Kudos to Lynch and Shannhan for not repeating their past mistake

^^^ you dont agree with anything else i posted? Well ok, whatever.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
None of this has anything to do with learning from past mistakes. Past mistakes have been overcome by countless other great moves (a lot of which you have highlighted above), but its not as if we have seen a single example of them identifying a past mistake, and them having an opportunity to repeat the same mistake but chosen differently. THAT is learning from a mistake.

For example, you explicitly said they learned from the Pettis pick.

Can you elaborate on what they learned? Because two seasons ago Kyle/Lynch identified a WR that they liked who was outside of the top WRs available. Then they moved up to get him. And that, to this point was a mistake.

So what did they do this year? They identified a WR that they liked who was outside of the top WRs available. Then they moved up to get him. Where in that scenario are you seeing they "learned from their mistake?" If anything, they havent learned a thing because they did the exact same thing this season!

One of the oddest threads I have seen on this site in a while.

If you will reread the above, you will note that i specifically did NOT include Pettis in the list. That was probably one of the mistakes they made. Foster, a mistake. There were others, but these guys definitely learned as they went along or we wouldn't have the talent listed above nor would have been in the SB. Who predicted that? No one i can think of. So they sure as schid learned something re: picks, trades, FAs, UDFAs along the way. Actually they learned a ton. And Pettis was one of those learning picks. As for Aiyuc, nobody knows how that pick comes out. So far, we know zip. Sure has some great film , if you are into that kind of thing.

As for elaborating on what they learned? How about what did WE learn from their picks, drafts, trades, FAs, UDFAs? We learned they have one helluva eye for talent. That's what we learned. As for GM/HC. They made some mistakes. That comes with the job. But picking one guy, two guys, and comparing those with all the talent they have assembled....how on earth can one say they have not learned from their mistakes.. for heaven's sakes. Look at the talent. That is from JL/KS. Every GM/HC makes mistakes, and then they get better as time goes on or they get fired.

So far they have just improved this team by leaps and bounds each yr. From here on it will be less and less noticeable because right now? They have a SB caliber lineup. And you don't get to that stage by not learning from your mistakes. So we disagree. Picking one player ...or two...when there is a team full of guys like the above...that is just not looking at the big picture. I would have liked to have Thomas (OT to play OG for a couple yrs) taken at #13. But he went #4 i believe . I loved the Kinlaw pick but never even considered it. That's just one of many reasons i would never make a good GM.

I agree they learned from their mistakes, because it was a mistake in player evaluations. That is a critical skill in any football program be it, high school, college, or the pros. For Example: you have Coaches like Brian Billick who never could find his QB (and most NFL coaching failures have the same trait - inability to find talent at QB). I think the Reuben and Joe Williams picks really changed their player evaluations, same with Solomon and Pettis. They are doing player evaluations differently now. The Juan Jennings pick - with all his red flags - wasn't picked till the 7th round (he's practically almost an undrafted free agent). Also the NFL is changing, it was interesting that Kyle picked a mobile QB to be an understudy for BeatHard this year. Brock Hurd is a very mobile QB, and this type of player seems to go against the grain of the typically successful immobile kyle shanahan pocket QB.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
None of this has anything to do with learning from past mistakes. Past mistakes have been overcome by countless other great moves (a lot of which you have highlighted above), but its not as if we have seen a single example of them identifying a past mistake, and them having an opportunity to repeat the same mistake but chosen differently. THAT is learning from a mistake.

For example, you explicitly said they learned from the Pettis pick.

Can you elaborate on what they learned? Because two seasons ago Kyle/Lynch identified a WR that they liked who was outside of the top WRs available. Then they moved up to get him. And that, to this point was a mistake.

So what did they do this year? They identified a WR that they liked who was outside of the top WRs available. Then they moved up to get him. Where in that scenario are you seeing they "learned from their mistake?" If anything, they havent learned a thing because they did the exact same thing this season!

One of the oddest threads I have seen on this site in a while.

If you will reread the above, you will note that i did NOT include Pettis in the list. That was probably one of the mistakes they made. Foster, a mistake. There were others, but these guys definitely learned as they went along or we wouldn't have the talent listed above nor would have been in the SB. Who predicted that? No one i can think of. So they sure as schid learned something re: picks, trades, FAs, UDFAs along the way. Actually they learned a ton. And Pettis was one of those learning picks. As for Aiyuc, nobody knows how that pick comes out. So far, we know zip.

My fault. It was NCOMMAND that said that we learned from the Pettis mistake. I still dont agree with anything else you posted as being evidence that Kyle/Lynch learned from their mistakes. But I apologize about the Pettis comment. Got two posters confused.

They could have taken Christian Kirk, but instead they took Pettis. Kirk was arrested before the draft so they learned not to take guys that get arrested (RFoster). Good thing they picked Pettis instead of a convicted rock thrower.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^ you dont agree with anything else i posted? Well ok, whatever.

I just dont agree that anything is an example of learning from past mistakes. I am not saying they havent done an incredible job in other areas of talent evaluation and bringing in players or that they dont deserve praise for what you posted. I just dont think that your posts really apply to the blanket statement that we "learned from our past mistakes." Semantics, but thats why I say I dont agree with any of what you posted.

Yep , mistakes were made. Every GM/HC makes mistake in choosing talent. The idea is to make a helluva lot more good picks than bad. And based on 3 yrs after totally starting over again(except for Arik, one other)...from scratch...they have overwhelmingly made the right choices most of the time. Look at the talent. But mistakes...they come with the territory. When your team is getting better and better each yr, it's pretty hard to find fault with the talent pickers.

Originally posted by thl408:
They could have taken Christian Kirk, but instead they took Pettis. Kirk was arrested before the draft so they learned not to take guys that get arrested (RFoster). Good thing they picked Pettis instead of a convicted rock thrower.

Pettis helped us win the Steeler Game, and he hasn't abused any cats as far as I can tell. *and* he's still on the team, and can still develop and contribute (or be traded if not). The best ability is availability - neither Joe Williams nor Reuben had that ability.

Can I look up any player drafted between 2018 and 2020, that got arrested, and say the 49ers learned from their mistakes because they didn't select that player? That seems like the easiest way to show they learned from their past mistake of picking guys that get arrested.

Joejuan Williams
Christian Kirk
Ed Oliver
Quinnen Williams
Deandre Baker
Tyrel D. Dodson (UDFA; could have signed him but didn't. More evidence they learneded)

There's more.

Originally posted by thl408:
They could have taken Christian Kirk, but instead they took Pettis. Kirk was arrested before the draft so they learned not to take guys that get arrested (RFoster). Good thing they picked Pettis instead of a convicted rock thrower.

Two questions....

1) Were we linked to Kirk at all before the draft (not challenging you, genuinely asking from an area of ignorance).
2) Your last statement makes me think that this post was in jest. Is that accurate? (silliest reason for arrest I have seen in...maybe ever)

Since you and I both know why Kirk was arrested, and how that to this point it is inarguable that Kirk has been better than Pettis, how can anyone say we learned our lesson (if the arrest was indeed the reason) when it resulted in drafting the far inferior player?

Originally posted by thl408:
Can I look up any player drafted between 2018 and 2020, that got arrested, and say the 49ers learned from their mistakes because they didn't select that player? That seems like the easiest way to show they learned from their past mistake of picking guys that get arrested.

Joejuan Williams
Christian Kirk
Ed Oliver
Quinnen Williams
Deandre Baker
Tyrel D. Dodson (UDFA; could have signed him but didn't. More evidence they learneded)

There's more.

THL408

P.S. can't wait for your Philm Sessions once the pre-season or regular season starts!

Originally posted by thl408:
Can I look up any player drafted between 2018 and 2020, that got arrested, and say the 49ers learned from their mistakes because they didn't select that player? That seems like the easiest way to show they learned from their past mistake of picking guys that get arrested.

Joejuan Williams
Christian Kirk
Ed Oliver
Quinnen Williams
Deandre Baker
Tyrel D. Dodson (UDFA; could have signed him but didn't. More evidence they learneded)

There's more.

So your point is because we didnt draft one of these guys, it shows we learned? I feel like I am losing my mind in this thread. This isnt evidence unless you can prove we would have taken one of these guys if not for the arrest.

I just need them to improve on the mistake of losing a super bowl game.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by thl408:
They could have taken Christian Kirk, but instead they took Pettis. Kirk was arrested before the draft so they learned not to take guys that get arrested (RFoster). Good thing they picked Pettis instead of a convicted rock thrower.

Two questions....

1) Were we linked to Kirk at all before the draft (not challenging you, genuinely asking from an area of ignorance).
2) Your last statement makes me think that this post was in jest. Is that accurate? (silliest reason for arrest I have seen in...maybe ever)

Since you and I both know why Kirk was arrested, and how that to this point it is inarguable that Kirk has been better than Pettis, how can anyone say we learned our lesson (if the arrest was indeed the reason) when it resulted in drafting the far inferior player?

1. No idea.
2. Yeah I'm jk.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by thl408:
Can I look up any player drafted between 2018 and 2020, that got arrested, and say the 49ers learned from their mistakes because they didn't select that player? That seems like the easiest way to show they learned from their past mistake of picking guys that get arrested.

Joejuan Williams
Christian Kirk
Ed Oliver
Quinnen Williams
Deandre Baker
Tyrel D. Dodson (UDFA; could have signed him but didn't. More evidence they learneded)

There's more.

So your point is because we didnt draft one of these guys, it shows we learned? I feel like I am losing my mind in this thread. This isnt evidence unless you can prove we would have taken one of these guys if not for the arrest.

You are going to be disappointed every time you click this thread if that's the proof you want. In the meantime, just let some of us have joy in thinking that we have a competent front office that learns from a past mistake of choosing players with off the field concerns.

My replies in this thread are tongue in cheek, knowing there is no way we can provide adequate proof that a player they did not select was because of off the field issues. I guess the proof would be to hear it straight from Kyle/Lynch. I doubt they will speak publicly about players they didn't draft and why they weren't drafted.

Mistakes are done, and they are patched as it's possible.
Solomon Thomas busting became the Dee Ford trade. It costs an expensive contract and a second round pick.
Reuben Foster busting became the signing of Kwon Alexander. It costs an expensive contract.
They patched the mistakes as it was possible when there was lots of cap space. Now it's much more difficult to overcome draft busts.
Also, no more soft players like Witherspoon, Dante Pettis and Joe Williams.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Does re-drafting the same position year after year show that they have learned from past mistakes?

I guess we will see...

Well, did it get us to SB in 3 yrs? And even then, the same position they drafted for, DL, we didn't have enough of come SB day. Three of those guys couldn't play. We actually needed another 3 DLs. Absence of Dee, DJ, and Blair didn't allow our DL to get a blow. In the end, it would have been nice if they could have had some time off in 3rd qtr, so they were not gassed for 4th. But when 3 of your 8 are out with injury... well , does that mean we need to draft MORE DLs?

Again, completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

Looking at it that way, Baalke, Harbaugh, and Kap got us to multiple NFCCG's and a Super Bowl without drafting the same position year after year.

So, do you think Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap were better then Shanahan/Lynch/Jimmy G?

Based on your logic Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap did a lot more in the same amount of time.