The 2021 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by Andra:
And what about Steve young, Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady It works both ways no one can really say what one is better then the other. You have to trust the coaches evaluation

How is Steve young's experience the same? He was a failed draft pick by TB. He was brought in and sat behind Joe Montana lol. Is Jimmy Joe now? Same with Rogers he sat behind one of the best QBs of all time…also go look at AR's throwing motion at Cal vs now, he had to totally revamp it. Top to bottom.

Brady was a 6th rd draft pick…how is his scenario relevant to this? We gonna throw out every QB who didn't start day 1 and say see there's your proof? Cause if we're gonna do that I can point out a lot more QBs that failed when they didn't play yr 1 all the same.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Shanahan watches these guys in practice every day, has done so for months.

If it really came down to a handful of snaps in a meaningless game, I'd start believing that he may just be an incompetent head coach who is in way over his head. I think he knows definitively who his starter will be at this point. For Lance, its just a matter of getting some extra snaps that he badly needs.

I agree about it not coming down to specific snaps. But looking at this logistically, next week and game are going to be covered by the media. The game is treated as a dress rehearsal and the QB1 needs to be taking the lion's share of first team snaps in preparation for week 1.

So tomorrow's game is really the last time Lance could pull even / overtake Jimmy before the team begins preparations for the beginning of the season.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Ignoring the first part, but answering the last statement. Tomorrow's game, and specifically the work with the 1st team offensive line, will be the determination. If Lance looks great and Jimmy struggles, you can bet there will be an official competition.

I was about to post the same thing Phoenix posted. I think it will come down to behind the scene stuff for Shanny. Is Trey doing the things Shanny is asking of him and excelling to the point he is comfortable bypassing a known commodity in Jimmy for the unknown in Trey?

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Ignoring the first part, but answering the last statement. Tomorrow's game, and specifically the work with the 1st team offensive line, will be the determination. If Lance looks great and Jimmy struggles, you can bet there will be an official competition.

I am just looking for some improvement from his performance against the chiefs.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Ignoring the first part, but answering the last statement. Tomorrow's game, and specifically the work with the 1st team offensive line, will be the determination. If Lance looks great and Jimmy struggles, you can bet there will be an official competition.

I am just looking for some improvement from his performance against the chiefs.

Same here. I know everyone here bashes Jimmy for checking down so much but that is something I would like to see Trey work on. We already know he has a beautiful deep ball. I would like to see him take what the defense gives him. Throw to his hot route on a blitz. You know the little things to quarterbacking than just heaving it up every play because it's more sexy than checking it down 5 yds and letting your playmakers get that YAC.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Andra:
And what about Steve young, Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady It works both ways no one can really say what one is better then the other. You have to trust the coaches evaluation

How is Steve young's experience the same? He was a failed draft pick by TB. He was brought in and sat behind Joe Montana lol. Is Jimmy Joe now? Same with Rogers he sat behind one of the best QBs of all time…also go look at AR's throwing motion at Cal vs now, he had to totally revamp it. Top to bottom.

Brady was a 6th rd draft pick…how is his scenario relevant to this? We gonna throw out every QB who didn't start day 1 and say see there's your proof? Cause if we're gonna do that I can point out a lot more QBs that failed when they didn't play yr 1 all the same.

The point that I was making is that putting the rookie in To get reps is not necessarily the recipe for success, players that don't start right away can still play well. I can't say for sure but my guess is that there are just as many first round rookies that struggle and washout of the league than succeed and do well. what's your guess? That having been said I agree that there is little replacement for live reps but if the kid is raw and not ready he should sit behind Jimmy. You have to trust the coaches evaluation. What do you think, should Shanahan's opinion be trusted on who should start or do you put the rookie in and see what he can do?

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I expect Jimmy to get 2 or 3 series to start game. Then we expect Lance to play a majority of the rest of the game. According to Shanahan, starters will play the 1st quarter, so Lance should also get 2 or 3 series with the 1s.

How the two guys perform in their 2 or 3 series will decide who's going into week 1 the starter. If Lance dramatically outplays Jimmy, it will unleash a media firestorm.

week 1 starting QB was decided long ago.

This. People are literally making up a competition out of thin air but there isn't one. I really dont understand it.

Hoping to post it into existence

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I expect Jimmy to get 2 or 3 series to start game. Then we expect Lance to play a majority of the rest of the game. According to Shanahan, starters will play the 1st quarter, so Lance should also get 2 or 3 series with the 1s.

How the two guys perform in their 2 or 3 series will decide who's going into week 1 the starter. If Lance dramatically outplays Jimmy, it will unleash a media firestorm.

week 1 starting QB was decided long ago.

This. People are literally making up a competition out of thin air but there isn't one. I really dont understand it.

Hoping to post it into existence

😂

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I expect Jimmy to get 2 or 3 series to start game. Then we expect Lance to play a majority of the rest of the game. According to Shanahan, starters will play the 1st quarter, so Lance should also get 2 or 3 series with the 1s.

How the two guys perform in their 2 or 3 series will decide who's going into week 1 the starter. If Lance dramatically outplays Jimmy, it will unleash a media firestorm.

week 1 starting QB was decided long ago.

It's what Shanahan has said. And I believe it to be the case currently, but obviously think it's not decided yet.

He said from the very beginning that Jimmy is the starter and there is no competition. Nothing has changed since then.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by RackofRibs49:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I expect Jimmy to get 2 or 3 series to start game. Then we expect Lance to play a majority of the rest of the game. According to Shanahan, starters will play the 1st quarter, so Lance should also get 2 or 3 series with the 1s.

How the two guys perform in their 2 or 3 series will decide who's going into week 1 the starter. If Lance dramatically outplays Jimmy, it will unleash a media firestorm.

week 1 starting QB was decided long ago.

This. People are literally making up a competition out of thin air but there isn't one. I really dont understand it.

Hoping to post it into existence

Good ol' law of attraction eh

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
i dont think you understand my point

im saying the great pat mahomes couldnt beat out alex his rookie year. its not a knock on trey if he cant as well. his time will come.

so we're really gonna believe taylor truly "won" the competition only to go 16-30 for 200 yards week 1 and it only took Herbert one week to "flip the switch" and go on to break all kinds of rookie QB records?

nah not buying it. Either the coaching staff was stupid or they just didn't want him to start regardless.

Mahomes like every other QB is there own person…I understand what you're saying but it really annoying to read over and over in here "well look at Mahomes" like that's what happens every time a QB sits for a yr or doesn't win the starter spot in camp

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Here's a list of things that fell in our favor in 2019:

1. Relatively easy schedule, especially at the start. This one may also be true this year.

2. We mostly avoided long term injuries. Yes, we had our fair share, but most of the team was back on the field by the time the playoffs rolled around. Yes, we did lose Richburg and an important rotational piece in DJ Jones, but no team remains 100% healthy. Jimmy also stayed healthy, something he has not done in the other three seasons where he started the season as the #1 QB in his career.

It's unknown how things will play out this year on the injury front. We're relatively healthy right now, but it's only August.

3. We won a lot of close games. We were literally an inch away from losing the division to the Seahawks. We also had wins that came down to 1-2 plays against the Cardinals, Saints, Rams, and Steelers. True, we also had some close losses, but not as many.

4. We benefited heavily from a relatively weak NFC. The Packers were not as good as their record and Rodgers was not comfortable running Lafleur's offense at the time. Last year he was a lot better and there's no reason to think the Packers won't be better this year than they were in 2019. The Saints were the only other team in the NFC viewed as a realistic contender that year and they were pretty flawed. The Rams had a down year with a lot of injuries along the offensive line, but have since upgraded at QB and are likely going to be much better this year. There's also the Bucs with Tom Brady who arguably have the best roster in the NFC and undeniably a better QB than us.

5. The weak NFC lead to us having incredibly favorable playoff matchups. We faced teams with mostly immobile QBs that had defenses that could not stop the run. We only had to pass the ball about 10 times total in 6 quarters, which is good because we struggled when we did pass. That's extremely unlikely to happen again.

In general, making a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck, especially when you don't have a premier QB. We don't have a premier QB. Most would say we don't even have a top 15 QB. It's very hard to win a Super Bowl like that. Every team that is consistently contending every year has done so due to consistent high-level QB play.

All of that said, realistically the odds of us winning or even making the Super Bowl this year are low and don't differ much with either Trey or Jimmy as the QB. I'd rather not postpone the development of our franchise QB in favor of a very slight increase in our low odds of a championship. It's also not certain that Trey with a full season of starts under his belt won't be significantly better than Jimmy by the time the postseason arrives.

1. 11th
2. 27th
3. True. Top 5 defense and running game and #1 on 3rd down % is a winning formula + special teams (FG's)
4. We destroyed the playoffs with record breaking performances and were minutes away from wrapping up #6 against the STRONG AFC's best team with tilted scales. Weak argument.
5. 5 is the same as 4. LOL. All #1 seeds are supposed to have the easiest path. That's the point of importance of winning it...against Seattle in Seattle.

The rest is just drivel and baseless.

But if you just prefer Trey to start, that's cool. You should just say that.

1. 11th in what?
2. 27th in what? Starters on IR? Games lost to injury? Playoff starter games lost to injury?
3. That doesn't change the fact that we had more close wins than any other team in the league by a margin of 3 games and that it is a highly volatile stat.
4. We lost to KC by two scores. We dominated two weak opponents in the playoffs. I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.
5. We were the #1 seed by an inch. Also, show me another #1 seed that only threw the ball <30 times in 2 games.

I've already said I don't see the point in waiting on starting Trey.

1. SOS (correction, 14th)
2. AGL
3. Were you looking for weekly blowouts? 2nd best record in football didn't do it for you?
4. Our defense gave up 21 points in the final 5 minutes. Offense couldn't get a first down.
5. Now you just sound silly.

1. Hmm, 14th weakest or strongest schedule? How did that compare to the other teams in the NFC West?
2. Ok, what does that have to do with what I said? We had injuries, but the majority of players returned by the playoffs. That's lucky. Our QB managed to stay healthy for an extended period of time for the only time in his career. That's lucky.
3. We had more close games than any other team. That's a far cry from expecting a blowout every week.
4. Ah giving up 21 points in 7 minutes and failing to do anything on offense sounds like the hallmark of a dominant team. I'm still not sure if you're disputing that we benefited from a weak NFC in 2019 or not.
5. I'm guessing you tried to find another team that was able to hide their deficiency at QB as much as we did in the NFC playoffs and couldn't.

We had the 11th toughest schedule according to CBS. AZ was 12th, Seahawks 25th and Rams 27th.

We may have gotten most of our injured players back for the playoffs but we had stretches with key players missing and still managed to find ways to win games to allow us to stay in the hunt for the division. We also had to make a trade to improve our talent at wide receiver, so we played the first 6 games with a little less talent on offense.

More close games, but good teams win close games. Going into 2019, both Lynch and Kyle mentioned how we needed to find ways to close out those close games and we did. It's what good teams do and we did it.

Originally posted by Tman:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I expect Jimmy to get 2 or 3 series to start game. Then we expect Lance to play a majority of the rest of the game. According to Shanahan, starters will play the 1st quarter, so Lance should also get 2 or 3 series with the 1s.

How the two guys perform in their 2 or 3 series will decide who's going into week 1 the starter. If Lance dramatically outplays Jimmy, it will unleash a media firestorm.

week 1 starting QB was decided long ago.

It's what Shanahan has said. And I believe it to be the case currently, but obviously think it's not decided yet.

He said from the very beginning that Jimmy is the starter and there is no competition. Nothing has changed since then.

These are Shanahan's words going into Training Camp

"Yeah, there's no open competition right now in terms of getting equal reps with the same group. Jimmy is coming in as the No. 1 and Trey is coming in as the No. 2.

We'll give all these guys every opportunity to improve. If someone ever looks like they give us a better chance to win, we'll make that decision then."

That doesn't sound that committed either way. If Kyle wanted to he could come out and say "Jimmy will be our week 1 starter and no amount of interceptions thrown to Fred Warner is going to change that." Instead, whenever Kyle talks about it he never talks about what will happen in the future, only about where things stand right now.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
i dont think you understand my point

im saying the great pat mahomes couldnt beat out alex his rookie year. its not a knock on trey if he cant as well. his time will come.

so we're really gonna believe taylor truly "won" the competition only to go 16-30 for 200 yards week 1 and it only took Herbert one week to "flip the switch" and go on to break all kinds of rookie QB records?

nah not buying it. Either the coaching staff was stupid or they just didn't want him to start regardless.

Mahomes like every other QB is there own person…I understand what you're saying but it really annoying to read over and over in here "well look at Mahomes" like that's what happens every time a QB sits for a yr or doesn't win the starter spot in camp

i'm only using mahomes as an example of it being OK if Lance sits for a bit. Kyle works closely with Lance everyday, I trust his judgement.

Originally posted by Andra:
The point that I was making is that putting the rookie in To get reps is not necessarily the recipe for success, players that don't start right away can still play well. I can't say for sure but my guess is that there are just as many first round rookies that struggle and washout of the league than succeed and do well. what's your guess? That having been said I agree that there is little replacement for live reps but if the kid is raw and not ready he should sit behind Jimmy. You have to trust the coaches evaluation. What do you think, should Shanahan's opinion be trusted on who should start or do you put the rookie in and see what he can do?

I'm not saying it's one way and that's it…I'm saying like I have been saying what Lance is lacking is actually playing football games. Reps.

he's been preparing like a pro now for what amounts to a full NFL season. Only difference is he now knows what team he's gonna play for.

throwing out numbers on what 1st rd QBs have failed is meaningless without context of every single QB that failed and why.

ill trust kyle either way…he hasn't said Lance should sit for a full year either. I throw out his quote all the time…he said it's hard to better at football, by not playing football.

My whole point is people bring up 2 scenarios where a QB sat for a yr+ Isn't some proven this is how it has to be done.