The 2021 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by dhp318:
I would say the comparison is poor - you should compare the games in which JTO was starting. In his 9 games for SF (his only tenure as a starter), JT had 11 INT and 11 fumbles (6 fumbles lost). That is significantly worse than Garoppolo, and also matches what I saw with my own eyes when watching both players as 49ers.

However you want to spell it out, Jimmy's turnovers are not acceptable. "At least he's not as bad as JTO! " isn't something to hang your hat on

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Andra:
I couldn't agree more. To argue that sitting and waiting is the recipe for success is just as foolish as saying starting the kid week one is. There is no sure fire recipe. I trust Shanahan's Judgment as well.
In my opinion though, if it's 50/50 on weather he should start or not I lean towards having him sit and learn and grow hunger to start over having him start and get those reps, and I'm guessing that's were we differ.

That's all fair.

FWIW I have never said Lance needs to be the day one starter. if he's not confident running the plays or his mechanics are a mess, then yes let him sit for as long as he has too to work on that stuff.

My debate has been against the crowd that say sitting for a year will make him vastly better than if he actually played football…everyone's counter is Mahomes. I'm assuming they're gonna expect him to throw for 50 TDs in 2022, only to realize what Mahomes has done isn't the norm.

also I don't doubt Lance is hungry to start and is doing whatever he can to be put in a position to do that…no one is saying hand him the job. End of the day live football is what will help him develop the most imo.

I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

wtf are you talking about? kyle already said trey is playing this year. there is no "if". he's playing.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

wtf are you talking about? kyle already said trey is playing this year. there is no "if". he's playing.

Yea, I'm sure we will. He'll get a few designed runs here and there.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

What's unrealistic? I'm saying that if we sit him this year ala Mahomes, that he'll still have to go through a lot of rookie bumps in 2022. A handful of running plays isn't going to change that. Now, obviously it's a different animal if we make him the full time starter at the bye or something, but I'm talking specifically about the Mahomes situation.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Once our defense started having injuries games got close. You're terrible with context, and your insane hate for the starting qb is clearly having a detrimental effect on your thinking.

Bingo. It's funny how some people love leaving s**t out to try to push their narrative.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Well duh, we only lost 3 games. So, of course we didn't lose as many close games lol

Lost by inches to the Falcons.

Lost to the Seahawks in OT by a missed easy FG

Lost to the Ravens in a game that came down to the wire.

You come across extremely biased when you type stuff like this. Or maybe, you don't remember 2019 that well.

This. The problem with that is many anti-Jimmy 49er fans have selective memory.

The falcons game was an easy win. 7 starters out most on D. If Sherman is in JJ doesn't go bananas.

The Seahawks gave we had an avalanche of injuries. Backup K missed game winning fg. Easy win.

The Ravens game we also had a ton of injuries. Definitely a win, not by much

Falcons game should've been a win even with all those starters out. We lock that game up if George Kittle doesn't have his first career fumble…when he wasn't even touched. He simply lost the ball when trying to switch hands. If he doesn't do that he easily gets the first down we need to kill the clock and win the game.

Are people honesty questioning our accomplishments in 2019? We were one of the most injured teams that season and still went to the SB where we blew a 2 score lead with 7 minutes to play. What the hell are people doing here?

All of this. These posters were watching closely (and remembering) that 2019 season.

And no, Garoppolo isn't a turnover machine. Yes, he needs to cut down the INTs. I think most would agree about that. I've seen true turnover-machine QBs in watching the position closely since the '70s - even have seen good QBs that were more worthy of the "turnover machine" label than Garoppolo.

I'm thinking Garoppolo will cut down on them starting this season. He needs to, no doubt about it. But I also like the way he's competitive and takes it upon himself to immediately come back strong after INTs and help this team re-gain momentum in games time and time again.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

What's unrealistic? I'm saying that if we sit him this year ala Mahomes, that he'll still have to go through a lot of rookie bumps in 2022. A handful of running plays isn't going to change that. Now, obviously it's a different animal if we make him the full time starter at the bye or something, but I'm talking specifically about the Mahomes situation.

yes it will. and i doubt he'll be a runner in every play. that would be Kyle tipping his hand every time Lance came in.

the thing about Lance is he literally has nowhere near the experience in college that Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers or really any of the QBs have had that people have thrown out as an example for their side of the argument. not to mention the level of talent he played against. Lance sitting a year and getting some plays in likely every game every week is a perfect way to bring him a long and learn the speed of the game. it literally puts zero pressure on him to lead a Super Bowl contender in his rookie season.

Originally posted by boast:
yes it will.

the thing about Lance is he literally has nowhere near the experience in college that Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers or really any of the QBs have had that people have thrown out as an example for their side of the argument. not to mention the level of talent he played against. Lance sitting a year and getting some plays in likely every game every week is a perfect way to bring him a long and learn the speed of the game. it literally puts zero pressure on him to lead a Super Bowl contender in his rookie season.

100%. Lance is in a fantastic situation here - all the way around.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Once our defense started having injuries games got close. You're terrible with context, and your insane hate for the starting qb is clearly having a detrimental effect on your thinking.

Bingo. It's funny how some people love leaving s**t out to try to push their narrative.

How does bringing up injuries add anything? The fact is we still had more "coin-flip" (<60% win probability in the final minutes for either team) games in 2019 (10) than any other team. The fact is that winning those games is statistically proven to not be stable year to year. It's also true that teams that win a high number of them typically experience some regression towards the mean in the percentage of those games that they win in the following years. Winning a lot of games in the NFL is hard to do year after year, especially without a top 10 QB and it's even harder without a top 15 or top 20 QB.

There's also zero reason to assume we'll have less injuries this year than we had in 2019.

Originally posted by boast:
yes it will. and i doubt he'll be a runner in every play. that would be Kyle tipping his hand every time Lance came in.

This is the funny thing, when Kyle said Lance will be seeing the field this season, everyone instantly assumed it was going to be for his legs. Maybe some option plays, designed QB runs, hell maybe even some RPOs. But I guarantee you, Lance will get many opportunities to throw the ball, especially when the defense is thinking run.

I still fully expect him to get more runs than passes, but I bet for every 2 or so run plays, he'll get a pass play. After all, pretty sure Kyle and Lynch didn't draft him just for his legs, they were more interested in his arm (although the combo of both is dynamic).

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

What's unrealistic? I'm saying that if we sit him this year ala Mahomes, that he'll still have to go through a lot of rookie bumps in 2022. A handful of running plays isn't going to change that. Now, obviously it's a different animal if we make him the full time starter at the bye or something, but I'm talking specifically about the Mahomes situation.

yes it will. and i doubt he'll be a runner in every play. that would be Kyle tipping his hand every time Lance came in.

the thing about Lance is he literally has nowhere near the experience in college that Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers or really any of the QBs have had that people have thrown out as an example for their side of the argument. not to mention the level of talent he played against. Lance sitting a year and getting some plays in likely every game every week is a perfect way to bring him a long and learn the speed of the game. it literally puts zero pressure on him to lead a Super Bowl contender in his rookie season.

I'm skeptical of that working. Is there an example of a team doing something similar in the last 20 years that was successful?