SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS at ARIZONA CARDINALS - 2020 Week 16

Originally posted by 49erfaninPA:

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
If Colin didn't win a pointless game in week 16 we would have picked 1st and took Myles Garrett. If anything you just laid out the case why you want to throw some games. The difference between the #1 prospect and #2 prospect often times is Manning and Leaf. Winning a nothing game so you get the choice of the runts instead of the Golden ticket is foolish.

That being said it doesn't apply here. Shanny beating up on a divisional foe when they needed a win carries more weight than the 8th to 13th pick.

This is so true. The biggest and best talents always go in the top 10 which is why it's so essential that you get those picks. Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, Brady. It extends beyond just QBs too. JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, TJ Watt... Even our team, Patrick Willis, Jerry Rice, Montana, Lott... I mean all of our greats came in that top 10.

So you losers just keep talking about mid to late picks and get those guys but I'll keep it safe with my sure fire top 10 like Alex Smith, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and RGIII.

Willis, Rice and Montana were not top ten picks. Lott was highest at #8.

And I don't believe Rodgers, Wilson, or Brady were top ten. Same for either of the Watts.

Point is with good scouting great talent is there outside the top ten.

PERSONALLY, all drafts are just by LUCK.... there are draft years where a player really is a CAN'T MISS type of guy.. like the Bruce Smith year, or the infamous 1983 class.. the 1989 was an awesome draft as well in IMO...

but bottom line, I love to grade the picks after the 2nd round... that's where the games really begin..

u see, in the 1st two rounds, the players landed on those round because of their talent.. it's 75% talent and 25% will .. they are so talented that they forget that the NFL are full of players similar to them... while the later rounds are "talented" players with a " will to be great ".. . those IMO is the part that is fun after the 1st two rounds.. TEAMS need to find those players and love to develop them...

One of the teams that I respect the most year in and year out are the Steelers... they DON'T draft players that is or are out of their system and requirements.. year in and year out, they find LBs and DBs even OLs that love to work ... something about that organization that when you are drafted or even signed as a free agent, they really mold the players to be like one of them..

I didn't stress out about tanking properly this year. I expect ineptitude from this franchise at this point. Best of luck to Lynch and Shanahan in their quest to find a franchise QB. Until they do, they're just wasting time.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all Niner fans! Have a blessed 2021!

Originally posted by InfiniteEight:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Young2Owens:

What makes that the plan? When it's all said and done, Mac Jones could have a better career than Zach Wilson. Draft position isn't the be all end all, even when it comes to QBs.

Who says Jones will be there? You? They might have to move up for him just as well. QBs always get pushed up.

Again this game did nothing to benefit them really this yr or in the draft...they're not going to the playoffs, they still have a f**k ton of players they have to replace and upgrade. Great moral victory, cool. Means nothing after next week.

Dude, you're talking about the 49ers as a whole yet conveniently forget that this team is made up of individuals trying to perform for job continuity.

Jeff Wilson - undrafted RB showcased his abilities and will definitely stay with the team or get picked up quick by someone else

Jason Verrett - 2 years not even able to play due to injury. Is going to get a nice contract to return to the 49ers or will get picked up by another team

Kerry Hyder - career high 8.5 sacks; is going to be given a nice contract

Juice - vying for his last big payday showed his versatility as a FB and why he should continue to be highest-paid FB

Robert Saleh - his injury-riddled defense kept a playoff potential team to only 12 points. Is going to have several teams overpay him to be their next head coach

Continue to say what you want, but this win means nothing only to you, Jose, and others that are upset on this win hurting our draft slotting. This win today means the world to many men and their families.

So much this. Even showcase players off for trade capital.

I'm still looking at the bright side, if not for the injuries, this team would be picking at the absolute bottom next draft.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

and yet you forget to read where I've said teams don't tank...I root for the players and are happy for them.

Doesn't mean I can't say the win is pretty pointless overall and doesn't help the team as far as the future goes.

Both things can be true.

Wrong, because you continue to only judge "benefiting the team" by wins and losses. In this case losing for draft position.

Culture matters, behavior matters, leadership matters, loyalty matters.

If you don't believe that, you need to read more history, philosophy, human nature, and human psychology.

Because you continue to be 100% wrong

I wonder how much, if at all, Trent Williams puts value into yesterday's win. Perhaps he sees a team that didn't quit on Kyle and is okay coming back to a losing team. Rather than sign with a winning team, he comes back in 2021 after seeing an injured team that hasn't quit on the coach, and should be better when the injured return.

Originally posted by thl408:

I wonder how much, if at all, Trent Williams puts value into yesterday's win. Perhaps he sees a team that didn't quit on Kyle and is okay coming back to a losing team. Rather than sign with a winning team, he comes back in 2021 after seeing an injured team that hasn't quit on the coach, and should be better when the injured return.

Let's hope so. He has already said that the interest to re-sign is mutual so my fingers are crossed. Clearly, the injuries derailed the whole season. Even just a healthy Jimmy probably adds 2 or 3 wins (NFC East teams) and makes us a playoff team.

Keeping the cards out of the playoffs > the 5ish spots we fell in the draft.

Our ability to rush the way we did gives me optimism for our future against that team..... they're defense has given us fits the last two years to the point that I thought they just had our zone-run offense figured out

Originally posted by 5thSFG:

Keeping the cards out of the playoffs > the 5ish spots we fell in the draft.

Our ability to rush the way we did gives me optimism for our future against that team..... they're defense has given us fits the last two years to the point that I thought they just had our zone-run offense figured out

They ain't figure s**t out, we just have to execute blocking wise and we beat them. It's what we did on d that was very impressive and hopefully Saleh's replacement can figure it out, their offense will be more of a concern than their d figuring out our running schemes. What's funny is how most thought them drafting Simmons was gonna be an issue yet he's barely a factor

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Did it matter when we had our pick of anyone in the draft besides Myles Garrett and we took Solomon Thomas?

We selected Jerry Rice at 16, which is about where we are right now. Would picking 6th have been better?

It makes no sense to lose for a better draft slot. The same loser teams pick in the top 5-7 every year. What does their draft slot get them? When you stop trying, the team knows, and it normalizes a culture of losing. You try your hardest to win every game and let the chips fall where they may.

If Colin didn't win a pointless game in week 16 we would have picked 1st and took Myles Garrett. If anything you just laid out the case why you want to throw some games. The difference between the #1 prospect and #2 prospect often times is Manning and Leaf. Winning a nothing game so you get the choice of the runts instead of the Golden ticket is foolish.

That being said it doesn't apply here. Shanny beating up on a divisional foe when they needed a win carries more weight than the 8th to 13th pick.

My point is, you can't EVER get into the mindset of losing because you might get someone better in the draft. Its a toxic way to operate. You try to win every single game regardless, and where you pick is where you pick. The players are risking their health each week, and their performance is tied to their future pay, so nobody is going half speed or playing to lose on the field. Execs cant look their team in the eye and tell them they have to go risk their health in a game they prefer to lose.

My takeaway from this game was that the Cardinals run D was so bad that it opened up the passing game for CJ Beathard to actually have success. His statline looked better than his actual performance on the field, but it was his best career game. Considering this is his first start of the entire season, and hes a below average emergency QB, the Cardinals should be incredibly embarrassed.

Kittle on a pitch count, Aiyuk left in the cold because Beathard didn't look past his check downs very often, and Deebo out. Still somehow we scored what SHOULD have been 27 pts.

Its a shame were probably losing Saleh. Id love to see the D at full strength next year after putting together an incredible season with just spare parts.

The error wasn't winning a meaningless game to lose out on Myles Garrett. The mistake for both the 49ers and Browns was passing on the quarterbacks in hindsight.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Does draft position matter? Sure. Does it matter more than a bunch of other things? Not really. Otherwise the Jaguars, Jets and Texans would be running the league.



In the 49ers case, if they lost out and every other game went in their favor, they were looking at picking 8 or 9 versus 15 or 16. Not that huge a gap in talent. More important is nailing the picks as there will be plenty of talent available throughout the 1st round.

Correct

Originally posted by stefano89:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Nice way to really mess up the draft position. A useless win in a wasted season. Which will only drive our draft position much lower. This team is so bad. We need a higher pick. Classic 49ers. Mess up on all ends.

A higher pick, so we can draft a guy like Solomon Thomas again? Draft position doesn't matter. You can find Fred Warner, George Kittle, and Raheem Mostert without a top tier pick. Worry about winning at all times. Bill Walsh said it best. "Champions act like champions before they are champions". Not trying in order to help your draft slot is not "acting like champions", its acting like losers who will be picking in the top 10 for years to come.

Your reply lost all credibility after "draft position doesn't matter". It' clearly does.

It does matter and I would much rather land top 10 this year. We need it. That was a useless late season win. It doesn't do much for us at all. Except move our draft position down.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

It does matter and I would much rather land top 10 this year. We need it. That was a useless late season win. It doesn't do much for us at all. Except move our draft position down.

It's like the useless late season win in 2018 that cost 9ers Bosa.

Wait