The 2021 49ers Training Camp Thread

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by boast:
yes it will.

the thing about Lance is he literally has nowhere near the experience in college that Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers or really any of the QBs have had that people have thrown out as an example for their side of the argument. not to mention the level of talent he played against. Lance sitting a year and getting some plays in likely every game every week is a perfect way to bring him a long and learn the speed of the game. it literally puts zero pressure on him to lead a Super Bowl contender in his rookie season.

100%. Lance is in a fantastic situation here - all the way around.

I agree with this

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

What's unrealistic? I'm saying that if we sit him this year ala Mahomes, that he'll still have to go through a lot of rookie bumps in 2022. A handful of running plays isn't going to change that. Now, obviously it's a different animal if we make him the full time starter at the bye or something, but I'm talking specifically about the Mahomes situation.

the goal is to get the bad habits removed. You have so little faith in Lance you think the only way he improves is by putting him in the game? When you are throw in before you are ready that's how bad habits get cemented in you could even see that in the preseason game although i thought he played pretty well for someone who hasnt played real football in over a year

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
How does bringing up injuries add anything? The fact is we still had more "coin-flip" (<60% win probability in the final minutes for either team) games in 2019 (10) than any other team. The fact is that winning those games is statistically proven to not be stable year to year. It's also true that teams that win a high number of them typically experience some regression towards the mean in the percentage of those games that they win in the following years. Winning a lot of games in the NFL is hard to do year after year, especially without a top 10 QB and it's even harder without a top 15 or top 20 QB.

There's also zero reason to assume we'll have less injuries this year than we had in 2019.

Don't you understand the very reason we were in so many close games was strictly because of injuries. I would say almost every single one of them. You do realize how injured we were right? There was a joke going around saying we are the San Francisco 46ers because everyone was injured over 4 to 6 weeks. We absolutely would've crushed so many teams, there would've only been a few close games if any. These injuries were to good and great players not average ones.

Even in the Super Bowl if we had our center, you know that Pr0 bowl alternate Richburg as well as DJ Jones, who would've certainly added some pass rush from the interior as well as much-needed run defending which we lacked in that game if you recall, we would've won. You did see how much pressure we were allowing up the middle right? Come on man. Injuries was the very reason we were in close games as well as lost the Super Bowl. Sometimes the way you argue I honestly don't think you saw any games in 2019 and you just checked the box scores and forgot to check who was injured.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

What's unrealistic? I'm saying that if we sit him this year ala Mahomes, that he'll still have to go through a lot of rookie bumps in 2022. A handful of running plays isn't going to change that. Now, obviously it's a different animal if we make him the full time starter at the bye or something, but I'm talking specifically about the Mahomes situation.

yes it will. and i doubt he'll be a runner in every play. that would be Kyle tipping his hand every time Lance came in.

the thing about Lance is he literally has nowhere near the experience in college that Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers or really any of the QBs have had that people have thrown out as an example for their side of the argument. not to mention the level of talent he played against. Lance sitting a year and getting some plays in likely every game every week is a perfect way to bring him a long and learn the speed of the game. it literally puts zero pressure on him to lead a Super Bowl contender in his rookie season.

I'm skeptical of that working. Is there an example of a team doing something similar in the last 20 years that was successful?

how many teams picking a qb in the top 5-10 were superbowl contenders in the offseason after the draft. Literally the only one that comes to mind is Mahomes

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I would hope no one would put those kinds of expectations on his redshirt rookie season. Mahomes is the outlier there. It's likely that if we sit Lance all year that the Lance we get in week one 2022 won't be that much different than the one we'd get in week one 2021. He'll still have to go through a lot of the same rookie bumps. You can only learn so much on the bench or from watching film. It might be a bit different if we had an Alex Smith-like type here to help him, but unfortunately that's not the case.

this is a ridiculous take. Lance will see plays in the 2021. he might even start a game if the Niners can wrap up a high playoff seed. why are you acting like he's getting bubble wrapped?

You might have missed the "if we sit Lance all year", but even if we do have him run a couple of zone read plays a game that isn't going to do a whole lot for him. The second scenario is unlikely to occur in this division.

why are you creating unrealistic scenarios and arguing against them?

What's unrealistic? I'm saying that if we sit him this year ala Mahomes, that he'll still have to go through a lot of rookie bumps in 2022. A handful of running plays isn't going to change that. Now, obviously it's a different animal if we make him the full time starter at the bye or something, but I'm talking specifically about the Mahomes situation.

yes it will. and i doubt he'll be a runner in every play. that would be Kyle tipping his hand every time Lance came in.

the thing about Lance is he literally has nowhere near the experience in college that Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers or really any of the QBs have had that people have thrown out as an example for their side of the argument. not to mention the level of talent he played against. Lance sitting a year and getting some plays in likely every game every week is a perfect way to bring him a long and learn the speed of the game. it literally puts zero pressure on him to lead a Super Bowl contender in his rookie season.

I'm skeptical of that working. Is there an example of a team doing something similar in the last 20 years that was successful?

how many teams picking a qb in the top 5-10 were superbowl contenders in the offseason after the draft. Literally the only one that comes to mind is Mahomes

I'm talking specifically about a team that played their rookie QB for a handful of interspersed snaps every game without it disrupting the rhythm of the offense or the starting QB.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I'm talking specifically about a team that played their rookie QB for a handful of interspersed snaps every game without it disrupting the rhythm of the offense or the starting QB.

it wont be whole drives it will just be certain play packages. I think a lot of 3rd and short and red zone inside the 5-10 will go to Lance because he can pass and run

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

I'm talking specifically about a team that played their rookie QB for a handful of interspersed snaps every game without it disrupting the rhythm of the offense or the starting QB.

a similar situation would be the Saints usage of Taysom Hill. not disrupting at all.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I'm talking specifically about a team that played their rookie QB for a handful of interspersed snaps every game without it disrupting the rhythm of the offense or the starting QB.

a similar situation would be the Saints usage of Taysom Hill. not disrupting at all.

True and that would be the floor usage imo

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I'm talking specifically about a team that played their rookie QB for a handful of interspersed snaps every game without it disrupting the rhythm of the offense or the starting QB.

a similar situation would be the Saints usage of Taysom Hill. not disrupting at all.

Hmm, I guess that is similar though I would hope we don't use him like that. Taysom played other positions than just QB and we shouldn't do that with Trey. We also shouldn't run any plays with Trey that will get him hit unnecessarily. Taysom also only attempted 13 passes in his first two years.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
All of this. These posters were watching closely (and remembering) that 2019 season.

And no, Garoppolo isn't a turnover machine. Yes, he needs to cut down the INTs. I think most would agree about that. I've seen true turnover-machine QBs in watching the position closely since the '70s - even have seen good QBs that were more worthy of the "turnover machine" label than Garoppolo.

I'm thinking Garoppolo will cut down on them starting this season. He needs to, no doubt about it. But I also like the way he's competitive and takes it upon himself to immediately come back strong after INTs and help this team re-gain momentum in games time and time again.

Lol yea hes just going to magically flip the switch. Hes still making the same turnover mistakes hes done since he got here back in 2017.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
Lol yea hes just going to magically flip the switch. Hes still making the same turnover mistakes hes done since he got here back in 2017.

as long as he keeps a similar starting record im ok with that

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
All of this. These posters were watching closely (and remembering) that 2019 season.

And no, Garoppolo isn't a turnover machine. Yes, he needs to cut down the INTs. I think most would agree about that. I've seen true turnover-machine QBs in watching the position closely since the '70s - even have seen good QBs that were more worthy of the "turnover machine" label than Garoppolo.

I'm thinking Garoppolo will cut down on them starting this season. He needs to, no doubt about it. But I also like the way he's competitive and takes it upon himself to immediately come back strong after INTs and help this team re-gain momentum in games time and time again.

Lol yea hes just going to magically flip the switch. Hes still making the same turnover mistakes hes done since he got here back in 2017.

I think the more competitive way would be to throw less picks score touchdowns wouldn't you say ?

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Jimmy has something like 40 turnovers in 30 games. I'm not putting 100% blame for every turnover on him (he's had a few bogus pop ups by our receivers) but the vast majority ARE on him.

Not sure where you are getting your stats. Just making them up I assume. According to every source I could find Jimmy has 26 interceptions in 48 career games. I couldn't find a site that listed fumbles lost but I seriously doubt it is as high as 14. I can only remember a couple in the time he's been in SF and he didn't play enough in NE to wrack up many there. Did you really think you could get away with something that was so easy to disprove just to try and score some cheap points. I am not saying 26 ints in 48 games is anything to write home about but it is a far cry from 40 turnovers in 30 games. Plus he also has 51 TDs, which is about a 2 to 1 ratio which seems pretty normal. I guess some people will lie about anything.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Jimmy has something like 40 turnovers in 30 games. I'm not putting 100% blame for every turnover on him (he's had a few bogus pop ups by our receivers) but the vast majority ARE on him.

Not sure where you are getting your stats. Just making them up I assume. According to every source I could find Jimmy has 26 interceptions in 48 career games. I couldn't find a site that listed fumbles lost but I seriously doubt it is as high as 14. I can only remember a couple in the time he's been in SF and he didn't play enough in NE to wrack up many there. Did you really think you could get away with something that was so easy to disprove just to try and score some cheap points. I am not saying 26 ints in 48 games is anything to write home about but it is a far cry from 40 turnovers in 30 games. Plus he also has 51 TDs, which is about a 2 to 1 ratio which seems pretty normal. I guess some people will lie about anything.

I agree, don't think he had 40 to's in 30 games...but I would like to somewhat agree on the bold from the OP.

Jimmy has started 30 games for us. In those 30 games, he has thrown 26 ints. He has fumbled 17 times in that span and we have recovered 12. So he has 31 turnovers in 30 games for us. I was high but a turnover a game average is pretty terrible to be honest. If you look at most of the top 10 QBs, they're not doing that and certainly have a better TD/int ratio than 2:1 (Jimmy's with us).

All I'm saying is if your concern with Trey is "well he might turn the ball over". Jimmy already does this.