SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS at TENNESSEE TITANS - 2021 Game 15

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It CAN make the job easier but that's only if the running game is working. Again, we only had 80 yards rushing and Vrabel is too smart of a coach to not flood the middle and do what NE always did...take away the team's #1 weapon. They are #2 in run defense and took away Kittle. That's what they do. That's just not a good matchup for our winning formula.

But overall, I agree with your premise.

As to Jimmy, totally agreed. He's as bipolar as it gets at times.

But this is where Kyle needs to read his own QB. If Bad Jimmy is rearing his ugly head (it showed early), get back to the quick slants, screens, check downs, running game, etc. until he's recalibrated. We all could see it but he can't?

I think Kyle read his QB fine last night. You could tell just before half when SF got the ball with I believe 2 timeouts, Shanahan turtled and went into a shell because he didn't want to risk a turnover/Titan score before half. He was right, because that's basically what happened when SF got the ball in the second half with their first possession. The second Jimmy int....he had the checkdown, made a poor choice/throw, and it was basically over.

If Kyle has done a disservice to Garoppolo, it was the whole 'trying to find packages for Lance' throughout the season, instead of just running with one guy. It's one thing if it's Payton with Brees and Hill, but Garoppolo is no Brees. I think Kyle realized it, and that's why we haven't seen anything from Lance in a couple of months it seems.

Again....this wasn't all on JG, but last night really seems like it's lights out, and right or wrong, it's how a lot of people are gonna remember Garoppolo.

Agreed. I was fine shutting it down and going into half time with a 2 score lead on the road on the East Coast with your defense playing terrific.

I just meant, after the INT and shortly there after, you could see what the Titans were doing with Kittle and flooding (their strengths + run defense) so that's when you change up to something else instead of the intermediate middle scheme. When a team gets into Jimmy's confidence, we know what happens going forward. He presses and gets blinders on. Pull back, make it easier and build back up his confidence.

I'm not saying Kyle should HAVE too but that's just reality and he's going to have to do that for Trey too esp. as a young first time starter.

Jimmy has no balls and is a nervous nelly once he throws a pick, I doubt Lance is the same way , he seems more tough

No doubt Jittery Jimmy has QB PTSD from years of abuse. Trey doesn't have that yet. He doesn't know what he doesn't know yet.

Originally posted by NCommand:
No doubt Jittery Jimmy has QB PTSD from years of abuse. Trey doesn't have that yet. He doesn't know what he doesn't know yet.

I bet he knows which team not to throw the ball to.

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The problem is playoffs expose ALL of your team issues...like last night. To a tee.

The majority of the teams in the playoffs this year have issues. Mediocrity is in full sway around the league. The Titans, with Henry back on the field, may be the best of the bunch. To your point, even with the issues, last night was a very winnable game. The offense moved the ball when they needed to but Ryans failed to adjust coverage to counter Brown. Issues...

Our issue is when jimmy has to throw, teams who know this will stack the box and shut down our run game and make jimmy beat them and so we lose

There are very very few teams who can stuff our run game AND take Kittle away AND flood the middle against our passing game. Titans are one of those teams.

So yeah, if you have the scheme and personnel to do it, that's a winning formula but even with that said, we still almost won. LOL

Everyone knows where we're going to pass and still rarely stop it (enough to win). It's weird actually.

Originally posted by Deebo:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No doubt Jittery Jimmy has QB PTSD from years of abuse. Trey doesn't have that yet. He doesn't know what he doesn't know yet.

I bet he knows which team not to throw the ball to.

Haha. Garoppolo seriously needs Lasik, I swear.

Few things I'm still pissed off with:

1. Why was Ambry Thomas left alone on an island??
2. Why did Shanahan abandon the running game??
3. Why did Shanahan stop with the misdirection??
4. Why the f**k can't our Safeties takeaway the ball!!!!

So frustrating!!!! This is not a playoffs team by any means, and even if the 9ers do make the playoffs they'll be nothing but a warm up game!!!! No killer instinct with this team, just a bunch of nice guys who can play well some times.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Deebo:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No doubt Jittery Jimmy has QB PTSD from years of abuse. Trey doesn't have that yet. He doesn't know what he doesn't know yet.

I bet he knows which team not to throw the ball to.

Haha. Garoppolo seriously needs Lasik, I swear.

thats not going to help

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The problem is playoffs expose ALL of your team issues...like last night. To a tee.

The majority of the teams in the playoffs this year have issues. Mediocrity is in full sway around the league. The Titans, with Henry back on the field, may be the best of the bunch. To your point, even with the issues, last night was a very winnable game. The offense moved the ball when they needed to but Ryans failed to adjust coverage to counter Brown. Issues...

Our issue is when jimmy has to throw, teams who know this will stack the box and shut down our run game and make jimmy beat them and so we lose

There are very very few teams who can stuff our run game AND take Kittle away AND flood the middle against our passing game. Titans are one of those teams.

So yeah, if you have the scheme and personnel to do it, that's a winning formula but even with that said, we still almost won. LOL

Everyone knows where we're going to pass and still rarely stop it (enough to win). It's weird actually.

Every team in this era has a weakness. Free agency and the salary cap make it hard to keep a team together so you're always trying to plug a hole somewhere.

When you face a team that has the right strengths to exploit your weakness, you're probably going to lose or at least be in for a struggle. It's one reason the Rams struggle against the Niners. They don't match up well.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Few things I'm still pissed off with:

1. Why was Ambry Thomas left alone on an island??
2. Why did Shanahan abandon the running game??
3. Why did Shanahan stop with the misdirection??
4. Why the f**k can't our Safeties takeaway the ball!!!!

So frustrating!!!! This is not a playoffs team by any means, and even if the 9ers do make the playoffs they'll be nothing but a warm up game!!!! No killer instinct with this team, just a bunch of nice guys who can play well some times.

Ambry Thomas gave up 1 play and was our best CB. Or did you mean Norman?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That would make sense if this was a wide open spread offense but this isn't a QB-centric offense. Jimmy played like ass and we still could have won if the defense made one stop at the end and got the ball back, even after one first down.

That said, to your point, because it's not a QB-centric offense, every single pass counts...good or bad, there's going to be a massive spot light on it and the focus with remain on "efficiency" stats.

Our QB's just aren't going to be throwing 50 times a game here when it is built to run, play keep away with owning the TOP and dominate with the pass rush and DL.

That only enhances the fact. You're right, that this is a run-oriented offense, but given the success we have off of that, and using play action, it makes the job easier for the QB. He's not asked to go out and outright win games week after week, but he is asked to make plays when the opportunity arises. The second int was a Jimmy Special.....every second or third week. The miss to Juice? That might have been his worst throw on that play, but he's missed Kyle many other times when that play is ran. It's one thing that if the pass was garbage, and Juszczyk has to wait for the ball/gets tackled, but to airmail it like that with no completion? That is simply inexcusable.

It CAN make the job easier but that's only if the running game is working. Again, we only had 80 yards rushing and Vrabel is too smart of a coach to not flood the middle and do what NE always did...take away the team's #1 weapon. They are #2 in run defense and took away Kittle. That's what they do. That's just not a good matchup for our winning formula.

But overall, I agree with your premise.

As to Jimmy, totally agreed. He's as bipolar as it gets at times.

But this is where Kyle needs to read his own QB. If Bad Jimmy is rearing his ugly head (it showed early), get back to the quick slants, screens, check downs, running game, etc. until he's recalibrated. We all could see it but he can't?

Got to disagree on part of this. Play-action works whether or not the run is working.

https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/10/29/play-action-passing-is-the-best-play-in-football/

It can but Wilson only had 45 yards rushing and were weren't stretchimg them and I didn't see too many defenders biting too much. They seemed a bit more disciplined than some we've faced. They did seem fooled on the naked boots though.

That's probably because the rule number 1 of playing the 49ers is stay in your gaps.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I'm sick and tired of people talking about the other problems with this team other than Jimmy. Saying, well Jimmy isn't the only reason we lost. NO s**t! Every team has something wrong with them. Every single one. We could sit here all day and pick apart the Rams, Cardinals, Packers, Bucs, Chiefs…etc. They all have weaknesses.

The reason why these teams are actually contenders for the SB despite the weaknesses of their rosters is because of the Quarterbacks. That's it. It's that easy.

Stability at the QB position for this team as constructed is the difference between being 8-7 now and leading this division with 11 wins.

Jimmy G is what is holding this team back from being a contender. End of discussion.

So your contention is the 49ers have a Super Bowl caliber defense?

OK.

If they had a legitimate franchise QB, I say they do.

Despite our QB giving them short fields to defend, our defense is still only 2 spots behind the Bucs' defense in points (17 and 15 respectfully), and 4th in yards. The defense is not great. But it's good. And last night showed exactly what happens when your QB is garbage but you have a good defense: defense starts out utterly DOMINATING. Then they get gassed and demoralized from their QB handing a win to the opponent on a silver platter. And then they give up 20 points instead of the shutout they were on their way to pitching.

So yeah, we have a Super Bowl caliber defense. We just don't have a Super Bowl caliber quarterback.

EDIT — this is not to say that Jimmy IS garbage. He WAS garbage yesterday. But in general he's a mediocre QB. He's on Ryan Tannehill's level, incidentally.

Gotta disagree here. This falls into that "transcending QB" category for me. There's very few QB's that are going to transcend all the other real-world team issues we have right now and win a Superbowl. I just don't see it.

Way too many mental errors, lack of discipline, special teams, home issues, defense, pass protection when predictable, critical injuries at critical positions, etc.

But that's cool if you think we're just a slightly better QB away from winning a Superbowl. Obviously I hope you're right!

And I say we would have won this game if Colt McCoy was our QB yesterday. All you have to do to win with this team and scheme as a quarterback is pick up a few third and shorts and don't turn the ball over. When Jimmy does that, he gets crowned as elite here. When he doesn't, we lose. But around 20 other QBs could do what he does here, and probably 12 would make this team a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Here is a list of 12 QBs who would elevate this team to legitimate Super Bowl contender, as opposed to the possible playoff bound also-ran we look like now:

Rodgers
Mahomes
Herbert
Brady
Allen
Wilson
Prescott
Stafford (Yep, Stafford is better than Jimmy, we just faced him on one of his worst games of the year)
Carr (Yep, Carr is better than Jimmy, he just plays on a crappier team)
Murray (Yep, Murray is better than Jimmy, because he is more accurate, has a stronger arm, and has far more mobility; he bails out his college-level head coach)
Burrow (Yeah, definitely better, only homers disagree)
Wentz (Most of us thought he was done, but he's shown this year he's on his way to being one of the better QBs in the league)

Fortunately for us, I'm fairly confident within two years Trey is going to be on that list here.

I'm not so sure bud. Brady had a meltdown with a couple lost players to injuries. Mahomes was a high school QB to start the year with his OL trying to gel. Wilson?

No doubt those are better players and more accomplished but only 1 or 2 I see overcoming the grocery list of issues on games like last night. Again, when we lose, it's a collective fail each time. Quite consistent too.

Jimmy has never when on this team had the dearth of weapons Brady did vs the Saints (four of the top five weapons were out). And Mahomes' "high school" QBing was still putting up better production than Jimmy has this year (Up to before the Raiders game, when the criticism of him was at a head, he had thrown 20 touchdowns to 10 INTs — which is better than Jimmy's seasonal output before the Titans game: Mahomes WORST is better than Jimmy in arguably his best season).

Really I don't get it. It's like there's an incredible blind spot to how other QBs do on these forums.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
If that's the question, then YES! YES!!!! Unequivocally YES!

A slightly better QB means we have at least slightly 11 more points than 17, which means the score is 26-20 when the clock hits zero — and honestly it's probably a lot more than that. It only takes a slightly better QB to see that the corner has underneath leverage on Kittle on that first INT, and only a slightly better QB hits the wide open Juice. Perhaps a slightly better QB throws that second interception, or perhaps the first. But not both.

So yes. A slightly better QB = we win this game, and probably two more, which means we're in the race for the 1 seed right now.

Slight sidetrack here: Mike Vrabel clearly outcoached Shanahan and Kittle. Out in the middle of the field, Vrabel had safeties on Kittle. Down in the red zone, he had a quicker CB on Kittle and Jenkins was able to react faster than a safety and made the pick. Jenkins didn't have leverage on Kittle, he just reacted quicker than Kittle and Garoppolo expected. In the end, the result is the same but the coaching difference is worth noting.

It looked like it from the game film, but that's hard to know until all 22. That said, Vrable putting a CB on Kittle and double teaming him is not something Shanahan can or SHOULD coach around. When that happens, it's up to the QUARTERBACK to do this little magical thing called reading the defense, and throw to one of the other targets. But he usually decides where he's throwing pre-snap, and that's one more reason we drafted Trey Lance.

EDIT — Let me add this: the cb DID have leverage on that play. Here's what I mean by that: When you're running a corner-stop, the LAST thing you want, is the DB to have his body open to the QB and the intended target. You want him to flip his hips to chase that corner route. Look at him:



Look how his chest is, how his hips are. The only leverage that would be worse than this for the corner-stop is if he was playing in front of Kittle.

This ball should have never been thrown, and it's not Shanahan's fault, nor is it just an amazing play that the QB couldn't have avoided. The DB did make the play, and it was a good one, but this INT is 100% Jimmy's.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Few things I'm still pissed off with:

1. Why was Ambry Thomas left alone on an island??
2. Why did Shanahan abandon the running game??
3. Why did Shanahan stop with the misdirection??
4. Why the f**k can't our Safeties takeaway the ball!!!!

So frustrating!!!! This is not a playoffs team by any means, and even if the 9ers do make the playoffs they'll be nothing but a warm up game!!!! No killer instinct with this team, just a bunch of nice guys who can play well some times.

Ambry Thomas gave up 1 play and was our best CB. Or did you mean Norman?

That one play was a touchdown. Yes he has played pretty well, but that's with Safety help.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Deebo:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No doubt Jittery Jimmy has QB PTSD from years of abuse. Trey doesn't have that yet. He doesn't know what he doesn't know yet.

I bet he knows which team not to throw the ball to.

Haha. Garoppolo seriously needs Lasik, I swear.

thats not going to help

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The problem is playoffs expose ALL of your team issues...like last night. To a tee.

The majority of the teams in the playoffs this year have issues. Mediocrity is in full sway around the league. The Titans, with Henry back on the field, may be the best of the bunch. To your point, even with the issues, last night was a very winnable game. The offense moved the ball when they needed to but Ryans failed to adjust coverage to counter Brown. Issues...

Our issue is when jimmy has to throw, teams who know this will stack the box and shut down our run game and make jimmy beat them and so we lose

There are very very few teams who can stuff our run game AND take Kittle away AND flood the middle against our passing game. Titans are one of those teams.

So yeah, if you have the scheme and personnel to do it, that's a winning formula but even with that said, we still almost won. LOL

Everyone knows where we're going to pass and still rarely stop it (enough to win). It's weird actually.

Every team in this era has a weakness. Free agency and the salary cap make it hard to keep a team together so you're always trying to plug a hole somewhere.

When you face a team that has the right strengths to exploit your weakness, you're probably going to lose or at least be in for a struggle. It's one reason the Rams struggle against the Niners. They don't match up well.

100%. It's all about getting the proper matchups. Some teams we're built to exploit and some teams, exploit us every time.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That would make sense if this was a wide open spread offense but this isn't a QB-centric offense. Jimmy played like ass and we still could have won if the defense made one stop at the end and got the ball back, even after one first down.

That said, to your point, because it's not a QB-centric offense, every single pass counts...good or bad, there's going to be a massive spot light on it and the focus with remain on "efficiency" stats.

Our QB's just aren't going to be throwing 50 times a game here when it is built to run, play keep away with owning the TOP and dominate with the pass rush and DL.

That only enhances the fact. You're right, that this is a run-oriented offense, but given the success we have off of that, and using play action, it makes the job easier for the QB. He's not asked to go out and outright win games week after week, but he is asked to make plays when the opportunity arises. The second int was a Jimmy Special.....every second or third week. The miss to Juice? That might have been his worst throw on that play, but he's missed Kyle many other times when that play is ran. It's one thing that if the pass was garbage, and Juszczyk has to wait for the ball/gets tackled, but to airmail it like that with no completion? That is simply inexcusable.

It CAN make the job easier but that's only if the running game is working. Again, we only had 80 yards rushing and Vrabel is too smart of a coach to not flood the middle and do what NE always did...take away the team's #1 weapon. They are #2 in run defense and took away Kittle. That's what they do. That's just not a good matchup for our winning formula.

But overall, I agree with your premise.

As to Jimmy, totally agreed. He's as bipolar as it gets at times.

But this is where Kyle needs to read his own QB. If Bad Jimmy is rearing his ugly head (it showed early), get back to the quick slants, screens, check downs, running game, etc. until he's recalibrated. We all could see it but he can't?

Got to disagree on part of this. Play-action works whether or not the run is working.

https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/10/29/play-action-passing-is-the-best-play-in-football/

It can but Wilson only had 45 yards rushing and were weren't stretchimg them and I didn't see too many defenders biting too much. They seemed a bit more disciplined than some we've faced. They did seem fooled on the naked boots though.

That's probably because the rule number 1 of playing the 49ers is stay in your gaps.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I'm sick and tired of people talking about the other problems with this team other than Jimmy. Saying, well Jimmy isn't the only reason we lost. NO s**t! Every team has something wrong with them. Every single one. We could sit here all day and pick apart the Rams, Cardinals, Packers, Bucs, Chiefs…etc. They all have weaknesses.

The reason why these teams are actually contenders for the SB despite the weaknesses of their rosters is because of the Quarterbacks. That's it. It's that easy.

Stability at the QB position for this team as constructed is the difference between being 8-7 now and leading this division with 11 wins.

Jimmy G is what is holding this team back from being a contender. End of discussion.

So your contention is the 49ers have a Super Bowl caliber defense?

OK.

If they had a legitimate franchise QB, I say they do.

Despite our QB giving them short fields to defend, our defense is still only 2 spots behind the Bucs' defense in points (17 and 15 respectfully), and 4th in yards. The defense is not great. But it's good. And last night showed exactly what happens when your QB is garbage but you have a good defense: defense starts out utterly DOMINATING. Then they get gassed and demoralized from their QB handing a win to the opponent on a silver platter. And then they give up 20 points instead of the shutout they were on their way to pitching.

So yeah, we have a Super Bowl caliber defense. We just don't have a Super Bowl caliber quarterback.

EDIT — this is not to say that Jimmy IS garbage. He WAS garbage yesterday. But in general he's a mediocre QB. He's on Ryan Tannehill's level, incidentally.

Gotta disagree here. This falls into that "transcending QB" category for me. There's very few QB's that are going to transcend all the other real-world team issues we have right now and win a Superbowl. I just don't see it.

Way too many mental errors, lack of discipline, special teams, home issues, defense, pass protection when predictable, critical injuries at critical positions, etc.

But that's cool if you think we're just a slightly better QB away from winning a Superbowl. Obviously I hope you're right!

And I say we would have won this game if Colt McCoy was our QB yesterday. All you have to do to win with this team and scheme as a quarterback is pick up a few third and shorts and don't turn the ball over. When Jimmy does that, he gets crowned as elite here. When he doesn't, we lose. But around 20 other QBs could do what he does here, and probably 12 would make this team a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Here is a list of 12 QBs who would elevate this team to legitimate Super Bowl contender, as opposed to the possible playoff bound also-ran we look like now:

Rodgers
Mahomes
Herbert
Brady
Allen
Wilson
Prescott
Stafford (Yep, Stafford is better than Jimmy, we just faced him on one of his worst games of the year)
Carr (Yep, Carr is better than Jimmy, he just plays on a crappier team)
Murray (Yep, Murray is better than Jimmy, because he is more accurate, has a stronger arm, and has far more mobility; he bails out his college-level head coach)
Burrow (Yeah, definitely better, only homers disagree)
Wentz (Most of us thought he was done, but he's shown this year he's on his way to being one of the better QBs in the league)

Fortunately for us, I'm fairly confident within two years Trey is going to be on that list here.

I'm not so sure bud. Brady had a meltdown with a couple lost players to injuries. Mahomes was a high school QB to start the year with his OL trying to gel. Wilson?

No doubt those are better players and more accomplished but only 1 or 2 I see overcoming the grocery list of issues on games like last night. Again, when we lose, it's a collective fail each time. Quite consistent too.

Jimmy has never when on this team had the dearth of weapons Brady did vs the Saints (four of the top five weapons were out). And Mahomes' "high school" QBing was still putting up better production than Jimmy has this year (Up to before the Raiders game, when the criticism of him was at a head, he had thrown 20 touchdowns to 10 INTs — which is better than Jimmy's seasonal output before the Titans game: Mahomes WORST is better than Jimmy in arguably his best season).

Really I don't get it. It's like there's an incredible blind spot to how other QBs do on these forums.

You just highlighted my exact point. The excuses you just made for Brady and Mahomes HAS been this team's reality for the last 8 years. The two best stretches of Garoppolo's success has been when he has had the same receivers together for more than 3 games together...late 2019 and recently. That's not a coincidence. We're just numb to it. This isn't normal. And that's ONLY talking injuries. I'm not even talking about the other 5 things we collectively take a dumb together at in fails.

And those offenses you mention are systematically built AROUND the QB's there and their passing games based on their talent and experience. Apples to oranges to this offense. This is not a QB-centric offense and it won't be when Trey starts either so the only way to compare is by "efficiency" stats. Not raw volume stats.

That's been my point about here...having Mahomes like production expectations in a Kyle Shanahan offense in SF is the wrong perspective. I'd recommend comparing it more to Jim Harbaugh's offense here. Then you'd be calibrated properly. IMHO, of course.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That would make sense if this was a wide open spread offense but this isn't a QB-centric offense. Jimmy played like ass and we still could have won if the defense made one stop at the end and got the ball back, even after one first down.

That said, to your point, because it's not a QB-centric offense, every single pass counts...good or bad, there's going to be a massive spot light on it and the focus with remain on "efficiency" stats.

Our QB's just aren't going to be throwing 50 times a game here when it is built to run, play keep away with owning the TOP and dominate with the pass rush and DL.

That only enhances the fact. You're right, that this is a run-oriented offense, but given the success we have off of that, and using play action, it makes the job easier for the QB. He's not asked to go out and outright win games week after week, but he is asked to make plays when the opportunity arises. The second int was a Jimmy Special.....every second or third week. The miss to Juice? That might have been his worst throw on that play, but he's missed Kyle many other times when that play is ran. It's one thing that if the pass was garbage, and Juszczyk has to wait for the ball/gets tackled, but to airmail it like that with no completion? That is simply inexcusable.

It CAN make the job easier but that's only if the running game is working. Again, we only had 80 yards rushing and Vrabel is too smart of a coach to not flood the middle and do what NE always did...take away the team's #1 weapon. They are #2 in run defense and took away Kittle. That's what they do. That's just not a good matchup for our winning formula.

But overall, I agree with your premise.

As to Jimmy, totally agreed. He's as bipolar as it gets at times.

But this is where Kyle needs to read his own QB. If Bad Jimmy is rearing his ugly head (it showed early), get back to the quick slants, screens, check downs, running game, etc. until he's recalibrated. We all could see it but he can't?

Got to disagree on part of this. Play-action works whether or not the run is working.

https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/10/29/play-action-passing-is-the-best-play-in-football/

It can but Wilson only had 45 yards rushing and were weren't stretchimg them and I didn't see too many defenders biting too much. They seemed a bit more disciplined than some we've faced. They did seem fooled on the naked boots though.

That's probably because the rule number 1 of playing the 49ers is stay in your gaps.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I'm sick and tired of people talking about the other problems with this team other than Jimmy. Saying, well Jimmy isn't the only reason we lost. NO s**t! Every team has something wrong with them. Every single one. We could sit here all day and pick apart the Rams, Cardinals, Packers, Bucs, Chiefs…etc. They all have weaknesses.

The reason why these teams are actually contenders for the SB despite the weaknesses of their rosters is because of the Quarterbacks. That's it. It's that easy.

Stability at the QB position for this team as constructed is the difference between being 8-7 now and leading this division with 11 wins.

Jimmy G is what is holding this team back from being a contender. End of discussion.

So your contention is the 49ers have a Super Bowl caliber defense?

OK.

If they had a legitimate franchise QB, I say they do.

Despite our QB giving them short fields to defend, our defense is still only 2 spots behind the Bucs' defense in points (17 and 15 respectfully), and 4th in yards. The defense is not great. But it's good. And last night showed exactly what happens when your QB is garbage but you have a good defense: defense starts out utterly DOMINATING. Then they get gassed and demoralized from their QB handing a win to the opponent on a silver platter. And then they give up 20 points instead of the shutout they were on their way to pitching.

So yeah, we have a Super Bowl caliber defense. We just don't have a Super Bowl caliber quarterback.

EDIT — this is not to say that Jimmy IS garbage. He WAS garbage yesterday. But in general he's a mediocre QB. He's on Ryan Tannehill's level, incidentally.

Gotta disagree here. This falls into that "transcending QB" category for me. There's very few QB's that are going to transcend all the other real-world team issues we have right now and win a Superbowl. I just don't see it.

Way too many mental errors, lack of discipline, special teams, home issues, defense, pass protection when predictable, critical injuries at critical positions, etc.

But that's cool if you think we're just a slightly better QB away from winning a Superbowl. Obviously I hope you're right!

And I say we would have won this game if Colt McCoy was our QB yesterday. All you have to do to win with this team and scheme as a quarterback is pick up a few third and shorts and don't turn the ball over. When Jimmy does that, he gets crowned as elite here. When he doesn't, we lose. But around 20 other QBs could do what he does here, and probably 12 would make this team a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Here is a list of 12 QBs who would elevate this team to legitimate Super Bowl contender, as opposed to the possible playoff bound also-ran we look like now:

Rodgers
Mahomes
Herbert
Brady
Allen
Wilson
Prescott
Stafford (Yep, Stafford is better than Jimmy, we just faced him on one of his worst games of the year)
Carr (Yep, Carr is better than Jimmy, he just plays on a crappier team)
Murray (Yep, Murray is better than Jimmy, because he is more accurate, has a stronger arm, and has far more mobility; he bails out his college-level head coach)
Burrow (Yeah, definitely better, only homers disagree)
Wentz (Most of us thought he was done, but he's shown this year he's on his way to being one of the better QBs in the league)

Fortunately for us, I'm fairly confident within two years Trey is going to be on that list here.

I'm not so sure bud. Brady had a meltdown with a couple lost players to injuries. Mahomes was a high school QB to start the year with his OL trying to gel. Wilson?

No doubt those are better players and more accomplished but only 1 or 2 I see overcoming the grocery list of issues on games like last night. Again, when we lose, it's a collective fail each time. Quite consistent too.

Jimmy has never when on this team had the dearth of weapons Brady did vs the Saints (four of the top five weapons were out). And Mahomes' "high school" QBing was still putting up better production than Jimmy has this year (Up to before the Raiders game, when the criticism of him was at a head, he had thrown 20 touchdowns to 10 INTs — which is better than Jimmy's seasonal output before the Titans game: Mahomes WORST is better than Jimmy in arguably his best season).

Really I don't get it. It's like there's an incredible blind spot to how other QBs do on these forums.

You just highlighted my exact point. The excuses you just made for Brady and Mahomes HAS been this team's reality for the last 8 years.

(1) That doesn't apply to this discussion, because, when the team has been injured to high heaven, JIMMY was also injured!

(2) What excuse did I make for Mahomes? I just pointed out that his worst output of his career was better than Jimmy's best season.

The two best stretches of Garoppolo's success has been when he has had the same receivers together for more than 3 games together...late 2019 and recently. That's not a coincidence. We're just numb to it. This isn't normal. And that's ONLY talking injuries. I'm not even talking about the other 5 things we collectively take a dumb together at in fails.

That's still not the degree to which Brady had his entire starting skill players out save one person. It's a matter of degree, not kind.

And those offenses you mention are systematically built AROUND the QB's there and their passing games based on their talent and experience. Apples to oranges to this offense. This is not a QB-centric offense and it won't be when Trey starts either so the only way to compare is by "efficiency" stats. Not raw volume stats.

Not a "QB-centric" offense? Who was it that mentioned "themes of the week?" You got to be kidding me. The entire NFL calls this offense extremely QB friendly, if the QB can learn the complexities of the verbiage. How in the world is simply needing the QB to convert short third downs not QB-centric?

That's been my point about here...having Mahomes like production expectations in a Kyle Shanahan offense in SF is the wrong perspective. I'd recommend comparing it more to Jim Harbaugh's offense here. Then you'd be calibrated properly. IMHO, of course.

Do you just mean volume? The reason this passing offense has low volume is because if it had high volume Jimmy would consistently hand the game over to the other team. That's why it's so incredibly QB-friendly, where all the QB has to do is not throw inexplicable interceptions.