What's Kittles Value?

Originally posted by matt49er:
5 years $90-100M

Kittle is a top 10 player in the game and the TE market has been b******t for years, hasn't budged in like 6 years. If I were George I wouldn't participate in anything until I'm paid.

The whole "TE market" argument is stupid. You're paying the player, not the position. It's not like Kittle is a punter. He's the engine that makes the entire offense go both passing and rushing.

First of all, very few teams (dare I say none) can both pay a TE 18-20M annually and remain competitive long term. Kittle is an impact player. He is a major cog in the 49ers' offense, but he isn't the offense. Further, he isn't playing defense / special teams. So, in fact, you are paying the position, not the player.

Further, while you may find the TE argument stupid, as is your right, NFL teams and agents fully understand salaries are based on position, first and foremost. Thus resulting in average quarterbacks making more money than non QB stars. That doesn't mean a player can't make above and beyond the average positional salary, but it certainly puts limits on the bounds of contract negotiations.

Kittle will reset the TE market. No doubt about that. It may or may not be with the 49ers. What is certain though, is Paraag isn't going to let one player put the team in financial straits. Nor should he.

Originally posted by matt49er:

Exactly! Kittle is everything to this offense!! You people are too tied to BS positional values. Some players are just special and Kittle is one of them.

Everything? Didn't they avg like 30 pts the two games he was out? He's not a QB lol

Dude this isn't the MLB where you can pay whomever you want as much as you feel like.

People stop acting like fans for a min...if he wants to be paid Julio money then let him play out his 5th rd contract and tag him for the next two yrs.

Salary structure is based on positional value as it stands now. Teams have to work within the budget. Let's be clear. The most important piece of the 49ers team is Kyle Shanahan. As good as Kittle is and he's the best TE in the NFL and maybe all time, he is better because of Kyle's ability to scheme. IMO, it would be a gift for him to get 4 years 64M. We can keep him anyway for 4 years at less than 40M if we want by paying him his salary this year and tagging him for 3 more years. If he sits, he doesn't get paid by anyone. The Niners FO wants to have a run like NE. Tough decisions will have to be made. We can't let any player, even Kittle, dictate how the franchise is run. I think he signs for 14M per year.

Two first rounders.

Then we have two drafts we can go for a new QB. No 1 pick next year, should Jimmy regress or stack the roster with some real quality pieces. We could fix the secondary and o line. With the money saved bring in Joey Bosa.

Yeah. Probably right around there.

Originally posted by btthepunk:
5yrs $85M

Originally posted by 60sFan:
Salary structure is based on positional value as it stands now. Teams have to work within the budget. Let's be clear. The most important piece of the 49ers team is Kyle Shanahan. As good as Kittle is and he's the best TE in the NFL and maybe all time, he is better because of Kyle's ability to scheme. IMO, it would be a gift for him to get 4 years 64M. We can keep him anyway for 4 years at less than 40M if we want by paying him his salary this year and tagging him for 3 more years. If he sits, he doesn't get paid by anyone. The Niners FO wants to have a run like NE. Tough decisions will have to be made. We can't let any player, even Kittle, dictate how the franchise is run. I think he signs for 14M per year.

thats fine.

I'm a little nervous cuz we couldn't cough up 8m for sanders. So its hard to say where paraag thinks team friendly ends.

Elegant argument.I think you may have it.

Originally posted by 60sFan:
Salary structure is based on positional value as it stands now. Teams have to work within the budget. Let's be clear. The most important piece of the 49ers team is Kyle Shanahan. As good as Kittle is and he's the best TE in the NFL and maybe all time, he is better because of Kyle's ability to scheme. IMO, it would be a gift for him to get 4 years 64M. We can keep him anyway for 4 years at less than 40M if we want by paying him his salary this year and tagging him for 3 more years. If he sits, he doesn't get paid by anyone. The Niners FO wants to have a run like NE. Tough decisions will have to be made. We can't let any player, even Kittle, dictate how the franchise is run. I think he signs for 14M per year.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by matt49er:

Exactly! Kittle is everything to this offense!! You people are too tied to BS positional values. Some players are just special and Kittle is one of them.

Everything? Didn't they avg like 30 pts the two games he was out? He's not a QB lol

Dude this isn't the MLB where you can pay whomever you want as much as you feel like.

People stop acting like fans for a min...if he wants to be paid Julio money then let him play out his 5th rd contract and tag him for the next two yrs.

This. The whole " Kittle is the offense" schtick is a bit tired. He's not Jimmy. Kittle is an important cog in the offense, but he's not a QB, the offense doesn't go through him and we're still more than capable of winning games without him. If you're going to site the week 10 MNF vs. Seattle as to why we need him so badly, remember that we were doing just fine until Sanders left the game.

Kittle's value should be above Hooper's contract, somewhere around $13.5 million per season.

Give him a 10 year deal worth $14 Million per with $100 Million guaranteed. But I really think they are just waiting to see what the Cap is going to be since nobody has any idea if the cap is going up or down after this upcoming season. I think he would have already been signed if not for this Covid-19 destroying the economy. And there really is no reason to have to sign him now. He is still under their control for the next couple of seasons isn't he?

Somewhere between the 15-17 mil range.

Originally posted by SFrush:
Somewhere between the 15-17 mil range.

Yep.

Originally posted by dlance:

Originally posted by matt49er:

Originally posted by dlance:

There is no way they can pay him 20 mil a yr. They could not pay Buckner 20 mil year so they traded him and drafted his replacement Is Kittle next?

Austin Hooper signed the biggest deal for a tight end in NFL history at four years and $42 million with the Cleveland Browns, an average annual salary at $10.5
I understand Kittle is better.

Austin Hooper 2019 Falcons 75 787 10.5 35 6
George Kittle 2019 49ers 85 1,053 12.4 61 5

Apples and Oranges. The team couldn't pay BOTH Buckner AND Armstead AND Ford knowing they have to pay Bosa in a few years.

Stop being so fascinated with the TE market. The fact is, Kittle is the 49ers offense. Look at the run game without him. The guy blocks like a LT, produces like a WR1. He's a top 10-15 player in the entire league and you're comparing him to Austin f**king Hooper.

That's funny you just compared him to a LT and a number 1 WR and you saying I should not compare him to the highest payed Tight end in the game?

I used those comparisons because the TE market is b******t and hasn't moved in ages, unlike WR & OT. Kittle is the best blocking TE by a mile, he led all players (at any position) in yards per route, is a YAC animal and this offense is s**t without him. He's the best player on the Niners roster and the only player even remotely close is Nick Bosa. And you want him paid in the same class as Austin flipping Hooper.

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by matt49er:

5 years $90-100M

Kittle is a top 10 player in the game and the TE market has been b******t for years, hasn't budged in like 6 years. If I were George I wouldn't participate in anything until I'm paid.

The whole "TE market" argument is stupid. You're paying the player, not the position. It's not like Kittle is a punter. He's the engine that makes the entire offense go both passing and rushing.

First of all, very few teams (dare I say none) can both pay a TE 18-20M annually and remain competitive long term. Kittle is an impact player. He is a major cog in the 49ers' offense, but he isn't the offense. Further, he isn't playing defense / special teams. So, in fact, you are paying the position, not the player.

Further, while you may find the TE argument stupid, as is your right, NFL teams and agents fully understand salaries are based on position, first and foremost. Thus resulting in average quarterbacks making more money than non QB stars. That doesn't mean a player can't make above and beyond the average positional salary, but it certainly puts limits on the bounds of contract negotiations.

Kittle will reset the TE market. No doubt about that. It may or may not be with the 49ers. What is certain though, is Paraag isn't going to let one player put the team in financial straits. Nor should he.

So your argument is you can pay him enough to reset the market but not $18....what's the difference $3-4M/year? So a Tevin Coleman type of deal would have to be sacrificed and that would ruin our cap would it?

The Niners aren't paying top dollar for any of their WRs or CBs which many teams are, we would simply be paying a TE top money instead of a WR. The caps going up, we have flexibility in ALL of our current long term deals. We can certainly afford to keep an elite player for what he's worth.

Last point, I do agree contracts are in part based on positional values. Those get blown up, a RB just got $16M/year, the TE market hasn't moved, someone is gonna have to blow it up at some point and the Niners got the right player to do it. He's not a guy who can be replaced

I love Kittle, he likes the 49ers, but he hired an agent who wants to break the bank. The challenge is the Niners hold ALL of the leverage.

2020- Salary figure 2 million (which is raised by CBA due to performance)
2021- Franchise Tag- I say go with non exclusive so the Niners get two 1's if someone breaks the bank.
2022- Franchise tag again- same non exlusive.

So Parag and Jed York have this as a base line. 2 milllion plus 10 million plus 14,000. 3 years 26 million vs 5 year 85 million with 50 million guaranteed. Good teams have these problems, lets not get sucked into dedicated a crazy amount of money of the cap to a TE. Let Kittle play 2020 for his contract that is mandated by CBA, let him play as a tagged player, this was negotiated by the NFL and the players association so it is agreed upon.

End of story