49ers Biggest Problem is NOT What Many Think..

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
When you're depending on 5th and 6th round talent to shore up the team lol

That's the biggest Issue. The early round picks build the foundation for future success. The team Is also soft from top to bottom.

the team is a sounding board of the coach. you coached soft. practice soft. coach not to win, coach scared.. well then your team will be soft and played scared. kyle has done all of the above. the asst coaches have sucked as well as evidenced by the fact our entire team seems to not know how to tackle. lynch and kyle are miserable failures this year and aside from one forgotten year two years ago. have done nothing to make me think they know how to set a team to win long term

Yeah it comes down to couple things (that OTC brought up) we gave the keys to two guys that had zero experience building a team. One was a freaking broadcaster.

Talent evaluation for the most part has been s**t. We got guys in here that have been on point more then them. I'd love to see their draft board, I'd probably lose it lol. They don't believe in BPA or impact of position when they draft. HC's shouldn't be in charge of everything...checks and balances are needed to make a team work, clearly SF has none. Kyle wants Joe Williams even though he's off their board. He gets him, same with Pettis, Hurd, CJ etc. I mean WTF are we doing here.

After the draft issues, it comes down to a lack of development or really just allowing your rookie to play, which is in fact developing. They're awful here. IF you're top 50 pick at RG can't beat out Brunskill, you've either totally whiffed on that pick or you won't allow him to develop. Don't give me the "it's pretty hard to beat out x player" crap when that player is f**king junk and we all see it. I feel like Kyle overall just hates rookies and playing them...he wants ready made guys BUT is unwilling to go the Rams route to get them... or really allow them to play, deal with the lumps which will ultimately get them better. I mean unless you're a Kittle/Warner type rookie who just flashed from day 1, you're not getting on the field and if you do f**k up...you go back to the butt bench. You can't do that with young players today.

So after messing up draft evaluations, poor development, you got FA strategy issues as well....Instead of going and getting that in the prime stud player, they go the cheap route more often then not. They disregard the reasons as to why that player might be cheaper (injury history play on field) and hope it will magically change in SF. They depend on often injured players to take on meaningful snaps and as we've seen it's constantly bit them in the ass.

They miss mange their cap space, where the cash flow is going and hope cheap vet min players will become something they've never been.

Overall there's a lot of WTF are you doing as far as team building goes.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by genus49:
Why are we cutting our best player in the secondary?

I would bring Verrett back on a cheap deal. The problem is when you put all your eggs in the him staying healthy basket. You should have someone you would feel comfortable in starting either right behind him or beating him out.

He is about the only injury prone player on this team i would ponder bringing back. the way this season has went and likely will continue going. very few jobs are safe. bosa. trent williams... trey.. deebo.. thats about it.. even fred warner has underwhelmed.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah it comes down to couple things (that OTC brought up) we gave the keys to two guys that had zero experience building a team. One was a freaking broadcaster.

Talent evaluation for the most part has been s**t. We got guys in here that have been on point more then them. I'd love to see their draft board, I'd probably lose it lol. They don't believe in BPA or impact of position when they draft. HC's shouldn't be in charge of everything...checks and balances are needed to make a team work, clearly SF has none. Kyle wants Joe Williams even though he's off their board. He gets him, same with Pettis, Hurd, CJ etc. I mean WTF are we doing here.

After the draft issues, it comes down to a lack of development or really just allowing your rookie to play, which is in fact developing. They're awful here. IF you're top 50 pick at RG can't beat out Brunskill, you've either totally whiffed on that pick or you won't allow him to develop. Don't give me the "it's pretty hard to beat out x player" crap when that player is f**king junk and we all see it. I feel like Kyle overall just hates rookies and playing them...he wants ready made guys BUT is unwilling to go the Rams route to get them... or really allow them to play, deal with the lumps which will ultimately get them better. I mean unless you're a Kittle/Warner type rookie who just flashed from day 1, you're not getting on the field and if you do f**k up...you go back to the butt bench. You can't do that with young players today.

So after messing up draft evaluations, poor development, you got FA strategy issues as well....Instead of going and getting that in the prime stud player, they go the cheap route more often then not. They disregard the reasons as to why that player might be cheaper (injury history play on field) and hope it will magically change in SF. They depend on often injured players to take on meaningful snaps and as we've seen it's constantly bit them in the ass.

They miss mange their cap space, where the cash flow is going and hope cheap vet min players will become something they've never been.

Overall there's a lot of WTF are you doing as far as team building goes.

Coincidentally, every point you made was also made during the Harbaalke era. Maybe it is a FO/ownership issue since now 2 different regimes have the same exact issues affect this franchise.

The only difference between the Harbaugh and Shanahan era's are the reason for all the injuries. When Harbaugh was here it was because his TC's and practices were too intense and too physical. Now, its because TC's and practices are too laid back and too soft.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Injuries happen, the problem is that Kyle is soft on his team and they practice soft and get hurt on GameDay.

I wrote about it a couple of days ago, and the Steve Young article on the front page also said it, "This team lacks toughness and grit."

My current model is the Tennessee Titans. The team models their coach. Mike Vrabel played with passion and grit and was successful not because he had great talent. He just hated to lose. His team plays the same way. Older 49er fans will remember the way Ronnie Lott played. His famous "cut off the finger" response to missing a game is the prototype mentality it takes to win. When your hate of losing becomes greater than your desire to win, you accomplish both, however, it must be in that order.

OTOH, when things go wrong for Kyle, he just mutters a line of expletives and walks away. You cannot inspire and lead men that way. At some point, Kyle will have to learn how to be a leader of men instead of just a play designer.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Injuries happen, the problem is that Kyle is soft on his team and they practice soft and get hurt on GameDay.

I wrote about it a couple of days ago, and the Steve Young article on the front page also said it, "This team lacks toughness and grit."

My current model is the Tennessee Titans. The team models their coach. Mike Vrabel played with passion and grit and was successful not because he had great talent. He just hated to lose. His team plays the same way. Older 49er fans will remember the way Ronnie Lott played. His famous "cut off the finger" response to missing a game is the prototype mentality it takes to win. When your hate of losing becomes greater than your desire to win, you accomplish both, however, it must be in that order.

OTOH, when things go wrong for Kyle, he just mutters a line of expletives and walks away. You cannot inspire and lead men that way. At some point, Kyle will have to learn how to be a leader of men instead of just a play designer.

Sooooffftttt!

Confirmed.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah it comes down to couple things (that OTC brought up) we gave the keys to two guys that had zero experience building a team. One was a freaking broadcaster.

Talent evaluation for the most part has been s**t. We got guys in here that have been on point more then them. I'd love to see their draft board, I'd probably lose it lol. They don't believe in BPA or impact of position when they draft. HC's shouldn't be in charge of everything...checks and balances are needed to make a team work, clearly SF has none. Kyle wants Joe Williams even though he's off their board. He gets him, same with Pettis, Hurd, CJ etc. I mean WTF are we doing here.

After the draft issues, it comes down to a lack of development or really just allowing your rookie to play, which is in fact developing. They're awful here. IF you're top 50 pick at RG can't beat out Brunskill, you've either totally whiffed on that pick or you won't allow him to develop. Don't give me the "it's pretty hard to beat out x player" crap when that player is f**king junk and we all see it. I feel like Kyle overall just hates rookies and playing them...he wants ready made guys BUT is unwilling to go the Rams route to get them... or really allow them to play, deal with the lumps which will ultimately get them better. I mean unless you're a Kittle/Warner type rookie who just flashed from day 1, you're not getting on the field and if you do f**k up...you go back to the butt bench. You can't do that with young players today.

So after messing up draft evaluations, poor development, you got FA strategy issues as well....Instead of going and getting that in the prime stud player, they go the cheap route more often then not. They disregard the reasons as to why that player might be cheaper (injury history play on field) and hope it will magically change in SF. They depend on often injured players to take on meaningful snaps and as we've seen it's constantly bit them in the ass.

They miss mange their cap space, where the cash flow is going and hope cheap vet min players will become something they've never been.

Overall there's a lot of WTF are you doing as far as team building goes.

That's a damn fine rant right there.

Originally posted by Poldarn49:
Talent retention is not the problem. The problem is relying on injured/injury-prone players. Which excuses the FO from going after top free agents (as the team has good starters when healthy), but forces the FO to scramble for street FA signings due to the lack of available depth when the injury strikes (like the perennial injuries to Ford, Verrett, and Tartt).

This is also a major reason

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah it comes down to couple things (that OTC brought up) we gave the keys to two guys that had zero experience building a team. One was a freaking broadcaster.

Talent evaluation for the most part has been s**t. We got guys in here that have been on point more then them. I'd love to see their draft board, I'd probably lose it lol. They don't believe in BPA or impact of position when they draft. HC's shouldn't be in charge of everything...checks and balances are needed to make a team work, clearly SF has none. Kyle wants Joe Williams even though he's off their board. He gets him, same with Pettis, Hurd, CJ etc. I mean WTF are we doing here.

After the draft issues, it comes down to a lack of development or really just allowing your rookie to play, which is in fact developing. They're awful here. IF you're top 50 pick at RG can't beat out Brunskill, you've either totally whiffed on that pick or you won't allow him to develop. Don't give me the "it's pretty hard to beat out x player" crap when that player is f**king junk and we all see it. I feel like Kyle overall just hates rookies and playing them...he wants ready made guys BUT is unwilling to go the Rams route to get them... or really allow them to play, deal with the lumps which will ultimately get them better. I mean unless you're a Kittle/Warner type rookie who just flashed from day 1, you're not getting on the field and if you do f**k up...you go back to the butt bench. You can't do that with young players today.

So after messing up draft evaluations, poor development, you got FA strategy issues as well....Instead of going and getting that in the prime stud player, they go the cheap route more often then not. They disregard the reasons as to why that player might be cheaper (injury history play on field) and hope it will magically change in SF. They depend on often injured players to take on meaningful snaps and as we've seen it's constantly bit them in the ass.

They miss mange their cap space, where the cash flow is going and hope cheap vet min players will become something they've never been.

Overall there's a lot of WTF are you doing as far as team building goes.

Coincidentally, every point you made was also made during the Harbaalke era. Maybe it is a FO/ownership issue since now 2 different regimes have the same exact issues affect this franchise.

The only difference between the Harbaugh and Shanahan era's are the reason for all the injuries. When Harbaugh was here it was because his TC's and practices were too intense and too physical. Now, its because TC's and practices are too laid back and too soft.

That is because the linking factor is paraag becoming head of football operations and being a cheap ass with the signings and putting his input into the draft.

The so called cap wizard keeps thinking he's getting a deal on either injured draft prospects that have fallen or overpaying for guys coming off injury based on ore injury production. He's been forcing his slimy hand into the draft and free agency over the gms and coaches heads.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
NOT THE ISSUE: ADDING ROOKIE TALENT
I've seen many say our drafts have been crap, and if you ONLY looked at the big whiffs in particular in a couple of our classes on early picks, you'd think "Good God, they suck at drafting..." But analyzing our hit rate versus other teams, ours is actually significantly better than I expected. I estimate we drafted contributors on at least 16/40 picks over the past 5 years (40% hit rate). Looking at our division foes, we have done significantly better than Seattle and LA (although they've gotten talent to stay competitive in other ways -- more on that later). The strange thing is just that the 49ers are somehow managing to do it very backwards, hitting on tons of late picks and UDFAs more than their picks in the first four rounds.

These are the ones I qualified as "hits" or "contributors" in my opinion:
OL Jaylon Moore (5th)
CB Deommodore Lenoir (5th)
S Talanoa Hufanga (5th)
RB Elijah Mitchell (6th)
WR Brandon Aiyuk (1st)
TE Charlie Woener (6th)
DE Nick Bosa (1st)
WR Deebo Samuel (2nd)
P Mitch Wishnowsky (4th)
LB Dre Greenlaw (5th)
TE Kaden Smith (6th) - Not with the team, but lost from PS to NYG where he's started.
OT Mike McGlinchey (1st)
LB Fred Warner (3rd)
S/LB Marcell Harris (6th)
TE George Kittle (5th)
DT DJ Jones (6th)

On average, we have added at least 1 Pro Bowler per year in the draft (Warner, Kittle, Bosa, and Samuel likely makes it this year if healthy)

THE REAL ISSUE: TALENT RETENTION & OVERALL RISK MANAGEMENT IN PERSONNEL DECISIONS
First off, plain and simple, we have not found a way to keep our best players/leaders here (Buckner and Sanders, for example). This problem has been compounded by the fact that the team has been absolutely horrific at managing their risk, relying on players with injury histories at STARTING POSITIONS, such as Jimmy G, Verrett, Ward, Tartt, Mostert, Ford, K'Waun Williams, Aziz Al-Shaair, DJ Jones, Jeff Wilson, and Kentavius Street. We know that these players can do some good while on the field, but we pay them too much to miss as many games as they have. This level of risk -- essentially fielding half or more than half of an entire side of the ball's starters -- seems absolutely insane to me. It's not like those guys I mentioned suddenly had a slew of injuries just recently. They've been known injury prone guys for years, some even dating back to college.

PROBLEM IDENTIFIED, SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER?: SIGNIFICANT ROSTER SHAKE-UP
The team absolutely must change its approach in 2022, and I'd like to see significant roster turnover and a fresh start with as many new faces replacing aging, injury prone players who are set to become UFAs in 2022. Below, the bold are the FAs I'd consider keeping for the right price.

49ERS 2022 FREE AGENTS
C Jake Brendel
CB Jason Verrett
CB K'Waun Williams
CB Josh Norman
CB Dre Kirkpatrick
CB Dontae Johnson
DE Arden Key
DE Jordan Willis
DT D.J. Jones
DT Maurice Hurst
DT Kentavius Street
DT Kevin Givens
LB Marcell Harris
LB Azeez Al-Shaair
LB Demetrius Flannigan-Fowles
LG Laken Tomlinson
RB Raheem Mostert
RB Jeff Wilson
RB Trenton Cannon
RB JaMycal Hasty
RG Tom Compton
RG Daniel Brunskill
S Jaquiski Tartt
S Tavon Wilson
S Tarvarius Moore
S Kai Nacua
TE Ross Dwelley
WR Mohamed Sanu
WR Travis Benjamin
WR Trent Sherfield
WR Jauan Jennings
WR Richie James

NON-FREE AGENTS THAT I'D CUT OR TRADE (IF POSSIBLE) WHOSE CAP IMPACT WOULD ALLOW IT
QB Jimmy Garoppolo - Obvious reasons, big contract and not the future
DE Samson Ebukam - Don't think he's fitting as well as they thought he would. Might be expendable with Omenihu joining us.
S Jimmie Ward - Post June 1st cut/trade
DE Dee Ford - Post June 1st cut

Summary/Bottom Line:
The 49ers have completely mismanaged their resources. They've passed too often on adding star talent via trades (but had no issues trading three 1sts and more for a raw rookie QB), and they've spent tons of money on players with injury histories, consistently finishing among league leaders in players on IR/salary cap percentage on IR. And even in the draft where they've actually done better than people think, they've spent resources on a lot more players with medical concerns than you'd like. The bottom line is that their philosophy needs to change. If you have a superstar that's a leader, KEEP THEM. Kittle, Warner, and Trent are good examples. They failed with Buck. So, quit with the "Moneyball" crap, and put more emphasis on toughness and reliability, which Buckner was a perfect model of. Otherwise, we're going to continue to see the majority of our starters stretchered off or carted off the field as we're yet again forced to field a pre-season style roster.

These are the offensive players from past five year drafts that are contributing.

RB Elijah Mitchell (6th)
WR Brandon Aiyuk (1st)
WR Deebo Samuel (2nd)
TE George Kittle (5th)

Aiyuk has had a rough year, but hopefully he will start turning it around. (Seems he plays better when Kittle is on the field)

But for five drafts, this is unacceptable on the offensive side of the ball. On top of that Deebo and Kittle (when healthy) are the only ones getting the ball. The other receivers are non-existent. The FO has done nothing to address RB depth after Mostert. Seem to just let it ride, not wanting to make any moves. We have significant coaching issues on all sides of the ball on top of talent retention and risk management.

Don't forget another issue besides everything talked about already is leadership.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/steve-young-gives-jerry-rices-162301078.html

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah it comes down to couple things (that OTC brought up) we gave the keys to two guys that had zero experience building a team. One was a freaking broadcaster.

Talent evaluation for the most part has been s**t. We got guys in here that have been on point more then them. I'd love to see their draft board, I'd probably lose it lol. They don't believe in BPA or impact of position when they draft. HC's shouldn't be in charge of everything...checks and balances are needed to make a team work, clearly SF has none. Kyle wants Joe Williams even though he's off their board. He gets him, same with Pettis, Hurd, CJ etc. I mean WTF are we doing here.

After the draft issues, it comes down to a lack of development or really just allowing your rookie to play, which is in fact developing. They're awful here. IF you're top 50 pick at RG can't beat out Brunskill, you've either totally whiffed on that pick or you won't allow him to develop. Don't give me the "it's pretty hard to beat out x player" crap when that player is f**king junk and we all see it. I feel like Kyle overall just hates rookies and playing them...he wants ready made guys BUT is unwilling to go the Rams route to get them... or really allow them to play, deal with the lumps which will ultimately get them better. I mean unless you're a Kittle/Warner type rookie who just flashed from day 1, you're not getting on the field and if you do f**k up...you go back to the butt bench. You can't do that with young players today.

So after messing up draft evaluations, poor development, you got FA strategy issues as well....Instead of going and getting that in the prime stud player, they go the cheap route more often then not. They disregard the reasons as to why that player might be cheaper (injury history play on field) and hope it will magically change in SF. They depend on often injured players to take on meaningful snaps and as we've seen it's constantly bit them in the ass.

They miss mange their cap space, where the cash flow is going and hope cheap vet min players will become something they've never been.

Overall there's a lot of WTF are you doing as far as team building goes.

Coincidentally, every point you made was also made during the Harbaalke era. Maybe it is a FO/ownership issue since now 2 different regimes have the same exact issues affect this franchise.

The only difference between the Harbaugh and Shanahan era's are the reason for all the injuries. When Harbaugh was here it was because his TC's and practices were too intense and too physical. Now, its because TC's and practices are too laid back and too soft.

The solution according to OTC is a roster turnover in 2022.

Well if we need a roster turnover in year 6 we must do it.......with a different HC/GM.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah it comes down to couple things (that OTC brought up) we gave the keys to two guys that had zero experience building a team. One was a freaking broadcaster.

Talent evaluation for the most part has been s**t. We got guys in here that have been on point more then them. I'd love to see their draft board, I'd probably lose it lol. They don't believe in BPA or impact of position when they draft. HC's shouldn't be in charge of everything...checks and balances are needed to make a team work, clearly SF has none. Kyle wants Joe Williams even though he's off their board. He gets him, same with Pettis, Hurd, CJ etc. I mean WTF are we doing here.

After the draft issues, it comes down to a lack of development or really just allowing your rookie to play, which is in fact developing. They're awful here. IF you're top 50 pick at RG can't beat out Brunskill, you've either totally whiffed on that pick or you won't allow him to develop. Don't give me the "it's pretty hard to beat out x player" crap when that player is f**king junk and we all see it. I feel like Kyle overall just hates rookies and playing them...he wants ready made guys BUT is unwilling to go the Rams route to get them... or really allow them to play, deal with the lumps which will ultimately get them better. I mean unless you're a Kittle/Warner type rookie who just flashed from day 1, you're not getting on the field and if you do f**k up...you go back to the butt bench. You can't do that with young players today.

So after messing up draft evaluations, poor development, you got FA strategy issues as well....Instead of going and getting that in the prime stud player, they go the cheap route more often then not. They disregard the reasons as to why that player might be cheaper (injury history play on field) and hope it will magically change in SF. They depend on often injured players to take on meaningful snaps and as we've seen it's constantly bit them in the ass.

They miss mange their cap space, where the cash flow is going and hope cheap vet min players will become something they've never been.

Overall there's a lot of WTF are you doing as far as team building goes.

You're just mad, Jed didn't pick you to run the draft/FA.

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
The FO has done nothing to address RB depth after Mostert. Seem to just let it ride, not wanting to make any moves. We have significant coaching issues on all sides of the ball on top of talent retention and risk management.

Nothing? That's BS for sure. Wilson and Hasty, than drafting two more guys is a 5RB room. Wilson has improved each and every year.