What's Kittles Value?

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn Kittle contract news.

yeah same, I need some sports related news.

I'll take anything right now.

I was up at the track today and a group of 5th graders ran an all-out 43m dash. I can post the race results but if you want a film breakdown it will have to wait till tomorrow.

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn Kittle contract news.

yeah same, I need some sports related news.

I'll take anything right now.

I was up at the track today and a group of 5th graders ran an all-out 43m dash. I can post the race results but if you want a film breakdown it will have to wait till tomorrow.

me and mayo will be here.

Originally posted by random49er:

Coaches would literally fistfight over the right to sign George Kittle,..if they could. I think it's just that you selfishly want the most we can get out of all of our great players so we can win as many games as possible,...which isin't at all a surprising view of a fan. I'd just suggest a lil more realism,...Kittle's extremely valuable and players like him dont grow on trees.

Franchises would fight over him on the open market but that number still isn't going to be 16 mil a year right now. Revenues in the NFL are likely to decrease by 1/3rd and attendance could struggle for years afterwards.
Cap wise they'll likely be borrowing against future years so they don't have to slash the cap but that explosion of $ just isn't there anymore. Dak, Mahomes, Kittle. Anyone looking for a beyond record shattering new contract is likely going to be disappointed.

Kittle is the best tight end in football by a considerable margin and he should be paid accordingly but it really needs to be in tight end range.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn Kittle contract news.

yeah same, I need some sports related news.

I'll take anything right now.

I was up at the track today and a group of 5th graders ran an all-out 43m dash. I can post the race results but if you want a film breakdown it will have to wait till tomorrow.

me and mayo will be here.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Kittle is the best tight end in football by a considerable margin and he should be paid accordingly but it really needs to be in tight end range.

Ideally,...it needs to be in the range of whatever teams would be willing to pay him if he were a FA. Players that have a lesser value to their teams shouldn't dictate the range he gets paid in.

Fortunately for us, we hold all of the marbles due to the CBA,...as has been said before.

Hopefully they give him an extension soon. I just bought his jersey. They finally have the stitched ones

Originally posted by 60sFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Per SI:

"Instead of paying Kittle $18 million in 2020, they can pay him $2.1 million -- that's what he's under contract for. Then in 2021, when he's an unrestricted free agent, the 49ers can give him the franchise tag, which pays tight ends roughly $10.6 million.

In 2022, the 49ers can give Kittle the franchise tag again. That would give him a 120-percent raise, and pay him $12.7 million.

And in 2023, the 49ers can give Kittle the franchise tag a third and final time. He would receive another 120-percent raise and earn $15.3 million. Then in 2024, when Kittle is 30, he can be a free agent. But the 49ers would have paid him only $39 million from 2020 to 2023, as opposed to $90 million for five years."

Per these #s, that averages out to about $10.18 Million over 4,.... and $12.87 Million the last 3.

Perhaps Kittle going this route is a risk, but if we're talking $13 Million a year to guarantee his services, where is the reward???

This is alot more interesting than any other deal there is for the 49ers to make, IMO. Because if you aren't going to pay a guy like Kittle,...then just who exactly are you willing to pay?

Like the article says,...the agent's just doing his job,....shouldn't be any cause for alarm aside from that. But the pressure is certainly on the 49ers to "do the right thing" if Kittle hasn't lost a step after being woefully underpaid the past couple of years.

Nice, thanks for the numbers...you gotta think those #s are the starting pt for SF in contract negotiations.

Actually in 2023, he would get 144% raise from 15.26 which would be 21.98M just to be accurate

I think i come down on this as stated but also agree with Random's sentiment , "if you aren't going to pay a guy like Kittle, then who are you going to pay.?"

It isn't like we have several of these running around loose, on the sideline. We don't. We have some superb talent, picked by both JL and KS, which as noted are going to have to get paid. Understood. But if we have to go back 30 some yrs to find another example like Kittle, the Joe and Jerry yrs, then i think we have to raise the bar for this unique one of a kind TE/WR/RB, who was rated highest (in non QBs) in the NFL, meaning he graded out as the best player in the NFL. That is a rare honor. And he was just several 1/100s off being even better when QBs were added in....he trailed Mahomes by just a tiny percentage point.

Note: when i first read this off the PFF site, Kittle was a fraction of a percentage point rated at 95.0 just behind Mahomes. In an article written by Bonilla on our site he lists Mahomes, Aaron Donald, Julio, and Quentin Nelson rated above George. That's fine, but i read off their site when this first came out that Kittle was just a hair behind top dog, Mahomes. So maybe they changed their calculations or maybe they added something else ....point is everyone recognizes the work PRODUCT (ie what George puts out on the field) as superstar quality. Best in the NFL, would be another way to put it. Just note what Bonilla quoted is contrary to what i read some 4 months ago ...on their site.

Will we have to wait another 30 yrs for another Montana, Rice, Kittle to come around, or do we see more headed our way. Nope, this is an aberration, and has to be treated as such. No one here would argue about kittle's salary if we didn't have others we need to pay. But point is WE got kittle, and we need to pay him to stay here...without wrecking a big chunk of the team. We can cut corners here and there, shave some salary off in different places, but i wonder.: just how bad is the NFL income for the yr going to hammered by covid and related issues? If cap next yr is substantially less, then we won't have money to pay Kittle, and best bet for George would be to tag him and wait for NFL $$$ to go back up.

If all stadiums were open to all, i wonder just how many would actually show up? NFL income almost surely has to dive and in that case, Kittle doesn't want to e redoing his contract at that time, in that he could get clobbered by the covid. But again we come to random's "if we don't pay kittle, who do we pay?" That is about as fair a question as there could be. And it has been over 30 yrs since we had that good showing,

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I think i come down on this as stated but also agree with Random's sentiment , "if you aren't going to pay a guy like Kittle, then who are you going to pay.?"

See that's not really the point IMO.

He SHOULD get paid a lot of money. He should reset the TE market.

I don't think SF is saying "we're not gonna pay him" either....at what point is it too much though? You gonna give a TE a blank check and make him set his own market?

In the end, I'm confident he'll be a Niner for life and the numbers will be worked out.

^^^ nah, NY, i'm Aware of that. It is just that someone saying "we can't pay over 20% of top TE in league" isn't necessarily right either. The market seems to be somewhere between what Julio (top paid WR) makes ($20 + change) and what's his name top TE who is making $10.5 per. As i said earlier, i would ask to pay less but settle for $15.

I have a good feeling for that # which is midpoint between top paid (Current) TE, and top paid WR. $15 looks like it fits in there just fine.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^ nah, NY, i'm Aware of that. It is just that someone saying "we can't pay over 20% of top TE in league" isn't necessarily right either. The market seems to be somewhere between what Julio (top paid WR) makes ($20 + change) and what's his name top TE who is making $10.5 per. As i said earlier, i would ask to pay less but settle for $15.

The highest paid TE is being paid 10.6M. That is the market. The market is not between Julio and Henry. 15M is an absurd number to pay a TE when the going rate for the "best" TE in football (since you can typically assume salary paid for services rendered represents quality) is 70% the number you suggest.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
^^^ nah, NY, i'm Aware of that. It is just that someone saying "we can't pay over 20% of top TE in league" isn't necessarily right either. The market seems to be somewhere between what Julio (top paid WR) makes ($20 + change) and what's his name top TE who is making $10.5 per. As i said earlier, i would ask to pay less but settle for $15.

I have a good feeling for that # which is midpoint between top paid (Current) TE, and top paid WR. $15 looks like it fits in there just fine.

We got people in here throwing out absurd numbers though Some people saying give him a fully guaranteed contract lol WTF.

I threw out something like 5yrs $70M with like $30M GTD...that's a f**k ton of money for a TE... WELL beyond the highest paid TE.

Thing is not every team uses a TE like we do. His market isn't gonna be the same as say a prime Julio/AJ Green if they hit FA...Also people keep bringing up the APY, but in reality what matters is the FGTD cash. You can move the APY around to help the cap yr to yr.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I think i come down on this as stated but also agree with Random's sentiment , "if you aren't going to pay a guy like Kittle, then who are you going to pay.?"

It isn't like we have several of these running around loose, on the sideline. We don't. We have some superb talent, picked by both JL and KS, which as noted are going to have to get paid. Understood. But if we have to go back 30 some yrs to find another example like Kittle, the Joe and Jerry yrs, then i think we have to raise the bar for this unique one of a kind TE/WR/RB, who was rated highest (in non QBs) in the NFL, meaning he graded out as the best player in the NFL. That is a rare honor. And he was just several 1/100s off being even better when QBs were added in....he trailed Mahomes by just a tiny percentage point.

Note: when i first read this off the PFF site, Kittle was a fraction of a percentage point rated at 95.0 just behind Mahomes. In an article written by Bonilla on our site he lists Mahomes, Aaron Donald, Julio, and Quentin Nelson rated above George. That's fine, but i read off their site when this first came out that Kittle was just a hair behind top dog, Mahomes. So maybe they changed their calculations or maybe they added something else ....point is everyone recognizes the work PRODUCT (ie what George puts out on the field) as superstar quality. Best in the NFL, would be another way to put it. Just note what Bonilla quoted is contrary to what i read some 4 months ago ...on their site.

Will we have to wait another 30 yrs for another Montana, Rice, Kittle to come around, or do we see more headed our way. Nope, this is an aberration, and has to be treated as such. No one here would argue about kittle's salary if we didn't have others we need to pay. But point is WE got kittle, and we need to pay him to stay here...without wrecking a big chunk of the team. We can cut corners here and there, shave some salary off in different places, but i wonder.: just how bad is the NFL income for the yr going to hammered by covid and related issues? If cap next yr is substantially less, then we won't have money to pay Kittle, and best bet for George would be to tag him and wait for NFL $$$ to go back up.

If all stadiums were open to all, i wonder just how many would actually show up? NFL income almost surely has to dive and in that case, Kittle doesn't want to e redoing his contract at that time, in that he could get clobbered by the covid. But again we come to random's "if we don't pay kittle, who do we pay?" That is about as fair a question as there could be. And it has been over 30 yrs since we had that good showing,

I think the bolded line is the salient point of this issue. I think everyone agrees that George needs to be paid. The question remains how much. I have no problem with them resetting the TE market for George $11 million or $12 million a year perhaps. But when people start throwing around numbers like $15 million or more then you have to start asking yourself how many additional players is Kittle worth. Lynch and Shanahan have both made the point that they are trying to build the team for the long haul,so that they can be competitive over the course of many years not just for the two or three year window that cap constraints usually allow for. There is little benefit of having a superstar player on your team if you can't afford to put a decent supporting cast around him but you can continue to compete if you have a roster of good players who you are able to rotate through the system.

The latter is the way the Patriots have done it and the former is the path that the Lions seem to have taken, and that has been, at least in one instance, without the constraints of the cap. Barry Sanders was the best running back of his generation, and you can certainly make the case that he was perhaps one of the top five backs of all time, but the Lions never finished better that 9-7 while he was playing. The same is true of Megatron. A top of the line WR who the Lions could never build a decent team around. Now a lot of that has to do with the general incompetence of the Lion's organization and perhaps is not directly related to the amount that they paid either of those guys, but the idea is the same. Is it better to have one superstar or a roster of solid players.

I think that, generally speaking, Lynch and Shanahan have shown that they have a better grasp of the team building process than the Lions have ever shown. Have there been some missteps, you bet, but the bottom line is that they rebuilt one of the worst rosters in the league in two years and have the team in a position to legitimately compete for the playoffs. It sucks that they had to move Buckner but it put them in a position to draft Kinlaw who they had targeted as a guy who could make an impact on their defensive line, which they have decided is what they want to be the strength of their team. Now they will have Kinlaw for five years, will he be as steady and durable as Buckner, hard to say, but they had a vision for what they want the team to be and trading Buck helped them to try and realize that vision.

To a certain extent the same logic applies to Kittle. They drafted Woerner specifically for what he brings to the team as a blocker in the running game. They have Dwelley who has demonstrated the ability to be at least a competent receiver. Are either of them Kittle, no, but together they can perhaps make up some of what George brings to the team on his own. At times like this I also go back to what Bill Walsh said, you can scheme offense but you need talent on defense. It would truly suck if Kittle's agent decided to price him out of the 49ers budget but the compensation they could get for him in return would allow them find other players who could help keep them competitive moving forward. For the record I REALLY want Kittle to stay, just not at the expense of the rest of the team.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn Kittle contract news.

yeah same, I need some sports related news.

I'll take anything right now.

I was up at the track today and a group of 5th graders ran an all-out 43m dash. I can post the race results but if you want a film breakdown it will have to wait till tomorrow.

me and mayo will be here.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn Kittle contract news.

yeah same, I need some sports related news.

I'll take anything right now.

I was up at the track today and a group of 5th graders ran an all-out 43m dash. I can post the race results but if you want a film breakdown it will have to wait till tomorrow.

me and mayo will be here.