The 2021 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
No that's not my point. My point is, people are saying he should sit behind Jimmy
A: so he can learn
B: because Jimmy gives us the best chance to win.

my contention is with B. Jimmy is not miles ahead of Trey and still continues to make the same mistakes he always has.

The things Trey needs to work on can be improved by actually playing. That's my point.

Jimmy is miles ahead in this O and reading defenses.

try to be serious.

Yeah, Trey isn't at the point where real NFL game experience is going to make the difference. It would likely hinder some development cause he is still working on mechanics and with our O line issues we don't want the future franchise turn into a run first or seeing ghosts type.

At the very least let JG start the season and give Lance some experience on the week to week prep in the QB room. It's not like training camp or preseason is everything. There's still a crap ton more that goes on in the film room that matters more than on a practice field. For example with Treys running ability and the plays Shanny is drawing up… the entire O line has to learn how to block for that… not something people think about. Instead they'd rather question wtf he doesn't get to throw passes in first team reps.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

Well duh, we only lost 3 games. So, of course we didn't lose as many close games lol

Lost by inches to the Falcons.

Lost to the Seahawks in OT by a missed easy FG

Lost to the Ravens in a game that came down to the wire.

You come across extremely biased when you type stuff like this. Or maybe, you don't remember 2019 that well.

What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

49ers were 7-3 (win probability <60% for either team in final 5 minutes) in close games in 2019.

A team that lost a lot of close games this year isn't likely to be so cursed next year, and a team that won a lot of close games this season won't be able to count on being so lucky in 2020.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

WTF are you arguing now?? lol

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

Once our defense started having injuries games got close. You're terrible with context, and your insane hate for the starting qb is clearly having a detrimental effect on your thinking.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I don't believe we have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl with Jimmy this season.

So where do you think we sit in terms of odds to win the SB? I mean most Vegas sites have us somewhere around 7th/8th best odds to win it all fwiw.

Would you say that is a good guess, or are we more like 12th or 16th or 25th?

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

Once our defense started having injuries games got close. You're terrible with context, and your insane hate for the starting qb is clearly having a detrimental effect on your thinking.

What do defensive injuries have to do with it? We still won more close games than any other team and more than is statistically probable.

"insane hate" is a funny way to phrase it considering that my opinion on our QB is in alignment with the majority outside of a handful of 49ers fans. Find me a single analyst that has Jimmy rated as a top 15 QB going into this season.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Yeah, Trey isn't at the point where real NFL game experience is going to make the difference. It would likely hinder some development cause he is still working on mechanics and with our O line issues we don't want the future franchise turn into a run first or seeing ghosts type.

At the very least let JG start the season and give Lance some experience on the week to week prep in the QB room. It's not like training camp or preseason is everything. There's still a crap ton more that goes on in the film room that matters more than on a practice field. For example with Treys running ability and the plays Shanny is drawing up… the entire O line has to learn how to block for that… not something people think about. Instead they'd rather question wtf he doesn't get to throw passes in first team reps.

I worry that if you throw Lance out there and let him get beat like Justin Fields got beat today, its not going to teach him anything, just reinforce bad habits and make him impatient and squeamish in the pocket. You're talking about a QB who had one season of play and at a lower level of competition in an offense that rarely required him to throw the ball more than 15 times a game.

I think too many people in their excitement to see the shiny new toy out on the field have lost sight of just how enormous his learning curve was going to be. A lot of others got lost in the hype of practice sessions where he showed a lot of promise but that are still a far cry from actual NFL action when the bullets are flying and defenders are trying to come and rip your head off.

I just don't see a need to rush anything. You sit him for a season or even most of the season and that is more time that he has to see the offense in action, to study film and continue working on his mechanics and build up his confidence.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

49ers were 7-3 (win probability <60% for either team in final 5 minutes) in close games in 2019.

A team that lost a lot of close games this year isn't likely to be so cursed next year, and a team that won a lot of close games this season won't be able to count on being so lucky in 2020.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

"The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on."

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Yeah, Trey isn't at the point where real NFL game experience is going to make the difference. It would likely hinder some development cause he is still working on mechanics and with our O line issues we don't want the future franchise turn into a run first or seeing ghosts type.

At the very least let JG start the season and give Lance some experience on the week to week prep in the QB room. It's not like training camp or preseason is everything. There's still a crap ton more that goes on in the film room that matters more than on a practice field. For example with Treys running ability and the plays Shanny is drawing up… the entire O line has to learn how to block for that… not something people think about. Instead they'd rather question wtf he doesn't get to throw passes in first team reps.

I worry that if you throw Lance out there and let him get beat like Justin Fields got beat today, its not going to teach him anything, just reinforce bad habits and make him impatient and squeamish in the pocket. You're talking about a QB who had one season of play and at a lower level of competition in an offense that rarely required him to throw the ball more than 15 times a game.

I think too many people in their excitement to see the shiny new toy out on the field have lost sight of just how enormous his learning curve was going to be. A lot of others got lost in the hype of practice sessions where he showed a lot of promise but that are still a far cry from actual NFL action when the bullets are flying and defenders are trying to come and rip your head off.

This

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I worry that if you throw Lance out there and let him get beat like Justin Fields got beat today, its not going to teach him anything, just reinforce bad habits and make him impatient and squeamish in the pocket. You're talking about a QB who had one season of play and at a lower level of competition in an offense that rarely required him to throw the ball more than 15 times a game.

I think too many people in their excitement to see the shiny new toy out on the field have lost sight of just how enormous his learning curve was going to be. A lot of others got lost in the hype of practice sessions where he showed a lot of promise but that are still a far cry from actual NFL action when the bullets are flying and defenders are trying to come and rip your head off.

I just don't see a need to rush anything. You sit him for a season or even most of the season and that is more time that he has to see the offense in action, to study film and continue working on his mechanics and build up his confidence.

I agree with this

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Yeah, Trey isn't at the point where real NFL game experience is going to make the difference. It would likely hinder some development cause he is still working on mechanics and with our O line issues we don't want the future franchise turn into a run first or seeing ghosts type.

At the very least let JG start the season and give Lance some experience on the week to week prep in the QB room. It's not like training camp or preseason is everything. There's still a crap ton more that goes on in the film room that matters more than on a practice field. For example with Treys running ability and the plays Shanny is drawing up… the entire O line has to learn how to block for that… not something people think about. Instead they'd rather question wtf he doesn't get to throw passes in first team reps.

I worry that if you throw Lance out there and let him get beat like Justin Fields got beat today, its not going to teach him anything, just reinforce bad habits and make him impatient and squeamish in the pocket. You're talking about a QB who had one season of play and at a lower level of competition in an offense that rarely required him to throw the ball more than 15 times a game.

I think too many people in their excitement to see the shiny new toy out on the field have lost sight of just how enormous his learning curve was going to be. A lot of others got lost in the hype of practice sessions where he showed a lot of promise but that are still a far cry from actual NFL action when the bullets are flying and defenders are trying to come and rip your head off.

I just don't see a need to rush anything. You sit him for a season or even most of the season and that is more time that he has to see the offense in action, to study film and continue working on his mechanics and build up his confidence.

yup, even pat mahomes who threw a ton in college wasnt deemed ready to start ahead of alex.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Yeah, Trey isn't at the point where real NFL game experience is going to make the difference. It would likely hinder some development cause he is still working on mechanics and with our O line issues we don't want the future franchise turn into a run first or seeing ghosts type.

At the very least let JG start the season and give Lance some experience on the week to week prep in the QB room. It's not like training camp or preseason is everything. There's still a crap ton more that goes on in the film room that matters more than on a practice field. For example with Treys running ability and the plays Shanny is drawing up… the entire O line has to learn how to block for that… not something people think about. Instead they'd rather question wtf he doesn't get to throw passes in first team reps.

I worry that if you throw Lance out there and let him get beat like Justin Fields got beat today, its not going to teach him anything, just reinforce bad habits and make him impatient and squeamish in the pocket. You're talking about a QB who had one season of play and at a lower level of competition in an offense that rarely required him to throw the ball more than 15 times a game.

I think too many people in their excitement to see the shiny new toy out on the field have lost sight of just how enormous his learning curve was going to be. A lot of others got lost in the hype of practice sessions where he showed a lot of promise but that are still a far cry from actual NFL action when the bullets are flying and defenders are trying to come and rip your head off.

This

So playing no real football for 3 yrs is gonna help him play football?

I get what PHX is saying and it's totally understandable and if it goes down like that totally fine, not our say. I just don't see Lance as a guy that if he's has some issues early in his career he's gonna be destroyed as a player and never develop.

IMO it's a hard thing because we all want him to develop and his issue is reps (lack there of). You get better overall by playing and being put in a position to run the offense and make those decision in game play.

if he's completely clueless on the playbook and his mechanics are poop, sure let him sit as long as you can…if you want him to really learn the nuances of playing QB….he has to actually play QB end of the day.

we will see, I'm still saying he's the starter right around the bye week.