The 2021 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
yup, even pat mahomes who threw a ton in college wasnt deemed ready to start ahead of alex.

Justin Herbert wasn't deemed ready to start ahead of Taylor, yet got forced into play week 2.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Whoa! The 49ers should give Darrion Daniels a lifetime contract https://t.co/1zOds1Bef1

— Niners Nation (@NinersNation) August 21, 2021

He good.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

WTF are you arguing now?? lol

This

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

Well duh, we only lost 3 games. So, of course we didn't lose as many close games lol

Lost by inches to the Falcons.

Lost to the Seahawks in OT by a missed easy FG

Lost to the Ravens in a game that came down to the wire.

You come across extremely biased when you type stuff like this. Or maybe, you don't remember 2019 that well.

It's his wording. Yeah no s**t. We only lost 3 games.

anyways, moving on.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So playing no real football for 3 yrs is gonna help him play football?

I get what PHX is saying and it's totally understandable and if it goes down like that totally fine, not our say. I just don't see Lance as a guy that if he's has some issues early in his career he's gonna be destroyed as a player and never develop.

IMO it's a hard thing because we all want him to develop and his issue is reps (lack there of). You get better overall by playing and being put in a position to run the offense and make those decision in game play.

if he's completely clueless on the playbook and his mechanics are poop, sure let him sit as long as you can…if you want him to really learn the nuances of playing QB….he has to actually play QB end of the day.

we will see, I'm still saying he's the starter right around the bye week.

And remember fins benched Fitz for tua midseason even though they were doing well

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
yup, even pat mahomes who threw a ton in college wasnt deemed ready to start ahead of alex.

Justin Herbert wasn't deemed ready to start ahead of Taylor, yet got forced into play week 2.

he couldnt beat out tyrod taylor in camp

chargers weren't going anywhere, KC had SB aspirations as do the Niners

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What does that matter? Percentage of wins in one score games is a volatile stat year to year. We were lucky in to win more of those games than we lost in 2019, but it's not something that can be counted on happening again.

What does it matter? lol you're the one using close games to push a narrative. Guess what? That's the life in the NFL. When two good teams meet it's usually going to come down to a play or two.

The Seahawks, for example, have made a living based on close games, decided by a play or two, for a decade. Try telling them it's not something that can be counted on.

Except the 49ers had more of those games than any other team in 2019 and won more of them than any other team as well. That's not stable. Here is an article that explains it pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/not-all-close-nfl-wins-were-actually-close/amp/

WTF are you arguing now?? lol

This

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

Well duh, we only lost 3 games. So, of course we didn't lose as many close games lol

Lost by inches to the Falcons.

Lost to the Seahawks in OT by a missed easy FG

Lost to the Ravens in a game that came down to the wire.

You come across extremely biased when you type stuff like this. Or maybe, you don't remember 2019 that well.

It's his wording. Yeah no s**t. We only lost 3 games.

lol, dude, no s**t. Think about what you're saying for a second. If we only had 3 losses, but had 10 games that were considered "coin-flips" by win probability, then isn't it accurate to say we won a lot of close games?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
Yeah, Trey isn't at the point where real NFL game experience is going to make the difference. It would likely hinder some development cause he is still working on mechanics and with our O line issues we don't want the future franchise turn into a run first or seeing ghosts type.

At the very least let JG start the season and give Lance some experience on the week to week prep in the QB room. It's not like training camp or preseason is everything. There's still a crap ton more that goes on in the film room that matters more than on a practice field. For example with Treys running ability and the plays Shanny is drawing up… the entire O line has to learn how to block for that… not something people think about. Instead they'd rather question wtf he doesn't get to throw passes in first team reps.

I worry that if you throw Lance out there and let him get beat like Justin Fields got beat today, its not going to teach him anything, just reinforce bad habits and make him impatient and squeamish in the pocket. You're talking about a QB who had one season of play and at a lower level of competition in an offense that rarely required him to throw the ball more than 15 times a game.

I think too many people in their excitement to see the shiny new toy out on the field have lost sight of just how enormous his learning curve was going to be. A lot of others got lost in the hype of practice sessions where he showed a lot of promise but that are still a far cry from actual NFL action when the bullets are flying and defenders are trying to come and rip your head off.

This

So playing no real football for 3 yrs is gonna help him play football?

I get what PHX is saying and it's totally understandable and if it goes down like that totally fine, not our say. I just don't see Lance as a guy that if he's has some issues early in his career he's gonna be destroyed as a player and never develop.

IMO it's a hard thing because we all want him to develop and his issue is reps (lack there of). You get better overall by playing and being put in a position to run the offense and make those decision in game play.

if he's completely clueless on the playbook and his mechanics are poop, sure let him sit as long as you can…if you want him to really learn the nuances of playing QB….he has to actually play QB end of the day.

we will see, I'm still saying he's the starter right around the bye week.

I see what you are saying NY but I guess I'm more in the court of letting him see how a pro does it week in and week out. Plus I want to see what the pass protection looks like. I don't want to see the confidence knocked out of this kid. In my not so humble opinion I would rather have him wait and get more hungry to play while at the same time see how it's done by Jimmy. If he has that competitive spirit he will want to be better and that will only help him.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

1. Relatively easy schedule, especially at the start. This one may also be true this year.

2. We mostly avoided long term injuries. Yes, we had our fair share, but most of the team was back on the field by the time the playoffs rolled around. Yes, we did lose Richburg and an important rotational piece in DJ Jones, but no team remains 100% healthy. Jimmy also stayed healthy, something he has not done in the other three seasons where he started the season as the #1 QB in his career.

It's unknown how things will play out this year on the injury front. We're relatively healthy right now, but it's only August.

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

4. We benefited heavily from a relatively weak NFC. The Packers were not as good as their record and Rodgers was not comfortable running Lafleur's offense at the time. Last year he was a lot better and there's no reason to think the Packers won't be better this year than they were in 2019. The Saints were the only other team in the NFC viewed as a realistic contender that year and they were pretty flawed. The Rams had a down year with a lot of injuries along the offensive line, but have since upgraded at QB and are likely going to be much better this year. There's also the Bucs with Tom Brady who arguably have the best roster in the NFC and undeniably a better QB than us.

5. The weak NFC lead to us having incredibly favorable playoff matchups. We faced teams with mostly immobile QBs that had defenses that could not stop the run. We only had to pass the ball about 10 times total in 6 quarters, which is good because we struggled when we did pass. That's extremely unlikely to happen again.

In general, making a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck, especially when you don't have a premier QB. We don't have a premier QB. Most would say we don't even have a top 15 QB. It's very hard to win a Super Bowl like that. Every team that is consistently contending every year has done so due to consistent high-level QB play.

All of that said, realistically the odds of us winning or even making the Super Bowl this year are low and don't differ much with either Trey or Jimmy as the QB. I'd rather not postpone the development of our franchise QB in favor of a very slight increase in our low odds of a championship. It's also not certain that Trey with a full season of starts under his belt won't be significantly better than Jimmy by the time the postseason arrives.

1. 11th
2. 27th
3. True. Top 5 defense and running game and #1 on 3rd down % is a winning formula + special teams (FG's)
4. We destroyed the playoffs with record breaking performances and were minutes away from wrapping up #6 against the STRONG AFC's best team with tilted scales. Weak argument.
5. 5 is the same as 4. LOL. All #1 seeds are supposed to have the easiest path. That's the point of importance of winning it...against Seattle in Seattle.

The rest is just drivel and baseless.

But if you just prefer Trey to start, that's cool. You should just say that.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
yup, even pat mahomes who threw a ton in college wasnt deemed ready to start ahead of alex.

Justin Herbert wasn't deemed ready to start ahead of Taylor, yet got forced into play week 2.

he couldnt beat out tyrod taylor in camp

chargers weren't going anywhere, KC had SB aspirations as do the Niners

Oh no, he couldn't beat out Tyrod Taylor in an abbreviated training camp with no OTAs… I guess he's a bust then? I guess his rookie season was a complete flop?

As for KC, if they had Super Bowl aspirations in 2017… how'd that work out for them? Did they win the Super Bowl or did their limited QB fall flat in the playoffs?

I expect Jimmy to get 2 or 3 series to start game. Then we expect Lance to play a majority of the rest of the game. According to Shanahan, starters will play the 1st quarter, so Lance should also get 2 or 3 series with the 1s.

How the two guys perform in their 2 or 3 series will decide who's going into week 1 the starter. If Lance dramatically outplays Jimmy, it will unleash a media firestorm.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

1. Relatively easy schedule, especially at the start. This one may also be true this year.

2. We mostly avoided long term injuries. Yes, we had our fair share, but most of the team was back on the field by the time the playoffs rolled around. Yes, we did lose Richburg and an important rotational piece in DJ Jones, but no team remains 100% healthy. Jimmy also stayed healthy, something he has not done in the other three seasons where he started the season as the #1 QB in his career.

It's unknown how things will play out this year on the injury front. We're relatively healthy right now, but it's only August.

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

4. We benefited heavily from a relatively weak NFC. The Packers were not as good as their record and Rodgers was not comfortable running Lafleur's offense at the time. Last year he was a lot better and there's no reason to think the Packers won't be better this year than they were in 2019. The Saints were the only other team in the NFC viewed as a realistic contender that year and they were pretty flawed. The Rams had a down year with a lot of injuries along the offensive line, but have since upgraded at QB and are likely going to be much better this year. There's also the Bucs with Tom Brady who arguably have the best roster in the NFC and undeniably a better QB than us.

5. The weak NFC lead to us having incredibly favorable playoff matchups. We faced teams with mostly immobile QBs that had defenses that could not stop the run. We only had to pass the ball about 10 times total in 6 quarters, which is good because we struggled when we did pass. That's extremely unlikely to happen again.

In general, making a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck, especially when you don't have a premier QB. We don't have a premier QB. Most would say we don't even have a top 15 QB. It's very hard to win a Super Bowl like that. Every team that is consistently contending every year has done so due to consistent high-level QB play.

All of that said, realistically the odds of us winning or even making the Super Bowl this year are low and don't differ much with either Trey or Jimmy as the QB. I'd rather not postpone the development of our franchise QB in favor of a very slight increase in our low odds of a championship. It's also not certain that Trey with a full season of starts under his belt won't be significantly better than Jimmy by the time the postseason arrives.

1. 11th
2. 27th
3. True. Top 5 defense and running game and #1 on 3rd down % is a winning formula + special teams (FG's)
4. We destroyed the playoffs with record breaking performances and were minutes away from wrapping up #6 against the STRONG AFC's best team with tilted scales. Weak argument.
5. 5 is the same as 4. LOL. All #1 seeds are supposed to have the easiest path. That's the point of importance of winning it...against Seattle in Seattle.

The rest is just drivel and baseless.

But if you just prefer Trey to start, that's cool. You should just say that.

1. 11th in what?
2. 27th in what? Starters on IR? Games lost to injury? Playoff starter games lost to injury?
3. That doesn't change the fact that we had more close wins than any other team in the league by a margin of 3 games and that it is a highly volatile stat.
4. We lost to KC by two scores. We dominated two weak opponents in the playoffs. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.
5. We were the #1 seed by an inch. Also, show me another #1 seed that only threw the ball <30 times in 2 games.

I've already said I don't see the point in waiting on starting Trey.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
yup, even pat mahomes who threw a ton in college wasnt deemed ready to start ahead of alex.

Justin Herbert wasn't deemed ready to start ahead of Taylor, yet got forced into play week 2.

he couldnt beat out tyrod taylor in camp

chargers weren't going anywhere, KC had SB aspirations as do the Niners

Oh no, he couldn't beat out Tyrod Taylor in an abbreviated training camp with no OTAs… I guess he's a bust then? I guess his rookie season was a complete flop?

As for KC, if they had Super Bowl aspirations in 2017… how'd that work out for them? Did they win the Super Bowl or did their limited QB fall flat in the playoffs?

Yeah, I can see that to be true, Going with Smith over the young rookie Mahones may have cost the chiefs a shot at the super bowl. Playing It Safe and consevative Is Not a recipe for success In this league. I believe that's why Harbaugh decided to keep Smith on the bench In 2012 too... NFL Is all about playmakers making plays, especially with how the rules are today.

do they have practice today?

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

1. Relatively easy schedule, especially at the start. This one may also be true this year.

2. We mostly avoided long term injuries. Yes, we had our fair share, but most of the team was back on the field by the time the playoffs rolled around. Yes, we did lose Richburg and an important rotational piece in DJ Jones, but no team remains 100% healthy. Jimmy also stayed healthy, something he has not done in the other three seasons where he started the season as the #1 QB in his career.

It's unknown how things will play out this year on the injury front. We're relatively healthy right now, but it's only August.

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

4. We benefited heavily from a relatively weak NFC. The Packers were not as good as their record and Rodgers was not comfortable running Lafleur's offense at the time. Last year he was a lot better and there's no reason to think the Packers won't be better this year than they were in 2019. The Saints were the only other team in the NFC viewed as a realistic contender that year and they were pretty flawed. The Rams had a down year with a lot of injuries along the offensive line, but have since upgraded at QB and are likely going to be much better this year. There's also the Bucs with Tom Brady who arguably have the best roster in the NFC and undeniably a better QB than us.

5. The weak NFC lead to us having incredibly favorable playoff matchups. We faced teams with mostly immobile QBs that had defenses that could not stop the run. We only had to pass the ball about 10 times total in 6 quarters, which is good because we struggled when we did pass. That's extremely unlikely to happen again.

In general, making a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck, especially when you don't have a premier QB. We don't have a premier QB. Most would say we don't even have a top 15 QB. It's very hard to win a Super Bowl like that. Every team that is consistently contending every year has done so due to consistent high-level QB play.

All of that said, realistically the odds of us winning or even making the Super Bowl this year are low and don't differ much with either Trey or Jimmy as the QB. I'd rather not postpone the development of our franchise QB in favor of a very slight increase in our low odds of a championship. It's also not certain that Trey with a full season of starts under his belt won't be significantly better than Jimmy by the time the postseason arrives.

1. 11th
2. 27th
3. True. Top 5 defense and running game and #1 on 3rd down % is a winning formula + special teams (FG's)
4. We destroyed the playoffs with record breaking performances and were minutes away from wrapping up #6 against the STRONG AFC's best team with tilted scales. Weak argument.
5. 5 is the same as 4. LOL. All #1 seeds are supposed to have the easiest path. That's the point of importance of winning it...against Seattle in Seattle.

The rest is just drivel and baseless.

But if you just prefer Trey to start, that's cool. You should just say that.

1. 11th in what?
2. 27th in what? Starters on IR? Games lost to injury? Playoff starter games lost to injury?
3. That doesn't change the fact that we had more close wins than any other team in the league by a margin of 3 games and that it is a highly volatile stat.
4. We lost to KC by two scores. We dominated two weak opponents in the playoffs. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.
5. We were the #1 seed by an inch. Also, show me another #1 seed that only threw the ball <30 times in 2 games.

I've already said I don't see the point in waiting on starting Trey.

1. SOS (correction, 14th)
2. AGL
3. Were you looking for weekly blowouts? 2nd best record in football didn't do it for you?
4. Our defense gave up 21 points in the final 5 minutes. Offense couldn't get a first down.
5. Now you just sound silly.

Originally posted by NCommand:
1. SOS (correction, 14th)
2. AGL
3. Were you looking for weekly blowouts? 2nd best record in football didn't do it for you?
4. Our defense gave up 21 points in the final 5 minutes. Offense couldn't get a first down.
5. Now you just sound silly.

Just now?