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Originally posted by glorydayz:
Looking at it that way, Baalke, Harbaugh, and Kap got us to multiple NFCCG's and a Super Bowl without drafting the same position year after year.
So, do you think Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap were better then Shanahan/Lynch/Jimmy G?
Based on your logic Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap did a lot more in the same amount of time.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Does re-drafting the same position year after year show that they have learned from past mistakes?
I guess we will see...
Well, did it get us to SB in 3 yrs? And even then, the same position they drafted for, DL, we didn't have enough of come SB day. Three of those guys couldn't play. We actually needed another 3 DLs. Absence of Dee, DJ, and Blair didn't allow our DL to get a blow. In the end, it would have been nice if they could have had some time off in 3rd qtr, so they were not gassed for 4th. But when 3 of your 8 are out with injury... well , does that mean we need to draft MORE DLs?
Again, completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Looking at it that way, Baalke, Harbaugh, and Kap got us to multiple NFCCG's and a Super Bowl without drafting the same position year after year.
So, do you think Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap were better then Shanahan/Lynch/Jimmy G?
Based on your logic Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap did a lot more in the same amount of time.
My logic has nothing to do with the amount that was done in any specific amount of time.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Looking at it that way, Baalke, Harbaugh, and Kap got us to multiple NFCCG's and a Super Bowl without drafting the same position year after year.
So, do you think Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap were better then Shanahan/Lynch/Jimmy G?
Based on your logic Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap did a lot more in the same amount of time.
My logic has nothing to do with the amount that was done in any specific amount of time.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Does re-drafting the same position year after year show that they have learned from past mistakes?
I guess we will see...
Well, did it get us to SB in 3 yrs? And even then, the same position they drafted for, DL, we didn't have enough of come SB day. Three of those guys couldn't play. We actually needed another 3 DLs. Absence of Dee, DJ, and Blair didn't allow our DL to get a blow. In the end, it would have been nice if they could have had some time off in 3rd qtr, so they were not gassed for 4th. But when 3 of your 8 are out with injury... well , does that mean we need to draft MORE DLs?
Again, completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Looking at it that way, Baalke, Harbaugh, and Kap got us to multiple NFCCG's and a Super Bowl without drafting the same position year after year.
So, do you think Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap were better then Shanahan/Lynch/Jimmy G?
Based on your logic Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap did a lot more in the same amount of time.
My logic has nothing to do with the amount that was done in any specific amount of time.
You specifically mentioned Shanahan/Lynch draft strategy getting us to the SB in 3 years.
Maybe I missed something?
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Looking at it that way, Baalke, Harbaugh, and Kap got us to multiple NFCCG's and a Super Bowl without drafting the same position year after year.
So, do you think Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap were better then Shanahan/Lynch/Jimmy G?
Based on your logic Harbaugh/Baalke/Kap did a lot more in the same amount of time.
My logic has nothing to do with the amount that was done in any specific amount of time.
Harbaugh, Baalke inherited an stacked team with veteran probowlers like Staley, Pat Willis, Bowman, Gore, Vernon, Walker, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, etc, etc. Baalke failed because he was replacing talent with bums like Vance McDonald, Tank Carradine, etc. All those horrific drafts resulted in the 2016 season, one of the worsts in franchise history.
Lynch/Shanahan inherited dogcrap. Some good players like Staley, Ward, Tartt, Armstead and Buck. But overall they had to rebuild almost from scratch.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:I still disagree with the premise of this thread, and my comment on the last page was ignored.
How does anyone know that Lynch/Kyle learned from their mistake? Was there a top prospect that had character concerns that we passed on for another player? Because unless there are indisputable facts that this exact scenario played out, no one has any idea if they learned from past actions. Silly thread.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Foster was such a great interview, esp on with Gruden. That was a classic. His play was superb. His enthusiasm wonderful.
But being afraid to read the sports pages in the newspaper in the morning for fear of what i was going to see was downright depressing. Never realized it was 17 different instances if you added them all up over 6 yrs. But, yes, i truly enjoy a team you don't have to be ashamed to call your own. Makes it a lot more fun to follow the team also.
So agreed, kudos to JL and KS for bringing us not just talent but good people also. And the article referred to above..was spot on.
Originally posted by Howlett49:Harbaugh, Baalke inherited an stacked team with veteran probowlers like Staley, Pat Willis, Bowman, Gore, Vernon, Walker, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, etc, etc. Baalke failed because he was replacing talent with bums like Vance McDonald, Tank Carradine, etc. All those horrific drafts resulted in the 2016 season, one of the worsts in franchise history.
Lynch/Shanahan inherited dogcrap. Some good players like Staley, Ward, Tartt, Armstead and Buck. But overall they had to rebuild almost from scratch.
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Harbaugh, Baalke inherited an stacked team with veteran probowlers like Staley, Pat Willis, Bowman, Gore, Vernon, Walker, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, etc, etc. Baalke failed because he was replacing talent with bums like Vance McDonald, Tank Carradine, etc. All those horrific drafts resulted in the 2016 season, one of the worsts in franchise history.
Lynch/Shanahan inherited dogcrap. Some good players like Staley, Ward, Tartt, Armstead and Buck. But overall they had to rebuild almost from scratch.
Harbaugh inherited a 6-10 team that he immediately turned into a power house 13-3 squad.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Harbaugh, Baalke inherited an stacked team with veteran probowlers like Staley, Pat Willis, Bowman, Gore, Vernon, Walker, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, etc, etc. Baalke failed because he was replacing talent with bums like Vance McDonald, Tank Carradine, etc. All those horrific drafts resulted in the 2016 season, one of the worsts in franchise history.
Lynch/Shanahan inherited dogcrap. Some good players like Staley, Ward, Tartt, Armstead and Buck. But overall they had to rebuild almost from scratch.
Harbaugh inherited a 6-10 team that he immediately turned into a power house 13-3 squad.
Harbaugh inherited a stacked team. He brought with him a very competent coaching staff. After years of the No Win Nolan Era followed by Singletary who had zero Head coaching and coordinator experience. Add in the Jimmy T experiment for a year and it's safe to say the stacked team was severely out coached especially from a schematics perspective. All defensive minded coaches with zero development towards the QB and offensive side of the ball.
Bring in an offensive minded head coach and oh snap! Alex Smith has his best year and the strong defensive nucleus begins to dominate. The defense is now being helped by the offense. Boom winning record, quick turnaround.
Scott McCloughan was the GM who stacked the team and left right before Harbaugh came. As mentioned above, Baalke couldn't keep the flow of talent coming in and the team began to sputter.
Point being yes Harbaugh inherited a stacked team. Yes they were losers because of incompetent coaching. Yes Harbaugh had a quick turnaround. Did Harbaugh help Baalke bring in top talent? No. They didn't even get a long. Have Kyle and Lynch done more in less time? Yes. Record wise no but to completely re-stack an almost talentless team in 3 years is legit. It only took Harbaugh and Baalke 3 years to blowup a stacked team
Sorry I formatted the quotes into my own. I meant to have the above posters comments separate. I guess I did it wrong.
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That was a little all over the place. Here is where I will meet you in the middle; the team Harbaugh took over was not stacked (as stacked teams will overcome bad coaching) but had some good players. Harbaugh also already had a track record of turning around football programs as a head coach (see Stanford & the University of San Diego) while Kyle Shanahan is not only still learning how to be a head coach but he's really a O.C acting as a head coach.
Scott McCloughan did not leave his GM role he drank himself out of the role. This led to Harbaugh and Baalke kind of coming in at a weird time, but with his experience Harbaugh overcame that as well. With that said Shanahan got to select his GM and came in with everything unicorns & butterflies. Harbaugh went to 3 straight championship games and a super bowl with cheap owners and a bogus GM, so truthfully Harbaugh was the one who did more with less (having to change the culture, you know unlocking the gatorade and all). In this situation, Harbaugh was still able to keep the team on top for three years, a lesser coach would have crumbled under these circumstances (see the two head coaches before Harbaugh got there and the two after he left and before Shanahan arrived.
Harbaugh had a winning percentage of .695 which is second to George Siefert, and I know this doesn't tell the entire story but look at the environment he succeeded in compared to Walsh, Siefert, and Shanahan? Shanahan's .479 winning percentage is sure to go up based on last years performance but he is operating in a better environment than Harbaugh was ever offered. Harbaugh seemed o have to wrestle with the ownership group to put football first as they were building a new stadium without the simple details that are important to a football team, such as the playing surface.
I like Shanahan and would keep him until he is old and grey as we know our team struggles to identify good head coaches.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Harbaugh, Baalke inherited an stacked team with veteran probowlers like Staley, Pat Willis, Bowman, Gore, Vernon, Walker, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Dashon Goldson, etc, etc. Baalke failed because he was replacing talent with bums like Vance McDonald, Tank Carradine, etc. All those horrific drafts resulted in the 2016 season, one of the worsts in franchise history.
Lynch/Shanahan inherited dogcrap. Some good players like Staley, Ward, Tartt, Armstead and Buck. But overall they had to rebuild almost from scratch.
Harbaugh inherited a 6-10 team that he immediately turned into a power house 13-3 squad.
Harbaugh inherited a stacked team. He brought with him a very competent coaching staff. After years of the No Win Nolan Era followed by Singletary who had zero Head coaching and coordinator experience. Add in the Jimmy T experiment for a year and it's safe to say the stacked team was severely out coached especially from a schematics perspective. All defensive minded coaches with zero development towards the QB and offensive side of the ball.
Bring in an offensive minded head coach and oh snap! Alex Smith has his best year and the strong defensive nucleus begins to dominate. The defense is now being helped by the offense. Boom winning record, quick turnaround.
Scott McCloughan was the GM who stacked the team and left right before Harbaugh came. As mentioned above, Baalke couldn't keep the flow of talent coming in and the team began to sputter.
Point being yes Harbaugh inherited a stacked team. Yes they were losers because of incompetent coaching. Yes Harbaugh had a quick turnaround. Did Harbaugh help Baalke bring in top talent? No. They didn't even get a long. Have Kyle and Lynch done more in less time? Yes. Record wise no but to completely re-stack an almost talentless team in 3 years is legit. It only took Harbaugh and Baalke 3 years to blowup a stacked team
Sorry I formatted the quotes into my own. I meant to have the above posters comments separate. I guess I did it wrong.
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That was a little all over the place. Here is where I will meet you in the middle; the team Harbaugh took over was not stacked (as stacked teams will overcome bad coaching) but had some good players. Harbaugh also already had a track record of turning around football programs as a head coach (see Stanford & the University of San Diego) while Kyle Shanahan is not only still learning how to be a head coach but he's really a O.C acting as a head coach.
Scott McCloughan did not leave his GM role he drank himself out of the role. This led to Harbaugh and Baalke kind of coming in at a weird time, but with his experience Harbaugh overcame that as well. With that said Shanahan got to select his GM and came in with everything unicorns & butterflies. Harbaugh went to 3 straight championship games and a super bowl with cheap owners and a bogus GM, so truthfully Harbaugh was the one who did more with less (having to change the culture, you know unlocking the gatorade and all). In this situation, Harbaugh was still able to keep the team on top for three years, a lesser coach would have crumbled under these circumstances (see the two head coaches before Harbaugh got there and the two after he left and before Shanahan arrived.
Harbaugh had a winning percentage of .695 which is second to George Siefert, and I know this doesn't tell the entire story but look at the environment he succeeded in compared to Walsh, Siefert, and Shanahan? Shanahan's .479 winning percentage is sure to go up based on last years performance but he is operating in a better environment than Harbaugh was ever offered. Harbaugh seemed o have to wrestle with the ownership group to put football first as they were building a new stadium without the simple details that are important to a football team, such as the playing surface.
I like Shanahan and would keep him until he is old and grey as we know our team struggles to identify good head coaches.
Great points to both posters. Excellent Discussion! I think I agree that both Harbaugh and Kyle are good coaches, and while I think John Lynch has been a good GM, Baalke made the grave decision to save his own skin vs helping his coach win. Having said all that, I think hands down -- as a team -- ShanaLynch is boatloads better than the disunity under the HarBaalke regime. What ShanaLynch has done, given the lack of talent is incredible - and while Harbaugh has the better record currently, he was unable to maintain it. Whearas, it looks like Kyle's team is stacked and playoff bound going into their 4th year. Harbaugh's fourth year was distinctly a time where things were trending down, not up. Love the discussion, the facts and the great responses from both!
Originally posted by Vancouver49er:Regarding ShanaLynch and their mistakes. I notice they do something that not many of our past coaches have done. when They see a player struggling during a game, they have no issues with pulling him and putting another player in. Even if that player started multiple games before that. I have seen them do it in the middle of a half or even within a quarter. They don't necessarily reserve their personnel changes for the half time, they make the change in the middle of the game if they have to. They don't care about players pouting about getting replaced nor do they have any problems with admitting a mistake by starting the wrong players.
Originally posted by Cutitoff:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I still disagree with the premise of this thread, and my comment on the last page was ignored.
How does anyone know that Lynch/Kyle learned from their mistake? Was there a top prospect that had character concerns that we passed on for another player? Because unless there are indisputable facts that this exact scenario played out, no one has any idea if they learned from past actions. Silly thread.
In my opinion, the meaning is more about who they have picked vs more than who they passed on. The guys they have drafted have been quality players who love football and have shown to be quality people.
There was a stretch there where it was almost weekly a niner was arrested for hitting his girlfriend or drunk driving or punching people with brass knuckles.
Who they have passed on is guys like Antonio Brown, or the dB (name is escaping me) who signed with the rams.