SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS at TENNESSEE TITANS - 2021 Game 15

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
(1) That doesn't apply to this discussion, because, when the team has been injured to high heaven, JIMMY was also injured!

(2) What excuse did I make for Mahomes? I just pointed out that his worst output of his career was better than Jimmy's best season.

That's still not the degree to which Brady had his entire starting skill players out save one person. It's a matter of degree, not kind.
Not a "QB-centric" offense? Who was it that mentioned "themes of the week?" You got to be kidding me. The entire NFL calls this offense extremely QB friendly, if the QB can learn the complexities of the verbiage. How in the world is simply needing the QB to convert short third downs not QB-centric?

Do you just mean volume? The reason this passing offense has low volume is because if it had high volume Jimmy would consistently hand the game over to the other team. That's why it's so incredibly QB-friendly, where all the QB has to do is not throw inexplicable interceptions.

1. 2019 we were the 6th least healthiest team. We currently are dead last of lost games with the projected starters. See...this is just normal for us. 32 players already on I.R. this year. 45 last year.

Yeah, but Jimmy hasn't been without four of his five top skill position players, which was what I was saying. And 2019 had a functional passing game, but it had an elite run offense and an elite defense, and that's why we did so well.

2. Again, that's because of the type of offense they run and and their philosophy with that QB. Those are QB-centric offenses. This is a RB-centric offense and it was constructed that way on purpose.

If that was true, why didn't Alex Smith even come close to Mahomes' production. Dude, Mahomes is going to wear a gold jacket. Mark my words on that. He's going to be a Hall of Famer, and THAT is the primary reason he has been so productive — even when he's playing "bad." (and bad for him is good for an average QB)

EDIT -- wait, I got it for you! Thanks to Marcellus Wiley, who said this: "Jimmy G is not great enough to not be good."

That's your difference, and what that means is, Patrick Mahomes can play poorly, but he's good enough to consistently pull himself out of the hole he dug. Jimmy isn't. So Jimmy has to always be on his P's and Q's, and if he's not, it's pretty much a guaranteed loss. That's why we're 7-0 when he throws no INTs and we're 1-6 when he does. He's just not great enough to not be good.

Like I said, this won't change when Trey steps in. You seem to think it'll change drastically to a QB-centric offense like Brady/Mahomes. Nope.

It probably will eventually, in a few years (when Trey fully understands NFL defenses). But what will change almost immediately is that the very same offense is going to work better, because the QB is going to stop throwing so many stupid picks, he will pick up first downs when everyone is covered, he will exploit the outside and down the field routes that are called every game but rarely thrown, and he will not airmail walk in touchdowns.

Apples and oranges in construct, philosophy and focus. This leads you and others to have very unrealistic expectations for the QB's here.

There is nothing unrealistic about expecting a QB to read the defense post-snap, to throw reasonably accurate when the ball travels 5 yards down the field, and to not throw inexplicable interceptions that give JT O'Sullivan a run for his money.

You said this offense isn't "QB-centric" because it has a low volume of pass plays. But it IS QB friendly, because the majority of the passes called are passes college and some high school QBs can execute.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:
1. 2019 we were the 6th least healthiest team. We currently are dead last of lost games with the projected starters. See...this is just normal for us. 32 players already on I.R. this year. 45 last year.

2. Again, that's because of the type of offense they run and and their philosophy with that QB. Those are QB-centric offenses. This is a RB-centric offense and it was constructed that way on purpose.

Like I said, this won't change when Trey steps in. You seem to think it'll change drastically to a QB-centric offense like Brady/Mahomes. Nope.

Apples and oranges in construct, philosophy and focus. This leads you and others to have very unrealistic expectations for the QB's here.

And Praag likes this just fine. We will continue to over-pay middle-tier FA hoping they "outperform" their contract, thinking that if we let go a real blue chip player, we can replace them with 3 middle-tiered guys vs just adding the top tier guy, vetting him out to ensure a solid, healthy player. The problem of late is that in a RB-centric offense that prizes middle-tier players (which is a poor man's philosophy run by Hoodie) is that you have to (1) develop well - so coaching and (2) draft well - neither of those the 49ers do reasonably good or consistently throughout the organization. Sure DL, RB and LB are pretty solid in player development but CB, OL, WR and QB are notoriously inconsistent with both drafted and FA additions.

Nah. What you need for that offense to work is a good game manager under center. We don't have that.

EDIT — to specify what I mean, go look at Kurt Warner's video of Jimmy vs the Vikings. We've got a guy with some high end talent on some throws (particularly over the middle), who can make splash plays, who is pretty good near the line of scrimmage, but who is not particularly good at reading the defense and doesn't have great field vision or accuracy. In other words, he is not a good game manager. He is something else.

To me, a good game manager possesses these qualities: The ability to see the field to avoid turnovers (Jimmy lacks this); accuracy on short passes (Jimmy has this); the ability to get the team in the right play at the line (Jimmy has this); someone who doesn't take unnecessary risks (Jimmy is not this); the ability to hit more than half of wide open plays down the field when there is no pressure (Jimmy lacks this), because a game manager can't only rely on converting short third downs, or else the run game and/or short passing game will be shut down, and third downs will all be long. An example of a good game manager is Kirk Cousins (yes, he threw an inexplicable pick against us, but that was an anomaly. He's only thrown 6 all year, to 29 touchdowns; and yes, he has weapons, but he's never as a full time starter had a 2:1 TD to INT ratio or worse, and three of the last four years he's had a greater than 3:1 TD to INT ratio).

So, to run this offense we need a good game manager. Based on his college tape, we drafted one, who can also make the splash plays with his legs. And what's an elite QB? An elite QB is a game manager who can also take over the game and put the team on his back. That's Trey's ceiling. But his floor (assuming he isn't a bust) is "good game manager," which is exactly what this offense as it is currently run needs. Except even if he doesn't become elite, he'll still have his legs. So, assuming he doesn't bust, his floor is good game manager+.

If you want to look at the positives we were on 3 days rest and it took a last second field goal by a 9-5 team to beat us despite Jimmy doing everything he can to give the game away. I had this game as a schedule loss when the season began. Them not having Henry is what gave us false hope that we could overcome the 3 days rest and travel. And we should have overcame it if it wasn't for Jimmy.

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If you want to look at the positives we were on 3 days rest and it took a last second field goal by a 9-5 team to beat us despite Jimmy doing everything he can to give the game away. I had this game as a schedule loss when the season began. Them not having Henry is what gave us false hope that we could overcome the 3 days rest and travel. And we should have overcame it if it wasn't for Jimmy.

yep, lets rest up, get angry, and take it out on houston

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
yep, lets rest up, get angry, and take it out on houston

This.

And then go from there.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
yep, lets rest up, get angry, and take it out on houston

This.

And then go from there.

Yes, we have to tame that Houston strange.

They need to cut a lot of dead wood this off season. Let JG go, cut Dee Ford, how is Benjamin still on the team? Upgrade the secondary so we don't have to rely on guys like Dontae Johnson. Jimmy G makes me sick and he can't leave fast enough!

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That's your difference, and what that means is, Patrick Mahomes can play poorly, but he's good enough to consistently pull himself out of the hole he dug. Jimmy isn't. So Jimmy has to always be on his P's and Q's, and if he's not, it's pretty much a guaranteed loss. That's why we're 7-0 when he throws no INTs and we're 1-6 when he does. He's just not great enough to not be good.

#TheEnd

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
In other words, he is not a good game manager. He is something else.

Haven't used this verbiage or thought about it that way, but have said the same since last night. We throw around the term "game manager" way too easily without really thinking about it.

I'd say Shanahan uses him as a programmable robot more than anything. And on a short week, I'd guess that Shanahan wasn't able to finish all the programming he wanted to do,..lol.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Wow AJ Brown out here abusing corners!! #noFlag #Titans #49ers @1kalwaysopen_ pic.twitter.com/joBwMcHXrK

— Fantasy Football Guru (@NickP877) December 24, 2021

what do we think about that

Yeah he had 2 blatant pass interference plays. One on the jump ball when it was offsides and this one, which eventually led to touchdowns on both drives. The referees have got to start calling some of these game changing plays.

Deebo saw the same thing and did the same thing to a few Titans after

We know good/bad Jimmy by now, can't do much this season other than vent. Lance is not playing this season. We just ride and see how far it goes, sadly.

On the other side, can we recuperate some $$$$$ from Warner and Armstead please.

This defense can rarely hold any team when it comes to crunch time. The defense gets paid too!

GAME is over.. can we just move on to the next one?

Originally posted by 9moon:
GAME is over.. can we just move on to the next one?

Unfortunately not for another 10 days. Losses on Thursday night are a drag.

Originally posted by 9moon:
GAME is over.. can we just move on to the next one?

can we use this same mentality with your kyle stuff

Originally posted by 9moon:
GAME is over.. can we just move on to the next one?

Is it Sunday yet?? I Seriously thought we played the texans Tommorow. Damn forgot we played this past thursday

Texans put a clinic on the chargers

goodbye playoffs