakelj. I'll go on record on the OTs though. Wasn't a fan of any of em that were available. Duncan in the 5th was the only one I would've considered. I'd sign one of the FA tackles and go with that. Next years first will be a OT unless something ridiculous falls. It sure as hell won't be a corner.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Only if they are scheme fits and talented. No way on Becton. Had they made one of those moves to date, we wouldn't be having this discussion annually. And now you're seeing that. There's been plenty of talent passed over annually at every round. This scenario we're in today is exactly why I wanted Wirfs even though we had Mike McGlinchey. They do this to themselves. On the flip side, the Eagles continue to add talent in Tyler Steen despite not 'needing' a RT right now. That's how you prioritize a position. We clearly get that concept with the DL to a level never seen before. I respect that until it washes over to other priority positions such as OL and secondary. And those units have CLEARLY cost us when it matters the most - the playoffs.

As to Colton, like you said, it is what it is...let's see how it plays out now.

There are lots of ways to build a team and if this pans out and he becomes a dominant player through the playoffs and the OL (entire unit pass protection and run blocking) is a big reason we get over the hump, my skepticism will happily fall off.

Until then, I'm sticking with the clear patterns of in/actions concerns we've seen for 7 years now.

Don't pretend you care about the secondary. You lament starting a 5th round tackle but an undrafted scrap heap guy is fine at FS. 5th rounder is fine as a starting corner.

The two positions this team has ever prioritized putting a lot of resources in is DL and RB. WR is probably next but it and OL are close. LB and TE had never been prioritized. Highest picked safety this team has ever had is 87 now with Brown. Yet you will continue to act like OL is the only thing. That's the issue we all have. You don't care about the other positions on this team. You just don't.

Again I would've liked an interior guy taken as I'm not sure on Zakelj. I'll go on record on the OTs though. Wasn't a fan of any of em that were available. Duncan in the 5th was the only one I would've considered. I'd sign one of the FA tackles and go with that. Next years first will be a OT unless something ridiculous falls. It sure as hell won't be a corner.

I don't care about the secondary? Have you seen my rants about Jimmie Ward and Jaquiski Tartt? LOL. The health of the group? Like the talent issues on the OL, they'll eventually get exposed too when it matters most. They don't allocate resources to the LB group either but like RB, have an excellent eye for them and then develop them very very well (Saleh, Ryans, Holland).

OL and secondary is 1A and 1B for me for the exact same reason...it's a passing league no matter how badly ShanaLynch want it to be 1980 (dominant DL and running game). The only difference is that Lynch has allocated the most resources in NFL history to the DL which greatly aides the secondary and allows 4.65 S's to get recognized as All Pro's. Also, all 10 of the projected starters have come from the past 2 years so they aren't exactly ignoring the position.

Are they spending top draft capitol on it? Absolutely not...not since Witherspoon flamed out.

That said, I just never see you post who you want so there's nothing to debate. Show your plan and I'd probably agree with you. LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Only if they are scheme fits and talented. No way on Becton. Had they made one of those moves to date, we wouldn't be having this discussion annually. And now you're seeing that. There's been plenty of talent passed over annually at every round. This scenario we're in today is exactly why I wanted Wirfs even though we had Mike McGlinchey. They do this to themselves. On the flip side, the Eagles continue to add talent in Tyler Steen despite not 'needing' a RT right now. That's how you prioritize a position. We clearly get that concept with the DL to a level never seen before. I respect that until it washes over to other priority positions such as OL and secondary. And those units have CLEARLY cost us when it matters the most - the playoffs.

As to Colton, like you said, it is what it is...let's see how it plays out now.

There are lots of ways to build a team and if this pans out and he becomes a dominant player through the playoffs and the OL (entire unit pass protection and run blocking) is a big reason we get over the hump, my skepticism will happily fall off.

Until then, I'm sticking with the clear patterns of in/actions concerns we've seen for 7 years now.

Don't pretend you care about the secondary. You lament starting a 5th round tackle but an undrafted scrap heap guy is fine at FS. 5th rounder is fine as a starting corner.

The two positions this team has ever prioritized putting a lot of resources in is DL and RB. WR is probably next but it and OL are close. LB and TE had never been prioritized. Highest picked safety this team has ever had is 87 now with Brown. Yet you will continue to act like OL is the only thing. That's the issue we all have. You don't care about the other positions on this team. You just don't.

Again I would've liked an interior guy taken as I'm not sure on Zakelj. I'll go on record on the OTs though. Wasn't a fan of any of em that were available. Duncan in the 5th was the only one I would've considered. I'd sign one of the FA tackles and go with that. Next years first will be a OT unless something ridiculous falls. It sure as hell won't be a corner.

I don't care about the secondary? Have you seen my rants about Jimmie Ward and Jaquiski Tartt? LOL. The health of the group? Like the talent issues on the OL, they'll eventually get exposed too when it matters most. They don't allocate resources to the LB group either but like RB, have an excellent eye for them and then develop them very very well (Saleh, Ryans, Holland).

OL and secondary is 1A and 1B for me for the exact same reason...it's a passing league no matter how badly ShanaLynch want it to be 1980 (dominant DL and running game). The only difference is that Lynch has allocated the most resources in NFL history to the DL which greatly aides the secondary and allows 4.65 S's to get recognized as All Pro's. Also, all 10 of the projected starters have come from the past 2 years so they aren't exactly ignoring the position.

Are they spending top draft capitol on it? Absolutely not...not since Witherspoon flamed out.

That said, I just never see you post who you want so there's nothing to debate. Show your plan and I'd probably agree with you. LOL

I seem to remember that they were drafting DBs that were tall and long for awhile, trying duplicate what Seattle did years ago. Unfortunately most of them weren't very good. Spoon was a terrible coverage guy who never really learned when to look back for the ball. This year the DBs they drafted are a little smaller but seem to have good coverage and tackling ability.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't care about the secondary? Have you seen my rants about Jimmie Ward and Jaquiski Tartt? LOL. The health of the group? Like the talent issues on the OL, they'll eventually get exposed too when it matters most. They don't allocate resources to the LB group either but like RB, have an excellent eye for them and then develop them very very well (Saleh, Ryans, Holland).

OL and secondary is 1A and 1B for me for the exact same reason...it's a passing league no matter how badly ShanaLynch want it to be 1980 (dominant DL and running game). The only difference is that Lynch has allocated the most resources in NFL history to the DL which greatly aides the secondary and allows 4.65 S's to get recognized as All Pro's. Also, all 10 of the projected starters have come from the past 2 years so they aren't exactly ignoring the position.

Are they spending top draft capitol on it? Absolutely not...not since Witherspoon flamed out.

That said, I just never see you post who you want so there's nothing to debate. Show your plan and I'd probably agree with you. LOL

You didn't like Tartt or Ward yet you are ok with a street free agent undrafted guy. You don't see the hypocrisy with that when you can't fathom not drafting an OL?

Again you talk about money rounds yet a whole 2 of them have come from those money rounds and only one was the 9ers actually picking them. Trent cost way more than Ward. Brendel cost more than Oliver. Outside of Ward it's bargain basement shopping.

Had the 9ers done what KC did with Taylor and Morris you'd be praising the front office. There would be zero posts of concern about no safety behind Gipson. No issue with spending 20 mil a year on a mediocre tackle. So no you don't care because you've never advocated for a DB. Or literally any other position besides OL.

Big ass batman spotlight on CM

Just rewatched week 18 game of year 2021 against the rams. Colton did a decent job against an active Rams defense. Remember that Rams team won the superbowl that year. I think he'll be fine at right tackle, and I think (at least) an upgrade in the pass protection, and a wash on the run game (vs McGlinchy). I think Colton can be as good a run blocker as McGlinchy but way better as a pass blocker. He moves well and doesn't make brain fart mistakes like McGlinchy does in pass protection.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just rewatched week 18 game of year 2021 against the rams. Colton did a decent job against an active Rams defense. Remember that Rams team won the superbowl that year. I think he'll be fine at right tackle, and I think (at least) an upgrade in the pass protection, and a wash on the run game (vs McGlinchy). I think Colton can be as good a run blocker as McGlinchy but way better as a pass blocker. He moves well and doesn't make brain fart mistakes like McGlinchy does in pass protection.

Yea he filled in well that game. And at somepoint he's passed up Moore as the primary back up swing tackle. We just need to see how he holds up for multiple games against good pass rushers. He does move well but his overall strength was an issue. Hopefully he's ready.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just rewatched week 18 game of year 2021 against the rams. Colton did a decent job against an active Rams defense. Remember that Rams team won the superbowl that year. I think he'll be fine at right tackle, and I think (at least) an upgrade in the pass protection, and a wash on the run game (vs McGlinchy). I think Colton can be as good a run blocker as McGlinchy but way better as a pass blocker. He moves well and doesn't make brain fart mistakes like McGlinchy does in pass protection.

In hindsight, he probably should have started the NFCCG instead of Trent Williams on one leg.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't care about the secondary? Have you seen my rants about Jimmie Ward and Jaquiski Tartt? LOL. The health of the group? Like the talent issues on the OL, they'll eventually get exposed too when it matters most. They don't allocate resources to the LB group either but like RB, have an excellent eye for them and then develop them very very well (Saleh, Ryans, Holland).

OL and secondary is 1A and 1B for me for the exact same reason...it's a passing league no matter how badly ShanaLynch want it to be 1980 (dominant DL and running game). The only difference is that Lynch has allocated the most resources in NFL history to the DL which greatly aides the secondary and allows 4.65 S's to get recognized as All Pro's. Also, all 10 of the projected starters have come from the past 2 years so they aren't exactly ignoring the position.

Are they spending top draft capitol on it? Absolutely not...not since Witherspoon flamed out.

That said, I just never see you post who you want so there's nothing to debate. Show your plan and I'd probably agree with you. LOL

You didn't like Tartt or Ward yet you are ok with a street free agent undrafted guy. You don't see the hypocrisy with that when you can't fathom not drafting an OL?

Again you talk about money rounds yet a whole 2 of them have come from those money rounds and only one was the 9ers actually picking them. Trent cost way more than Ward. Brendel cost more than Oliver. Outside of Ward it's bargain basement shopping.

Had the 9ers done what KC did with Taylor and Morris you'd be praising the front office. There would be zero posts of concern about no safety behind Gipson. No issue with spending 20 mil a year on a mediocre tackle. So no you don't care because you've never advocated for a DB. Or literally any other position besides OL.

Which guy are you talking about? Tashaun Gipson? He's a proven high end player and you could see it. I said it was a mistake to cut him. Looks like I was right. He essentially took both Tartt and Ward's job. Hoov was wrong again.

I already agree with you. We don't have a TW-like player in the secondary. Does anybody though?

DB isn't my forte...it's yours. I'm in line with your philosophy overall though so until you lay out players/plans like I do for the OL annually, you're just complaining and there isn't much to talk about. They are proven costly team-building strategies even after 7 full off seasons.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just rewatched week 18 game of year 2021 against the rams. Colton did a decent job against an active Rams defense. Remember that Rams team won the superbowl that year. I think he'll be fine at right tackle, and I think (at least) an upgrade in the pass protection, and a wash on the run game (vs McGlinchy). I think Colton can be as good a run blocker as McGlinchy but way better as a pass blocker. He moves well and doesn't make brain fart mistakes like McGlinchy does in pass protection.

In hindsight, he probably should have started the NFCCG instead of Trent Williams on one leg.

Even TW said that. The irony though is both TW and McKivitz gave up 5 pressures in back to back games (IIRC) but TW was playing on one leg.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Which guy are you talking about? Tashaun Gipson? He's a proven high end player and you could see it. I said it was a mistake to cut him. Looks like I was right. He essentially took both Tartt and Ward's job. Hoov was wrong again.

I already agree with you. We don't have a TW-like player in the secondary. Does anybody though?

DB isn't my forte...it's yours. I'm in line with your philosophy overall though so until you lay out players/plans like I do for the OL annually, you're just complaining and there isn't much to talk about. They are proven costly team-building strategies even after 7 full off seasons.

Tashaun Gipson a high end player? Cmon. Even with that said what round was he drafted?

Signing Feliciano was the equivalent of signing Gipson. He's a decent vet who doesnt mess things up too badly. His lack of speed cost the 9ers a lot last year though.

The strategy in the secondary has been more costly. Has any metric graded the 9ers secondary top 10 ever?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just rewatched week 18 game of year 2021 against the rams. Colton did a decent job against an active Rams defense. Remember that Rams team won the superbowl that year. I think he'll be fine at right tackle, and I think (at least) an upgrade in the pass protection, and a wash on the run game (vs McGlinchy). I think Colton can be as good a run blocker as McGlinchy but way better as a pass blocker. He moves well and doesn't make brain fart mistakes like McGlinchy does in pass protection.

In hindsight, he probably should have started the NFCCG instead of Trent Williams on one leg.

Even TW said that. The irony though is both TW and McKivitz gave up 5 pressures in back to back games (IIRC) but TW was playing on one leg.

Well, true, but Trent is 34 and Colton is 26. Colton, I hope, can get better than a one legged Trent Williams with more playing time. If anything, he buys us some time till ShanaLynch can spend next years first rounder on a left tackle.

Originally posted by lamontb:
Yea he filled in well that game. And at somepoint he's passed up Moore as the primary back up swing tackle. We just need to see how he holds up for multiple games against good pass rushers. He does move well but his overall strength was an issue. Hopefully he's ready.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
In hindsight, he probably should have started the NFCCG instead of Trent Williams on one leg.

In hindsight - yes. Strength is an issue with most, if not all, of Kyle's OLinemen. They are more athletic than they are strong. Kyle's system needs more athleticism than strength, but strength is still an important part of the game on the power/gap plays. I wish we had a young Trent Williams 2.0 just waiting in the wings to start, but you need a first round first pick level draft capital to spend on a guy like that.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just rewatched week 18 game of year 2021 against the rams. Colton did a decent job against an active Rams defense. Remember that Rams team won the superbowl that year. I think he'll be fine at right tackle, and I think (at least) an upgrade in the pass protection, and a wash on the run game (vs McGlinchy). I think Colton can be as good a run blocker as McGlinchy but way better as a pass blocker. He moves well and doesn't make brain fart mistakes like McGlinchy does in pass protection.

EXCELLENT call! Thanks

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Which guy are you talking about? Tashaun Gipson? He's a proven high end player and you could see it. I said it was a mistake to cut him. Looks like I was right. He essentially took both Tartt and Ward's job. Hoov was wrong again.

I already agree with you. We don't have a TW-like player in the secondary. Does anybody though?

DB isn't my forte...it's yours. I'm in line with your philosophy overall though so until you lay out players/plans like I do for the OL annually, you're just complaining and there isn't much to talk about. They are proven costly team-building strategies even after 7 full off seasons.

Tashaun Gipson a high end player? Cmon. Even with that said what round was he drafted?

Signing Feliciano was the equivalent of signing Gipson. He's a decent vet who doesnt mess things up too badly. His lack of speed cost the 9ers a lot last year though.

The strategy in the secondary has been more costly. Has any metric graded the 9ers secondary top 10 ever?

LOL. I liked the John Feliciano signing and feel he should be given a legit chance to start...unlikely.