Rank The Importance of a Fielding a Dominant Pass Defense in This Cover 3 Defense

Originally posted by thl408:
A zone dominant defense has to prioritize DL pass rush over the coverage players. Not that coverage isn't important, but an effective zone defense starts with a good 4 man pass rush to allow for 7 in coverage. So for this 49er defense that is so zone dominant:
1. DL pass rush
2. coverage LBs
3. CBs/safeties

You can debate CB being more important than LB coverage, but with the game being played so much in the middle of the field and outside throws being the more difficult throw, I would put LB coverage slightly above CB coverage. I can point to the Fangio 49ers (majority zone defense) as evidence how an effective 4 man pass rush, excellent coverage LBs, and solid DBs can make a top defense.

Things would be different for a defense that wants to play mainly man coverage.

pass rush is always coveted in all defenses. Its always worth more then a coverage guy.

The hardest thing to do in the NFL is play man to man against any WR and chase them around over 5 seconds. Even Dion Sanders was beat with out a pass rush. Zone actually makes that job easier, not harder.

I think your right, you just didn't out right say hey there are not a lot of Dion Sanders type guys running around in this world, often times an average CB can work in a zone better then they can work playing man to man.

More in college then the NFL, but in College Zone CBs tend to be longer and taller. They don't need as low of a center of gravity with elite speed and hyper agility. There is simply more human beings built like that.

Well, some teams believe in building off coverage over pass rush like the Patriots. I don't think it is as black and white as some make it seem to be. Schemes often times determine which unit is more important for a particular defense.

But I can't stress enough how having good coverage backers and smart, disciplined safeties make this defense go. Ward was legitimately Pro Bowl level last season and when we had the starting duo on the field, the pass defense was awesome.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lockdown man corners are hard to find and are expensive.

Finding zone coverage CBs are without question cheaper and you don't have to spend a premium on them.

This defenses is based around that DL, I believe we played in some sort of zone shell 70% of the time last yr (more man on 3rd down).

This defenses also requires LBers that can cover as well.

Seattle is a great example, when's the last time they spent a high pick on a CB?

Now If you look at defenses that run that Patriot D (NE/Lions/Miami) they require those man corners and often dish out the cash (Miami ) and draft picks for them.

Agree. But the question was about *importance* of a coverage CB vs a coverage LB. Not about cap space. So I agree lockdown man corners are indeed expensive, but we've been fortunate to have Eric Davis, Eric Wright, and some great safeties in Carlton Williamson and Ronnie Lott (who was a cornerback too). So, they aren't impossible to find. They do make a big difference on first down because they can really screw up an OC's first down calls and narrow the field (so to speak) for the other defenders to defend.

But, like you said, they are almost as expensive as pass rushers.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
A dominant pass rush can make an average secondary look great. A bad pass rush can make a great secondary look average.

Don't think that is true for every scheme. But that's why I asked for THIS scheme what people rate the highest in terms of importance.

I think this scheme really works well with two good dominant corners and decent but not outstanding coverage linebackers. I think with good corners, you can vary the coverages a bit more and be more unpredictable in your coverages vs being predictable. Once you become predictable in your coverages against mobile QB's (or any QB's in general), it's a losing proposition. Pass coverage is *both* pass rush and pass coverage - a good offensive scheme will pick on the weaknesses and exploit it. In my opinion, you have to have **Both** Good DB's and Good pass rush - linebackers are secondary. Having said that, Dre Greenlaw and Kwon are more like Linebacker/Safety hybrids - so it begs the question - are these two linebackers oversized safeties or undersized linebackers.

I think most agree that DL pass rush is priority #1 when fielding an effective zone defense. So let's say we have that. If your 4 man pass rush is good, it makes sense for an offense to attack the short/intermediate areas of the field since it's more difficult to attack deep/outside areas of the field. This is why I placed the LBs patrolling the Hook zones in a Cover3 at a higher importance than the CBs. Cover3 invites the shorter throws so those Hook defenders have to be quick to react and limit RAC.
An argument can be made that the free safety is more important in Cover3 than the CBs.

Pass defense by the original poster was too broadly defined in my opinion. Pass defense can be nickel, dime, quarter. In those three scenarios, the linebackers are progressively taken out till you have basically one linebacker and the rest either DLinemen or DB's. In that sense, the linebackers lose importance as the down and distance increases and the DB's gain in importance. In essence, pass defense is all about coverage and pass rush (vs a low emphasis on stopping the run), and in those three situations I stated above, DB's are more important than linebackers.

Now in base, that's a totally different question. In base defense with the scheme we are predominantly use, then yes the WCO does stress the coverage linebackers more than the DB's (generally, but not on every pass). I would still say between a coverage linebacker and a coverage corner, I'd rather have a coverage corner vs a coverage linebacker. On first down, if your DB can knock down a pass, it's 2nd and 10 and now you take out the LB"s and add in more DB's and it becomes much harder for an opposing offense to pass - specially if you already have two lock down corners. If you have a lockdown corner, your corner can switch responsibilities with the LB and man-cover the WR and the LB drop into zone and so on - to vary the coverages. I just think with good DB's (vs good LB's) your pass defense - in general - is stronger.

Thread title mentions Cover3 so I was speaking specifically to that.

With four underneath zone defenders to cover six underneath zones, those middle of the field Hook defenders have a lot of area to cover and less reaction time to do so since it's short, directly over the middle. I agree with the bolded statement, but in order to get to 3rd & 8 you have to do well on 1st and 2nd downs. Those are the downs when an offense would be content with completing a 3 yard pass over the middle and hoping to get YAC. That's what makes those LBs so important. The CBs in a Cover3 are usually defending the deep sideline, one of the toughest areas to attack as an offense simply due to distance.

Well, keep in mind the pass rush and the defensive coverage work *together.* If you have good Corners *and* a good pass rush, the corners can sit tighter to the LOS, and the LB's can sit in the short zones more, and the corners and safties don't have to worry about deep throws (*if* you have an elite pass rush). The four linebackers and the safety now can squeeze those zones down to where even if the LB's are average in coverage - it's still a tough throw for a QB. Again, just one miss on a first down pass, and now the defense is in 2nd and 10. The defense at that point can go into pass rush mode, load up on more DB's, and pin their ears back, so to speak.