Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
That qb on the rookie deal has to actually be capable and good. This one has a ways to go

That would be an opinion since you and everyone else has only seen him play a handful of snaps, one of which resulting in a TD pass. I have no doubt in my mind he'd be ready, at the least, by next season.

We are all hoping so.
And yes, it is an opinion, but a well informed one. If you watch him play and think he'd be ok in obvious passing downs, in the pocket, which are essential in every game, then you aren't watching the right stuff.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
That qb on the rookie deal has to actually be capable and good. This one has a ways to go

That would be an opinion since you and everyone else has only seen him play a handful of snaps, one of which resulting in a TD pass. I have no doubt in my mind he'd be ready, at the least, by next season.

We are all hoping so.
And yes, it is an opinion, but a well informed one. If you watch him play and think he'd be ok in obvious passing downs, in the pocket, which are essential in every game, then you aren't watching the right stuff.

So you are basing your "well informed" opinion on 3 preseason games because that is all we had to watch. His one regular season throw from the pocket was a TD, so it has to be those games right? Just making sure I'm watching the right stuff.

we get up 10 and i expect to see more of Baby Boy Lance !!

LETS GO NINERSSSS !!!

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I get the point. My point is, you really think we'd be better off with 33 year old corners over Jimmy G??? I'd rather they find a guy in the 2nd round, give Verrett another chance for cheap and look for another guy in the 4th or look for a cheap trade.

Hold on, you think we keeping Jimmy for next season too JD?

I believe there's no guarantee for anything. Kyle has shown he doesn't care about draft slots for playing time. ST was a situational player in his 3rd year after being #3 overall. Aiyuk isn't getting the Lions share of reps even after we traded a 1st, 4th and 6th round picks for him.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
That qb on the rookie deal has to actually be capable and good. This one has a ways to go

That would be an opinion since you and everyone else has only seen him play a handful of snaps, one of which resulting in a TD pass. I have no doubt in my mind he'd be ready, at the least, by next season.

We are all hoping so.
And yes, it is an opinion, but a well informed one. If you watch him play and think he'd be ok in obvious passing downs, in the pocket, which are essential in every game, then you aren't watching the right stuff.

So you are basing your "well informed" opinion on 3 preseason games because that is all we had to watch. His one regular season throw from the pocket was a TD, so it has to be those games right? Just making sure I'm watching the right stuff.

Ok then, if he's not that far off, what good reason would there be for Lance not being in when we were up by 17 points or whatever it was on Sunday?
And it's not hard to see that he isn't comfortable in the pocket. The play Sunday was a 1 read throw set up by Shanny.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
We are all hoping so.
And yes, it is an opinion, but a well informed one. If you watch him play and think he'd be ok in obvious passing downs, in the pocket, which are essential in every game, then you aren't watching the right stuff.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
All this while being 19th in offensive plays ran - so let's just put to bed the idea that the defense was giving the offense so many more plays as the reason why we had such a good offense.

Doesn't really address that though. I'd need to literally see the amount of plays other teams ran and their time of possession to really clue me in on how well the defense did in having the offense get the ball.

As you know,...a drive can be 5 plays or 15 plays, which can really throw those #s you mentioned out of whack, yet not give me a clue how well the defense did in getting me the ball back throughout.

That's where Yards per play and total yards would come in....which I mentioned but you deleted.....
If a team were scoring points because the defense was giving them short fields or constantly getting the ball back you would expect them to be tops in plays ran, lower in yards per play and lower in total yards.
That's not the case. Lower in plays ran, higher in yards per play and tops in total yards along with tops in points would show that the offense was productive as a product unto itself.

Again, all those stats were posted but you deleted.......

Sorry for cropping,....I was just focusing on the 19th in plays ran while not having a clue where that comes in to even begin to relate.

Was just about to ask you once again but ahh what the heck, I'll post what I see:

We were 19th in offensive plays ran and 2nd in rushing attempts.

On defense,...unsurprisingly we were 6th in fewest total defensive plays (or in other words, 27th compared to 19th on offense), 8th in points against, 6th in takeaways...and 4th in fewest 1st downs allowed.

As anyone knows, if you aren't allowing 1st downs, you're certainly getting the offense the ball back at a high clip.

Whether the offense then goes on to produce 5 play drives or chew up clock with 15 play drives doesn't really speak to how much the offense getting it back to begin with. So a defense doesn't "give offenses plays",...they give them the ball.

That's why I wouldnt have much focus on offensive #s like plays if I really want to see how well the defense helped out. I'd naturally look at defensive #s for that.

You're chicken and egg-ing.

You're assuming that the defense was superb and that's helped the offense. You're not considering that the offense was superb, especially running the ball and chewing clock, letting the D rest and that's why our defense looked better.

You have to look at the totality.
If it was only the defense playing well, you'd expect us to be low in plays ran, lower in yards gained, lower in yards per play.

You'd also expect the defense to be average in plays ran but lower in 1st downs and so on.

I believe you've weighted too much of the success to the defense. It's been an easy narrative to run with to discredit Jimmy.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
That qb on the rookie deal has to actually be capable and good. This one has a ways to go

That would be an opinion since you and everyone else has only seen him play a handful of snaps, one of which resulting in a TD pass. I have no doubt in my mind he'd be ready, at the least, by next season.

We are all hoping so.
And yes, it is an opinion, but a well informed one. If you watch him play and think he'd be ok in obvious passing downs, in the pocket, which are essential in every game, then you aren't watching the right stuff.

So you are basing your "well informed" opinion on 3 preseason games because that is all we had to watch. His one regular season throw from the pocket was a TD, so it has to be those games right? Just making sure I'm watching the right stuff.

Ok then, if he's not that far off, what good reason would there be for Lance not being in when we were up by 17 points or whatever it was on Sunday?
And it's not hard to see that he isn't comfortable in the pocket. The play Sunday was a 1 read throw set up by Shanny.

That's a good question and I don't have an answer for that, I would definitely have put him in up 17 and with Jimmy's injury history. That obviously bit us on the other side of the ball with JV.

The bolded. If you think that is something Shanny only does with Trey then I no longer want to take part in this conversation.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I get the point. My point is, you really think we'd be better off with 33 year old corners over Jimmy G??? I'd rather they find a guy in the 2nd round, give Verrett another chance for cheap and look for another guy in the 4th or look for a cheap trade.

Hold on, you think we keeping Jimmy for next season too JD?

I believe there's no guarantee for anything. Kyle has shown he doesn't care about draft slots for playing time. ST was a situational player in his 3rd year after being #3 overall. Aiyuk isn't getting the Lions share of reps even after we traded a 1st, 4th and 6th round picks for him.

No guarantees for anything is true but you and I both know that this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than the examples you provided. This was the biggest move in franchise history, IMO, for a QB, that we used 3 1st and a 3rd to get. Not a DT or WR. I get you love Jimmy, but that type of move unfortunately tells me that our FO/Coach may not share that same love for him as you do. Nobody can convince me that everything that happened in the off-season topped off by this trade was only due to Jimmy's inability to stay healthy. We'll see but if I were to place a bet on this, Jimmy will not be with us next season no matter what he does in this one.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
What gives me confidence is his entire body of work. Those playoff games, there was no need to throw the ball. Why give you opponent any opening? It's not just a pick. Your line could let a guy through unblocked and get your qb killed, strip sack, receiver could have it bounce off his hands for a pick(happened 3 times that year).

They were averaging like 7 yard a carry and our D was suffocating both teams. Chew the clock, mitigate any risk and get to the SB. Don't know why that's so crazy to understand.

I've been over all the other great running performances and shows they were all competitive games, that's why the qb's threw more. We blew both teams out.

Jimmy is like 6-1 for game winning drives. I'll trust a guy who has proven that many times to deliver in the playoffs than a rookie who hasn't hardly played in 500 days.

Thank you for being mature and answering the question without getting defensive JD. I understand the reservations on the kid and his inexperience, but wasn't 2019 Jimmy's first full season as a starter too? I guess I have a harder time knocking someone for lacking a body of work when he hasn't had the chance to have a body of work to knock yet.

You're completely missing my point about the playoffs. You don't need to explain all that to me lol. I just think that Trey can also get us to the SB, not only the playoffs, if his route to the SB is the same as the one Jimmy had to get through in 2019. That route and game plan consisting of a heavily reliant run game and defense.

Kyle has said this in the past, his game plan going in to those games wasn't heavily reliant on the run - it was aiming for balance but he changed it up during the game because the run game was rocking so well and the defense was dominant. I really don't believe it had anything to do with Jimmy G. That being said, I doubt our path to the SB is going to be the same. We know that Jimmy G's arm and our run game can be incredibly productive. One of the best in the league.
In 2019 we were 2nd in points scored, 4th in yards gained, 5th in yards per play.

All this while being 19th in offensive plays ran - so let's just put to bed the idea that the defense was giving the offense so many more plays as the reason why we had such a good offense.

So, stopping our offense is no easy task when we have a good scheme tied in with a quarterback who can run the passing offense well. We've all seen how non-effective the offense can be if we don't have a qb running it efficiently or turning the ball over.
Again - to bring it back home. I see zero reason to want to move to Trey and I haven't seen anything that would suggest that this season he'd be able to lead an efficient passing game that ties into the run game.
I get that he'll bring more to the run game, but we need him to be an efficient passer more than we need his added ability in the run game. Even if you believe one to be equal to the other, the sum of the total is lesser than the parts.
An efficient passing game married to our wide zone is incredibly, incredibly effective. Having an explosive zone-read+wide zone with a less efficient passing game isn't going to be as effective against the top teams, IMO.

Trey Lance hasn't outplayed JimmyG so it makes sense for him to remain a backup. Lance has unique talents you can use him for in certain situations so that is helpful, but he still has much to learn about reading defenses and making timely and accurate throws.

also, JimmyG was phenomenal last week so the old saying applies here, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
And who would these pro bowl corners be? There aint a single pro bowl corner, who'll be on the right side of 31 available next off-season. You gonna give a multi-year, big guaranteed contract to Chris Harris or Joe Haden or Patrick Peterson? Gilmore will be 33 next season and Kyle Fuller 31 - if he even makes it to FA.

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/

I'll take any of the above please

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I get the point. My point is, you really think we'd be better off with 33 year old corners over Jimmy G??? I'd rather they find a guy in the 2nd round, give Verrett another chance for cheap and look for another guy in the 4th or look for a cheap trade.

Since when have 4th round corners worked out for us?

No way. If you trade get a great cb. Not a good one.
Just in our division we have:
DK Metcalf, Lockette, Hopkins, Woods, Cupp and teams

In the NFC we have:
GB Adams and TB Evans, Godwin and Antonio Brown.

If we play in the SB we may have to play:
T Hill, Diggs, OBJ or Landry, D Johnson, Ju Ju and Claypool

We are in Dire need of a good cb

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I get the point. My point is, you really think we'd be better off with 33 year old corners over Jimmy G??? I'd rather they find a guy in the 2nd round, give Verrett another chance for cheap and look for another guy in the 4th or look for a cheap trade.

Since when have 4th round corners worked out for us?

No way. If you trade get a great cb. Not a good one.
Just in our division we have:
DK Metcalf, Lockette, Hopkins, Woods, Cupp and teams

In the NFC we have:
GB Adams and TB Evans, Godwin and Antonio Brown.

If we play in the SB we may have to play:
T Hill, Diggs, OBJ or Landry, D Johnson, Ju Ju and Claypool

We are in Dire need of a good cb

Gilmore is the guy, but probably out of our budget. He's just sitting out waiting to get paid.

I'm willing to give up substantial assets to get a legit corner.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I'm willing to give up substantial assets to get a legit corner.

THEN you gonna like my proposal to the Pats..

Deebo for Gilmore and a 2nd rounder