Evolution of the Quarterback Position

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
There is absolutely no correlation between being a mobile/scrambling QB and getting injured. I dont understand why people continue to run with this idea as fact, when its not even close to being that.

Why do they make rules to protect the QB? Injuries happen in this game, a lot. If the QB is the most important player on the team then letting him run and take shots from defenders isn't a smart thing to do. It's not about the "big" injuries. It's the accumulation of hits on the body, that over the course of a season will limit the ability of the QB. If you can win without your most important player getting smashed then that's the road to take.

Brady is an outlier not an archetype.

The QB is changing just like the role of the "Big Man" in basketball. Gone is the big strong giant that can only overpower or finesse opponents in the paint. Today's big guy has a little power and can shoot anywhere on the court. The QB is similarly changing in football. Gone are the days when 11 guys have to worry about everyone else but the QB. The QB is a dual threat player that is a great pocket passer and a threat to run.

Contrary to popular opinion, QBs like Kap and Lamar aren't a dual threat. They came from gimmicky read-option, run-first systems and needed to be developed into pocket passers. You take away the run and rarely will they beat you just from the pocket. That's how these QBs get figured out.

QBs like Mahomes, Watson, Fields and Lance are true dual threat QBs. These QBs will tear you up from the pocket but will also gain yards on the ground if the play breaks down.

I think a lot of the rule changes have optimized dual threat/scrambling QBs. Not just the ability to run for a 1st down but if they get hit aggressively its an automatic 1st down. I think we saw that last year on 3rd down with both Murray and Wilson.

Originally posted by LottOfDefense:
I think a lot of the rule changes have optimized dual threat/scrambling QBs. Not just the ability to run for a 1st down but if they get hit aggressively its an automatic 1st down. I think we saw that last year on 3rd down with both Murray and Wilson.

Rule Changes have primarily protected QB's in the pocket.

Can't hit them high or low and touch the face mask ect.

Who will the 49ers select? That should not take a detective to determine. Lawrence and Wilson are going at #1 and #2. Jones has a DUI and Fields has epilepsy. LANCE is a virtual genius, is 6'4", 226, built like a linebacker and runs like a deer with a shotgun for an arm. ANY QUESTIONS??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnIkfIiYGE

Originally posted by frenchtoast:
Who will the 49ers select? That should not take a detective to determine. Lawrence and Wilson are going at #1 and #2. Jones has a DUI and Fields has epilepsy. LANCE is a virtual genius, is 6'4", 226, built like a linebacker and runs like a deer with a shotgun for an arm. ANY QUESTIONS??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnIkfIiYGE

WE need to put aside these QBs talent for now.. the question we need to ask should be..

LANCE - just like the way defenses figured out MICHAEL VICK, what can Lance do if defenses takeaway those running lanes?

MAC - put aside Jimmy's injuries, how much is MAC an improvement over him ??

FIELDS - as much as I believe that he should have stayed for another year, he just has the least question mark around him..

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:
I think the issue here is that people keep mistaking flashy for dynamic. Lamar Jackson is flashy, and personally I think he'll be out of the league in 5 years. "That's crazy!" I hear you say but we watched it with Vince Young, RG3, Cap, Vick, and others.

Here is what you want:
Smart
Accurate
Arm to take advantage of those smarts and accuracy to hit the receivers at all 3 levels of the field.

Every now and then you get a Wilson that scrambles and makes magic but I would argue that's a bigger issue with o-line than something to evaluate in my QB.

Give me a Mahommes/Rodgers or hell, even a Brees that can see pressure, move enough to extend and hit that receiver 40 yards away the d gave up on. Not the dude that tucks and trucks. They flash and fizzle, they don't win for 15 years.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by miked1978:
I remember going through this with Kap and how the read option was the future of the QB. Everyone wants a dual threat QB until that QB loses his legs a few years in the league. I think the ideal QB is Mahomes & Aaron Rodgers. Not a Mike Vick type.

Personally I think a QB has to be a QB first before his athleticism can pay off. Steve Young won a super bowl because he could play in the pocket and *occasionally* scramble. Whereas if you go back to Colin (for whatever reason) he was really bad playing QB in the pocket and his athleticism didn't help him play QB one bit.

I'll just take a **blind guess** at it, and hopefully some folks will respond to my guess and give me a better number --- but I think athleticism is worth only at most 7% of a total QBs overall performance. In other words athleticism only matters in 7% of the plays a Coach would call on GameDay. That's about 1 to 3 plays a game, and that could be a difference maker-- if the QB is a good pocket QB in the first place. If not, then his athleticism is worthless.

Thank you JD and good points RedGoldSquatch -- if my numbers stand (again somebody please give me better numbers than what I have) then a QB's task is being in the pocket 90+ percent of the time. So if you have an athletic QB and if you do the Greg Roman scheme (which we had here during the Kaepernick years) it's basically a run offense if your QB cannot pass. In other words -- it's a one dimensional triple option run offense (in my mind). Just bring up all the defenders and defend the LOS and all the options -- if your QB is worthless in the pocket the way Kaepernick was. NFL defenses will might have some difficulty with those offenses in the regular season because of a lack of talent, but not in the playoffs when those defenses are top 5 in talent. Those kinds of defenses will shut down one dimensional offenses -- *specially* in the playoffs. You need an elite pocket QB when you get into the playoffs. Playoff Defenses there are too good and Playoff offenses are usually elite multi-dimensional ground and are attacks too. A good pocket QB in the playoffs is a must (even better if he's an athlete too - but the pocket skills are -- I think -- much more important in the playoffs).

Originally posted by 9moon:
WE need to put aside these QBs talent for now.. the question we need to ask should be..

LANCE - just like the way defenses figured out MICHAEL VICK, what can Lance do if defenses takeaway those running lanes?

MAC - put aside Jimmy's injuries, how much is MAC an improvement over him ??

FIELDS - as much as I believe that he should have stayed for another year, he just has the least question mark around him..

Wrong. You never put a QB's talent aside. Question for Mac. How big a part of your life is alcohol? You'd have to put his talent for being mobile aside because he doesn't have it.

Question for FIELDS. Why did you keep your epilepsy a secret? How sure can we be that a vicious hit won't trigger your epilepsy? That's NOT a little question mark!

How often have the 49ers "taken away those running lanes" from Wilson or Lamar? In addition to being by far the most dangerous runner, Lance has 48 TD passes and 1 Int. I see why you want to discount his talent. His upside is far less risky than the other two.

People aren't saying we should take Fields or Lance because they're mobile, they're saying it because they're BETTER. Jones isn't significantly better at anything passing wise, and hes very inferior athletically.

Why draft a QB who can ONLY throw from the pocket when you can draft a guy who is just as smart and just as accurate, but with a big arm, and who can extend the play after the initial plan falls through.

The QB who can both pass from the pocket and throw on the run is the future of the position. Not sure how much longer Shanahan has to get beat by the likes of Wilson, Mahomes, and Josh Allen before he realizes that as long as he gets someone who commits to the structure of the offense, getting additional skills that extend plays is the FAR better player.

"Personally I think a QB has to be a QB first before his athleticism can pay off. - "GIEDI"

I agree and that's another reason I'll go with LANCE. The guy is enormous and coming out of high school, all the big schools he visited took one look at his size and build and told him they wanted to convert him to a linebacker or safety. He turned down every one because since he was a little kid he only envisioned himself playing QB. So he turned down opportunities at big schools who wanted to convert him to attend NORTH DAKOTA STATE. He knew all he had to do was demonstrate his talent and that would convince everyone. At 19, he had 48TD passes and a single INT. This kid's potential is SUPERIOR. He's a savant. His coach would give him film of the opponent's team and he'd return with a design for how to stop it and remembered all the plays. He's way smarter football wise than the others and THAT will be what impresses Shanahan the most. We may have another FORREST GUMP!

Originally posted by frenchtoast:
"Personally I think a QB has to be a QB first before his athleticism can pay off. - "GIEDI"

I agree and that's another reason I'll go with LANCE. The guy is enormous and coming out of high school, all the big schools he visited took one look at his size and build and told him they wanted to convert him to a linebacker or safety. He turned down every one because since he was a little kid he only envisioned himself playing QB. So he turned down opportunities at big schools who wanted to convert him to attend NORTH DAKOTA STATE. He knew all he had to do was demonstrate his talent and that would convince everyone. At 19, he had 48TD passes and a single INT. This kid's potential is SUPERIOR. He's a savant. His coach would give him film of the opponent's team and he'd return with a design for how to stop it and remembered all the plays. He's way smarter football wise than the others and THAT will be what impresses Shanahan the most. We may have another FORREST GUMP!

Forrest Gump was retarded though.

Originally posted by frenchtoast:

Originally posted by 9moon:
WE need to put aside these QBs talent for now.. the question we need to ask should be..

LANCE - just like the way defenses figured out MICHAEL VICK, what can Lance do if defenses takeaway those running lanes?

MAC - put aside Jimmy's injuries, how much is MAC an improvement over him ??

FIELDS - as much as I believe that he should have stayed for another year, he just has the least question mark around him..

Wrong. You never put a QB's talent aside. Question for Mac. How big a part of your life is alcohol? You'd have to put his talent for being mobile aside because he doesn't have it.

Question for FIELDS. Why did you keep your epilepsy a secret? How sure can we be that a vicious hit won't trigger your epilepsy? That's NOT a little question mark!

How often have the 49ers "taken away those running lanes" from Wilson or Lamar? In addition to being by far the most dangerous runner, Lance has 48 TD passes and 1 Int. I see why you want to discount his talent. His upside is far less risky than the other two.

the point I was trying to make is that as well as they played last year, well aside Baby Face Trey, we should focus some on the questions that they carry around..

MAC - if you're pointing at his mobility, then he should not be the draft knowing we have a bunch of GOONES in the OL..

FIELDS - did his epilepsy deny him from playing great for the last 6 years ??

WILSON - how low can you go ??

We'll see soon. They'll probably end up with Wilson...

Originally posted by frenchtoast:
We'll see soon. They'll probably end up with Wilson...

Or kyle pitts