The 2021 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Most of the league views Jimmy as a bottom half QB. Somewhere between 16-20. He works in a system like Kyle's that rely's on the run and the short quick passing game. He likely wouldn't do very well in a system that called for him to carry the load and make a lot of big plays.

And how many systems are there like that in the league? There is a difference between having a QB who is able to extend plays and create when a play breaks down and having a "system" that requires a QB to "carry the load and make big plays". if that's the case your system probably isn't very good or your players. One of the knocks on Rodgers floating around last year was that his coaches felt he was leaving too many plays on the field because he was relying too much on his ability to make something "bigger" happen. Yeah, Jimmy throws some bonehead picks from time to time but how many games has that actually cost them?

He had the strip sack for a TD against Seattle in their first 2019 match-up but he still brought the team back and put them in a position to win the game, and they would have won if their fill in kicker hadn't shanked a last second field goal from pretty much the same distance he had hit on earlier. Jimmy's deep ball isn't great but he is pretty accurate in the mid ranges, has a really quick release and very quick feet moving away from the line. He has proven that he is good enough to take the team to the Super Bowl, which I think is what everyone in the organization wants this year.

I think Lance has has some legitimate upside. Based on a pretty small sample size he seems like he throws a better deep ball than Jimmy and is almost certainly a more fluid athlete. What he lacks right now is experience. As I said in another post, right now he probably doesn't even know what he doesn't know about playing QB at an NFL level. By all accounts he is a smart guy and willing to learn so his time will probably come, maybe just not this year. I don't think the organization would see a lot of upside in giving Lance extensive on the job training if it meant they might not make the playoffs, which is clearly their goal.

Though you wouldn't know it from what is going on in the country these days knowledge and experience are valuable assets to have. More important in most ways than pure physical ability. Right now Jimmy has that in spades over Lance which is what gives him the edge at the moment and is why he will probably be the starter this year. After that who knows.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
If 2019 is the outlier, then the problem is Shanahan. I know his s**t don't stink on the zone, but I've yet to see him as a good head coach as opposed to a good play designer.

He built this roster from scratch, installed a system that is proven to work, and the players like him. What exactly makes you say he's not a good HC?

MIke Nolan rebuilt the roster to a very talented roster as well. It didnt translate to wins. He sucked as a head coach.

Woth Shanahan, too many times the team has come out not ready and not prepared to start games. His game management leaves a lot to be desired. And the superbowl loss was on solely on him.

The one thing I will give him is that the team plays hard for him and trust him. I just want to see winning seasons consistently. Even lynch made a comment in the off-season regarding wins.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
If 2019 is the outlier, then the problem is Shanahan. I know his s**t don't stink on the zone, but I've yet to see him as a good head coach as opposed to a good play designer.

He built this roster from scratch, installed a system that is proven to work, and the players like him. What exactly makes you say he's not a good HC?

Let's not forget we reached the super bowl within 3 short years too, but yeah, he's supposedly not a good head coach according to some.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

1. Relatively easy schedule, especially at the start. This one may also be true this year.

2. We mostly avoided long term injuries. Yes, we had our fair share, but most of the team was back on the field by the time the playoffs rolled around. Yes, we did lose Richburg and an important rotational piece in DJ Jones, but no team remains 100% healthy. Jimmy also stayed healthy, something he has not done in the other three seasons where he started the season as the #1 QB in his career.

It's unknown how things will play out this year on the injury front. We're relatively healthy right now, but it's only August.

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

4. We benefited heavily from a relatively weak NFC. The Packers were not as good as their record and Rodgers was not comfortable running Lafleur's offense at the time. Last year he was a lot better and there's no reason to think the Packers won't be better this year than they were in 2019. The Saints were the only other team in the NFC viewed as a realistic contender that year and they were pretty flawed. The Rams had a down year with a lot of injuries along the offensive line, but have since upgraded at QB and are likely going to be much better this year. There's also the Bucs with Tom Brady who arguably have the best roster in the NFC and undeniably a better QB than us.

5. The weak NFC lead to us having incredibly favorable playoff matchups. We faced teams with mostly immobile QBs that had defenses that could not stop the run. We only had to pass the ball about 10 times total in 6 quarters, which is good because we struggled when we did pass. That's extremely unlikely to happen again.

In general, making a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck, especially when you don't have a premier QB. We don't have a premier QB. Most would say we don't even have a top 15 QB. It's very hard to win a Super Bowl like that. Every team that is consistently contending every year has done so due to consistent high-level QB play.

All of that said, realistically the odds of us winning or even making the Super Bowl this year are low and don't differ much with either Trey or Jimmy as the QB. I'd rather not postpone the development of our franchise QB in favor of a very slight increase in our low odds of a championship. It's also not certain that Trey with a full season of starts under his belt won't be significantly better than Jimmy by the time the postseason arrives.

I agree with this too. We had a great string of lucky bounces that culminated in a very good shot at a championship in 2019/20. We have similar ingredients for another run this year, but it's unlikely that our team will get those lucky bounces as many times.

I'm on the fence about Jimmy being on the team vs being cut/traded, but I haven't wavered that our best course of action is to start Lance immediately. Take some lumps, have some rookie mistakes but also demonstrate the big plays he can do even now. And every game under his belt will help improve him, and the team.

Ultimately I want to win the SB every year. It's a possibility this year, we're a top 10 team with either QB. I think going into the playoffs with Lance as our QB is better than Jimmy and the more experience Lance has going into the playoffs, the better.

I'm with you on this. Treys current issues can be improved immensely with actual game experience . Trey needs to learn he doesn't need to rifle in every pass, he needs to get better at feeling out pressure, and he needs to learn when to take what the defense is giving him.

This isn't a situation where Trey is the understudy to some hall of fame QB. Jimmy is an average to slightly above average QB. He's not some game changer. In fact, he can be a detriment at times with his untimely interceptions that he clearly hasn't improved on.

Roll with Trey and keep Jimmy if Trey happens to go down. Take the early lumps while our schedule is relatively easy in the beginning and hope that Trey improves with each game.

Does it need to be a HOF QB to sit behind? Both Brady and Mahomes speak glowingly about how much they appreciate being able to sit behind Bledsoe and Smith for the season.

Trey is 21 yo and played ONE full season of college football at NDSU. Letting him absorb everything about the nfl for a full season will set him up for success and reduce the chances of busting more then throwing him out there immediately to "take his lumps". He will have the chance to see Jimmy take those lumps and see how he responds to them. If anybody can bounce back from lumps it's him. Much more to lose by being hasty then to gain.

The team has a massive investment in him and I'm grateful they are resisting the nature of wanting immediate satisfaction like so many people do. Three years worth of first round picks to let the investment compound. It's a slow burn fellas 💎🙌

Originally posted by frenchmov:
The only way we win a sb with Jimmy is if we have a top defense and top running game. And at that point I'm not convinced Trey couldn't do the same. Jimmy did dick in the playoffs and we literally had to hide him. If you have to hide your starting QB in the playoffs that's pretty bad.

Thankfully we had the 1 seed and got 2 incredible performances on the ground but when we needed Jimmy the most (ONE drive in the 4th, just one in the sb) he completely disappeared. Can't depend on him from what I've seen.

Hopefully Trey can make enough progress soon that he can take over

The only way we win a superbowl with anyone at qb is if we have a top defense and running game, lol. Its hilarious how some folks blame Jimmy for the superbowl, all the while completely ignoring that the defense couldn't hold a lead. I guess the concept that there's more to team football is more than some get. I do hope Trey can get it together quick too though, he seems pretty talented, just needs to learn how to quarterback in the pros.

the mental gymnastics by some in this thread

Originally posted by boast:
the mental gymnastics by some in this thread

Sayin

Originally posted by boast:
the mental gymnastics by some in this thread

The poor execution of some of the gymnasts is quite entertaining though. I keep expecting ring to break out "It worked in madden".

Originally posted by boast:
the mental gymnastics by some in this thread

I'm assuming you're taking about me here…

Originally posted by 49ers81:
And how many systems are there like that in the league? There is a difference between having a QB who is able to extend plays and create when a play breaks down and having a "system" that requires a QB to "carry the load and make big plays". if that's the case your system probably isn't very good or your players. One of the knocks on Rodgers floating around last year was that his coaches felt he was leaving too many plays on the field because he was relying too much on his ability to make something "bigger" happen. Yeah, Jimmy throws some bonehead picks from time to time but how many games has that actually cost them?

He had the strip sack for a TD against Seattle in their first 2019 match-up but he still brought the team back and put them in a position to win the game, and they would have won if their fill in kicker hadn't shanked a last second field goal from pretty much the same distance he had hit on earlier. Jimmy's deep ball isn't great but he is pretty accurate in the mid ranges, has a really quick release and very quick feet moving away from the line. He has proven that he is good enough to take the team to the Super Bowl, which I think is what everyone in the organization wants this year.

I think Lance has has some legitimate upside. Based on a pretty small sample size he seems like he throws a better deep ball than Jimmy and is almost certainly a more fluid athlete. What he lacks right now is experience. As I said in another post, right now he probably doesn't even know what he doesn't know about playing QB at an NFL level. By all accounts he is a smart guy and willing to learn so his time will probably come, maybe just not this year. I don't think the organization would see a lot of upside in giving Lance extensive on the job training if it meant they might not make the playoffs, which is clearly their goal.

Though you wouldn't know it from what is going on in the country these days knowledge and experience are valuable assets to have. More important in most ways than pure physical ability. Right now Jimmy has that in spades over Lance which is what gives him the edge at the moment and is why he will probably be the starter this year. After that who knows.

Good post, 81.

Originally posted by Tman:
Does it need to be a HOF QB to sit behind? Both Brady and Mahomes speak glowingly about how much they appreciate being able to sit behind Bledsoe and Smith for the season.

Trey is 21 yo and played ONE full season of college football at NDSU. Letting him absorb everything about the nfl for a full season will set him up for success and reduce the chances of busting more then throwing him out there immediately to "take his lumps". He will have the chance to see Jimmy take those lumps and see how he responds to them. If anybody can bounce back from lumps it's him. Much more to lose by being hasty then to gain.

The team has a massive investment in him and I'm grateful they are resisting the nature of wanting immediate satisfaction like so many people do. Three years worth of first round picks to let the investment compound. It's a slow burn fellas 💎🙌

Couldn't agree more with this.

Also, couldn't be happier with this QB group going into the season. This team is in such better shape here than the previous years and I'll put this group up against any in the NFL.

Looking forward to seeing it play out this year vs. any team.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

1. Relatively easy schedule, especially at the start. This one may also be true this year.

2. We mostly avoided long term injuries. Yes, we had our fair share, but most of the team was back on the field by the time the playoffs rolled around. Yes, we did lose Richburg and an important rotational piece in DJ Jones, but no team remains 100% healthy. Jimmy also stayed healthy, something he has not done in the other three seasons where he started the season as the #1 QB in his career.

It's unknown how things will play out this year on the injury front. We're relatively healthy right now, but it's only August.

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

4. We benefited heavily from a relatively weak NFC. The Packers were not as good as their record and Rodgers was not comfortable running Lafleur's offense at the time. Last year he was a lot better and there's no reason to think the Packers won't be better this year than they were in 2019. The Saints were the only other team in the NFC viewed as a realistic contender that year and they were pretty flawed. The Rams had a down year with a lot of injuries along the offensive line, but have since upgraded at QB and are likely going to be much better this year. There's also the Bucs with Tom Brady who arguably have the best roster in the NFC and undeniably a better QB than us.

5. The weak NFC lead to us having incredibly favorable playoff matchups. We faced teams with mostly immobile QBs that had defenses that could not stop the run. We only had to pass the ball about 10 times total in 6 quarters, which is good because we struggled when we did pass. That's extremely unlikely to happen again.

In general, making a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck, especially when you don't have a premier QB. We don't have a premier QB. Most would say we don't even have a top 15 QB. It's very hard to win a Super Bowl like that. Every team that is consistently contending every year has done so due to consistent high-level QB play.

All of that said, realistically the odds of us winning or even making the Super Bowl this year are low and don't differ much with either Trey or Jimmy as the QB. I'd rather not postpone the development of our franchise QB in favor of a very slight increase in our low odds of a championship. It's also not certain that Trey with a full season of starts under his belt won't be significantly better than Jimmy by the time the postseason arrives.

I agree with this too. We had a great string of lucky bounces that culminated in a very good shot at a championship in 2019/20. We have similar ingredients for another run this year, but it's unlikely that our team will get those lucky bounces as many times.

I'm on the fence about Jimmy being on the team vs being cut/traded, but I haven't wavered that our best course of action is to start Lance immediately. Take some lumps, have some rookie mistakes but also demonstrate the big plays he can do even now. And every game under his belt will help improve him, and the team.

Ultimately I want to win the SB every year. It's a possibility this year, we're a top 10 team with either QB. I think going into the playoffs with Lance as our QB is better than Jimmy and the more experience Lance has going into the playoffs, the better.

I'm with you on this. Treys current issues can be improved immensely with actual game experience . Trey needs to learn he doesn't need to rifle in every pass, he needs to get better at feeling out pressure, and he needs to learn when to take what the defense is giving him.

This isn't a situation where Trey is the understudy to some hall of fame QB. Jimmy is an average to slightly above average QB. He's not some game changer. In fact, he can be a detriment at times with his untimely interceptions that he clearly hasn't improved on.

Roll with Trey and keep Jimmy if Trey happens to go down. Take the early lumps while our schedule is relatively easy in the beginning and hope that Trey improves with each game.

Does it need to be a HOF QB to sit behind? Both Brady and Mahomes speak glowingly about how much they appreciate being able to sit behind Bledsoe and Smith for the season.

Trey is 21 yo and played ONE full season of college football at NDSU. Letting him absorb everything about the nfl for a full season will set him up for success and reduce the chances of busting more then throwing him out there immediately to "take his lumps". He will have the chance to see Jimmy take those lumps and see how he responds to them. If anybody can bounce back from lumps it's him. Much more to lose by being hasty then to gain.

The team has a massive investment in him and I'm grateful they are resisting the nature of wanting immediate satisfaction like so many people do. Three years worth of first round picks to let the investment compound. It's a slow burn fellas 💎🙌

No that's not my point. My point is, people are saying he should sit behind Jimmy
A: so he can learn
B: because Jimmy gives us the best chance to win.

my contention is with B. Jimmy is not miles ahead of Trey and still continues to make the same mistakes he always has.

The things Trey needs to work on can be improved by actually playing. That's my point.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
No that's not my point. My point is, people are saying he should sit behind Jimmy
A: so he can learn
B: because Jimmy gives us the best chance to win.

my contention is with B. Jimmy is not miles ahead of Trey and still continues to make the same mistakes he always has.

The things Trey needs to work on can be improved by actually playing. That's my point.

Jimmy is miles ahead in this O and reading defenses.

try to be serious.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

Well duh, we only lost 3 games. So, of course we didn't lose as many close games lol

Lost by inches to the Falcons.

Lost to the Seahawks in OT by a missed easy FG

Lost to the Ravens in a game that came down to the wire.

You come across extremely biased when you type stuff like this. Or maybe, you don't remember 2019 that well.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by boast:
the mental gymnastics by some in this thread

Sayin

Yep lol