Week 14 Cincinnati Bengals Coaches Film Analysis

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
if jimmy throws it at/towards the 50 it's an easy completion

That's not the read....dude.... It's a blind play action to suck up the LB's. When Jimmy turns around he's reading the middle safety. If he sits he hits Aiyuk, IF NOT he moves on. There's no, "throw it toward this way" Aiyuk understands the read, see's the safety take him and tries to pull him away from the play. The actual route Aiyuk is supposed to run is more of a skinny post but since the safety is there that's why he adjusts it. He knows what the QB is looking at and how he's going to throw it.

People are just making way too much of this wanting to blame Jimmy. There's NOTHING in the coverage that dictates a throw anywhere but to Deebo.....NOTHING

not blaming anything.. that was almost another throw to the LB.. luckily that wasn't bobby wagner or would be an INT

Show me the rule where he has to take that option.. the defense gave up the sideline to Aiyuk.. jimmy wasn't pressured.. he pressured himself into taking the harder pass

It's a dagger concept with a short crosser. It's a 3 level vertical stretch down the middle of the field. That's what it is. I've said it above. The first read is on the middle safety. If he's flat footed, you throw the Aiyuk route. If not, you move on. It's the same as if you run a flood route on the outside. The streak will technically be the #1 but rarely thrown because a QB will identify pretty quick if it's going to be there or not then move to the hi/lo on the curl/flat. This is the same thing. When he starts his throw there's nothing to dictate a throw anywhere but Deebo.

but do you not see how they knew that play was coming.. the LB almost beat deebo to the spot.. Just like the Robber that almost ended the game in the 4th Qtr

Flat footed or not that safety won't make it there.. i doubt Kyle would agree not throwing to a guy open because the safety is not flat footed

and my point is Jimmy refuses to go elsewhere except the middle

Quearion: You guys are winning and it's sort of not a big deal, but Deebo's production as a wide receiver has fallen pretty steeply since he began playing a lot of running back. Is that an issue or a reason for concern?

"No, I don't think so. It's just kind of how it is sometimes. Kittle had some real good stats these last two games, the games before that I don't think he did, but it didn't mean he played much different. It's just how it works out. And Deebo didn't play as much on third down. Him not practicing all week, we limited him a bunch with this play count. And I think he ended up getting like 40, 45, but didn't have as many opportunities. But the one we did give him an opportunity he did pretty good on."

This is what Kyle said about it....take it up with him.

Saying what I've felt, it was pretty much designed to go to Deebo the whole way.

Right ok, but the bengals knew the play and was smidge late to the spot

Now, what you're saying is jimmy will throw that same pass every time and won't go anywhere else because of the safety movement. That's going to be an INT to a capable LB.

With all that said, even though the play wasn't going that way, it doesn't make Aiyuk covered

Reading through this, I'm interpreting your argument as being more along the lines of abandoning the play structure because that would make Aiyuk more "open" but I feel like that's giving too much credit to QBs who are more willing to freewheel, especially in hopes for a larger chunk play

Yeah in a sense, the statement was said Aiyuk wasn't open. That's not true. Aiyuk has no one on him deep and to the sideline

he's saying jimmy has no choice but to throw to where deebo and a LB was because the safety baited him to take the shorter pass. If a safety can force jimmy to throw short and in the middle, a team will sit a LB in that area. Seems like that happened before with jimmy sometimes throwing it straight to a defender/LB

What you said earlier is that if Jimmy throws it to the 50, it's a completion. That would hinge on Aiyuk running a route that goes to the 50 (which was not the assignment) OR breaking the structure of the play because Aiyuk was running a corner to the 45ish. And I seriously doubt they designed a play for that safety to be bait against that route combination.

Watch the play, before deebo got the ball Aiyuk is by the 5-0 and already looking back for the ball

not sure if they baited, but the LB knew where it was going and almost beat Deebo to the spot.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jdt84_2:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jdt84_2:
I have a question on 1play.

Nope.

Thank you. The only view i saw over and over was from the 49ers youtube baldy breakdown. It did not show a deeper safety in frame.

Went back and watched it again. I can't see the middle 1/3rd take aiyuk. But his lack of coming down on deebo is telling.

[

Just wanna clear this play up. People saying Jimmy missed Aiyuk on this throw to Deebo. He's in his windup, safety clearly over the top of Aiyuk, MOF wide open. Yes, there was a safety there. pic.twitter.com/ILDDF7mRL8

— JonnydelsFA (@jonnydels) December 16, 2021

Again thank you. I did believe you when you replied to me. just to clear up i did not doubt you, just wanted to explain why I asked.

the baldy break down frame cuts out the safety (almost immediately) and never shows his hips turn, and he never comes back in frame to see where he comes from.

The play starts at 3:54.

Oh I know. That's why I posted it it because people were sharing screenshots and saying there way no safety but didn't see there were only 10 Bengals in the frame. The discussion on Twitter got weird. Vega is saying Jimmy should still throw to Aiyuk even though the read clearly dictates otherwise and Madrid is trying to say that Deebo csme back to the ball not because a LB is closing hut because deebo was expecting an underthrown ball. Then posted Matt Stafford throwing a DIG.....

Weird stuff....

Sooooo much hatetade and amateur hour.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Safety or not... BA is still wide open.

95% of the time jimmy will not throw anywhere else except the middle

No. He's. Not.

Just argued this on Twitter. He's not. Right before the windup the safety is in retreat with hips opened to Aiyuk

That is the read. It's a hi/lo on the free satey to go from 1 to 2 then hi/lo on the hook/curl for 2 to 3. It's a 3 level vertical stretch. Aiyuk is going and finding grass if you pause it AFTER the throw.

This play getting criticized is beyond absurd.

if jimmy throws it at/towards the 50 it's an easy completion

LOL. You sound like Golden in here. Madden gon' Madden.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Safety or not... BA is still wide open.

95% of the time jimmy will not throw anywhere else except the middle

No. He's. Not.

Just argued this on Twitter. He's not. Right before the windup the safety is in retreat with hips opened to Aiyuk

That is the read. It's a hi/lo on the free satey to go from 1 to 2 then hi/lo on the hook/curl for 2 to 3. It's a 3 level vertical stretch. Aiyuk is going and finding grass if you pause it AFTER the throw.

This play getting criticized is beyond absurd.

if jimmy throws it at/towards the 50 it's an easy completion

LOL. You sound like Golden in here. Madden gon' Madden.

You saying jimmy can't throw that far?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Safety or not... BA is still wide open.

95% of the time jimmy will not throw anywhere else except the middle

No. He's. Not.

Just argued this on Twitter. He's not. Right before the windup the safety is in retreat with hips opened to Aiyuk

That is the read. It's a hi/lo on the free satey to go from 1 to 2 then hi/lo on the hook/curl for 2 to 3. It's a 3 level vertical stretch. Aiyuk is going and finding grass if you pause it AFTER the throw.

This play getting criticized is beyond absurd.

if jimmy throws it at/towards the 50 it's an easy completion

LOL. You sound like Golden in here. Madden gon' Madden.

You saying jimmy can't throw that far?

Haha.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
if jimmy throws it at/towards the 50 it's an easy completion

That's not the read....dude.... It's a blind play action to suck up the LB's. When Jimmy turns around he's reading the middle safety. If he sits he hits Aiyuk, IF NOT he moves on. There's no, "throw it toward this way" Aiyuk understands the read, see's the safety take him and tries to pull him away from the play. The actual route Aiyuk is supposed to run is more of a skinny post but since the safety is there that's why he adjusts it. He knows what the QB is looking at and how he's going to throw it.

People are just making way too much of this wanting to blame Jimmy. There's NOTHING in the coverage that dictates a throw anywhere but to Deebo.....NOTHING

not blaming anything.. that was almost another throw to the LB.. luckily that wasn't bobby wagner or would be an INT

Show me the rule where he has to take that option.. the defense gave up the sideline to Aiyuk.. jimmy wasn't pressured.. he pressured himself into taking the harder pass

It's a dagger concept with a short crosser. It's a 3 level vertical stretch down the middle of the field. That's what it is. I've said it above. The first read is on the middle safety. If he's flat footed, you throw the Aiyuk route. If not, you move on. It's the same as if you run a flood route on the outside. The streak will technically be the #1 but rarely thrown because a QB will identify pretty quick if it's going to be there or not then move to the hi/lo on the curl/flat. This is the same thing. When he starts his throw there's nothing to dictate a throw anywhere but Deebo.

but do you not see how they knew that play was coming.. the LB almost beat deebo to the spot.. Just like the Robber that almost ended the game in the 4th Qtr

Flat footed or not that safety won't make it there.. i doubt Kyle would agree not throwing to a guy open because the safety is not flat footed

and my point is Jimmy refuses to go elsewhere except the middle

Quearion: You guys are winning and it's sort of not a big deal, but Deebo's production as a wide receiver has fallen pretty steeply since he began playing a lot of running back. Is that an issue or a reason for concern?

"No, I don't think so. It's just kind of how it is sometimes. Kittle had some real good stats these last two games, the games before that I don't think he did, but it didn't mean he played much different. It's just how it works out. And Deebo didn't play as much on third down. Him not practicing all week, we limited him a bunch with this play count. And I think he ended up getting like 40, 45, but didn't have as many opportunities. But the one we did give him an opportunity he did pretty good on."

This is what Kyle said about it....take it up with him.

Saying what I've felt, it was pretty much designed to go to Deebo the whole way.

Right ok, but the bengals knew the play and was smidge late to the spot

Now, what you're saying is jimmy will throw that same pass every time and won't go anywhere else because of the safety movement. That's going to be an INT to a capable LB.

With all that said, even though the play wasn't going that way, it doesn't make Aiyuk covered

Reading through this, I'm interpreting your argument as being more along the lines of abandoning the play structure because that would make Aiyuk more "open" but I feel like that's giving too much credit to QBs who are more willing to freewheel, especially in hopes for a larger chunk play

Yeah in a sense, the statement was said Aiyuk wasn't open. That's not true. Aiyuk has no one on him deep and to the sideline

he's saying jimmy has no choice but to throw to where deebo and a LB was because the safety baited him to take the shorter pass. If a safety can force jimmy to throw short and in the middle, a team will sit a LB in that area. Seems like that happened before with jimmy sometimes throwing it straight to a defender/LB

What you said earlier is that if Jimmy throws it to the 50, it's a completion. That would hinge on Aiyuk running a route that goes to the 50 (which was not the assignment) OR breaking the structure of the play because Aiyuk was running a corner to the 45ish. And I seriously doubt they designed a play for that safety to be bait against that route combination.

Watch the play, before deebo got the ball Aiyuk is by the 5-0 and already looking back for the ball

not sure if they baited, but the LB knew where it was going and almost beat Deebo to the spot.

Crazy that an opposing team might be prepared? He didn't beat Samuel to the spot though because the throw wasn't late.

We had run that route concept about 3 times before in the game at this point. So, yeah, they were starting to recognize it and Kyle didn't call it the rest of the game.

I think you're not understanding the point. "the safety can bait they'll just put a LB there" that's why it's a 3 level vertical stretch. That's how the play works and also why we ran play action first. If they want to do that, then we'll throw the checkdown and run it the next play because the LB's aren't respecting the run as much. That's literally how Kyle wants it. He wants those LB's having to choose between pass coverage and run coverage.

You're putting 3 players down the MOF where there's only 2 defenders. If the safety takes the seam route(which he did) then you move to the DIG, if the DIG is covered by the LB then you hit the checkdown over the middle. It's a hi/lo progression read. I just don't understand the, "well, he could've thrown it away from the safety to the sideline". But then he's abandoning the progression/key read. People will hate on him sticking to the progression but if he bailed on it and threw a pick or it was incomplete when he had Deebo that open, people would freak the F out. I would 10000% guarantee you Kyle was perfectly fine with how the play was run and executed.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
if jimmy throws it at/towards the 50 it's an easy completion

That's not the read....dude.... It's a blind play action to suck up the LB's. When Jimmy turns around he's reading the middle safety. If he sits he hits Aiyuk, IF NOT he moves on. There's no, "throw it toward this way" Aiyuk understands the read, see's the safety take him and tries to pull him away from the play. The actual route Aiyuk is supposed to run is more of a skinny post but since the safety is there that's why he adjusts it. He knows what the QB is looking at and how he's going to throw it.

People are just making way too much of this wanting to blame Jimmy. There's NOTHING in the coverage that dictates a throw anywhere but to Deebo.....NOTHING

not blaming anything.. that was almost another throw to the LB.. luckily that wasn't bobby wagner or would be an INT

Show me the rule where he has to take that option.. the defense gave up the sideline to Aiyuk.. jimmy wasn't pressured.. he pressured himself into taking the harder pass

It's a dagger concept with a short crosser. It's a 3 level vertical stretch down the middle of the field. That's what it is. I've said it above. The first read is on the middle safety. If he's flat footed, you throw the Aiyuk route. If not, you move on. It's the same as if you run a flood route on the outside. The streak will technically be the #1 but rarely thrown because a QB will identify pretty quick if it's going to be there or not then move to the hi/lo on the curl/flat. This is the same thing. When he starts his throw there's nothing to dictate a throw anywhere but Deebo.

but do you not see how they knew that play was coming.. the LB almost beat deebo to the spot.. Just like the Robber that almost ended the game in the 4th Qtr

Flat footed or not that safety won't make it there.. i doubt Kyle would agree not throwing to a guy open because the safety is not flat footed

and my point is Jimmy refuses to go elsewhere except the middle

Quearion: You guys are winning and it's sort of not a big deal, but Deebo's production as a wide receiver has fallen pretty steeply since he began playing a lot of running back. Is that an issue or a reason for concern?

"No, I don't think so. It's just kind of how it is sometimes. Kittle had some real good stats these last two games, the games before that I don't think he did, but it didn't mean he played much different. It's just how it works out. And Deebo didn't play as much on third down. Him not practicing all week, we limited him a bunch with this play count. And I think he ended up getting like 40, 45, but didn't have as many opportunities. But the one we did give him an opportunity he did pretty good on."

This is what Kyle said about it....take it up with him.

Saying what I've felt, it was pretty much designed to go to Deebo the whole way.

Right ok, but the bengals knew the play and was smidge late to the spot

Now, what you're saying is jimmy will throw that same pass every time and won't go anywhere else because of the safety movement. That's going to be an INT to a capable LB.

With all that said, even though the play wasn't going that way, it doesn't make Aiyuk covered

Reading through this, I'm interpreting your argument as being more along the lines of abandoning the play structure because that would make Aiyuk more "open" but I feel like that's giving too much credit to QBs who are more willing to freewheel, especially in hopes for a larger chunk play

Yeah in a sense, the statement was said Aiyuk wasn't open. That's not true. Aiyuk has no one on him deep and to the sideline

he's saying jimmy has no choice but to throw to where deebo and a LB was because the safety baited him to take the shorter pass. If a safety can force jimmy to throw short and in the middle, a team will sit a LB in that area. Seems like that happened before with jimmy sometimes throwing it straight to a defender/LB

What you said earlier is that if Jimmy throws it to the 50, it's a completion. That would hinge on Aiyuk running a route that goes to the 50 (which was not the assignment) OR breaking the structure of the play because Aiyuk was running a corner to the 45ish. And I seriously doubt they designed a play for that safety to be bait against that route combination.

Watch the play, before deebo got the ball Aiyuk is by the 5-0 and already looking back for the ball

not sure if they baited, but the LB knew where it was going and almost beat Deebo to the spot.

Crazy that an opposing team might be prepared? He didn't beat Samuel to the spot though because the throw wasn't late.

We had run that route concept about 3 times before in the game at this point. So, yeah, they were starting to recognize it and Kyle didn't call it the rest of the game.

I think you're not understanding the point. "the safety can bait they'll just put a LB there" that's why it's a 3 level vertical stretch. That's how the play works and also why we ran play action first. If they want to do that, then we'll throw the checkdown and run it the next play because the LB's aren't respecting the run as much. That's literally how Kyle wants it. He wants those LB's having to choose between pass coverage and run coverage.

You're putting 3 players down the MOF where there's only 2 defenders. If the safety takes the seam route(which he did) then you move to the DIG, if the DIG is covered by the LB then you hit the checkdown over the middle. It's a hi/lo progression read. I just don't understand the, "well, he could've thrown it away from the safety to the sideline". But then he's abandoning the progression/key read. People will hate on him sticking to the progression but if he bailed on it and threw a pick or it was incomplete when he had Deebo that open, people would freak the F out. I would 10000% guarantee you Kyle was perfectly fine with how the play was run and executed.

you keep talking about the Design.. that has been establised. I'm not saying he should go away from what ever was called and throw it. But Aiyuk is still open.even if the ball is not going that way.

yes the LB didn't beat him nor the throw was late. but the LB was trying to get to that spot and was tenths of sec late. a better LB would be there.

As for options being covered or taken away and going with another option. Jimmy has a hard time seeing that check down or other option. that's why almost all his throws are towards the middle and are contested, intercepted or fitted through a tight window.. He says he's being greedy, but being greedy is taking the easy stuff like aa open checkdown or the open guy down field

i'm not a jimmy defender but this:

why almost all his throws are towards the middle and are contested, intercepted or fitted through a tight window

is funny and not true (yes he throws mostly to the middle but not all of his throws are in the middle AND those other things)

Originally posted by frenchmov:
i'm not a jimmy defender but this:

why almost all his throws are towards the middle and are contested, intercepted or fitted through a tight window

is funny and not true (yes he throws mostly to the middle but not all of his throws are in the middle AND those other things)

Replace All with majority