What will Jimmy's trade value be in the offseason?

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Why would anyone give up a second rounder? Personally i think draft picks are overvalued and I still would not do it for all the obvious reasons.

Originally posted by 9moon:
NOW, there are 2 of you that are both avoiding the question..

WILL YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

forget the imaginary teams that you both have in your mind... you've now seen how Grappy plays, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for him ?..

You need to chill. I straight up said I value Jimmy as a 3rd rounder, given his talent, experience, age, and injury history. If injuries weren't a concern, I'd trade a 2nd for him. The compensation is going to vary based on the market.

But why are you attacking the "imaginary teams we have in our mind" and asking if we'd trade a 2nd rounder for Jimmy. That in itself is an imaginary situation, as Jimmy is currently on our team and we gave up the farm to draft Trey Lance. But I'll entertain it:

Straight up, I would NOT trade a 2nd for him because of his injury history. If I was John Lynch/Kyle Shanahan, and we didn't have a starting QB, and I saw Jimmy on ANOTHER team having the career/tenure he had... I'd trade a 3rd for him.

Jimmy is a starting-level QB with limitations, he has clearly defined strengths and some clearly defined weaknesses. Jimmy excels at short throws and crossing routes, which work well with our offense because we have playmakers who can run after the catch. He can read defenses and find open WR's on third down. He's not Russell Wilson, but there are times when he can slide around the pocket to avoid the rush. On the other hand though, Jimmy's deep balls tend to flutter and receivers have to come back for it. And he can be fooled--- a number of his INT's are due to defenses disguising their coverages and anticipating routes, like when we played the Seahawks this year and Bobby Wagner picked off a crosser.... and sometimes he just flat out doesn't see defenders. Other times, he overestimates his abilities-- He tried to float a ball over a deep coverage linebacker against the Titans. That needs to be a perfect throw, and he ended up overthrowing it right to the safety.

But yeah... We can compete with Jimmy, if he's healthy. Nearly won a Super Bowl with him in 2019, and we're competing for a playoff spot this year despite not having a secondary and RB's in and out of the lineup. To me, that's worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder at QB. But understandably, we invested multiple 1st rounders to try and upgrade at QB.

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Why would anyone give up a second rounder? Personally i think draft picks are overvalued and I still would not do it for all the obvious reasons.

Well, according to SOME fanatics aqui, we just need two teams to be interested so that they can fight it out and start bidding picks after picks or offer us the higher picks (which is a 2nd rounder) and it will happen..

English also stated that we got two 2nd rounders for Akilex Smith instead of the 4th rounders most believed, and that can happen again..

So, I simply asked him and the other believers whether or not they themselves would give up a 2nd rounder?

They've yet to answer of course..

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Though to be honest... Isn't it Jimmy's best interest to just be cut?

He has a No Trade Clause. Say, Denver or Pittsburgh want him and we negotiate and agree to trade whatever compensation... couldn't Jimmy just say no, he gets cut, and Jimmy signs with Denver/Pittsburgh anyway and not have his new team give up draft compensation?

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Though to be honest... Isn't it Jimmy's best interest to just be cut?

He has a No Trade Clause. Say, Denver or Pittsburgh want him and we negotiate and agree to trade whatever compensation... couldn't Jimmy just say no, he gets cut, and Jimmy signs with Denver/Pittsburgh anyway and not have his new team give up draft compensation?

as far as I know, yes..

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Why would anyone give up a second rounder? Personally i think draft picks are overvalued and I still would not do it for all the obvious reasons.

Well, according to SOME fanatics aqui, we just need two teams to be interested so that they can fight it out and start bidding picks after picks or offer us the higher picks (which is a 2nd rounder) and it will happen..

English also stated that we got two 2nd rounders for Akilex Smith instead of the 4th rounders most believed, and that can happen again..

So, I simply asked him and the other believers whether or not they themselves would give up a 2nd rounder?

They've yet to answer of course..

Alex Smith trade has no relevance at all. All points are imaginery.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Though to be honest... Isn't it Jimmy's best interest to just be cut?

He has a No Trade Clause. Say, Denver or Pittsburgh want him and we negotiate and agree to trade whatever compensation... couldn't Jimmy just say no, he gets cut, and Jimmy signs with Denver/Pittsburgh anyway and not have his new team give up draft compensation?

No bc he loses the leverage of his current salary. No team will pay him his current salary most likely, but he could get a lot closer(with a team he wants to go to) to that by renegotiating his contract as opposed to starting from scratch. It will need to be a joint effort on the part of the Niners, Jimmy, and whatever team he wants to go to. Hopefully that works out for all involved.

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Why would anyone give up a second rounder? Personally i think draft picks are overvalued and I still would not do it for all the obvious reasons.

Well, according to SOME fanatics aqui, we just need two teams to be interested so that they can fight it out and start bidding picks after picks or offer us the higher picks (which is a 2nd rounder) and it will happen..

English also stated that we got two 2nd rounders for Akilex Smith instead of the 4th rounders most believed, and that can happen again..

So, I simply asked him and the other believers whether or not they themselves would give up a 2nd rounder?

They've yet to answer of course..

Alex Smith trade has no relevance at all. All points are imaginery.

That's why I didn't see English's point in regards to Smith..

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Why would anyone give up a second rounder? Personally i think draft picks are overvalued and I still would not do it for all the obvious reasons.

Well, according to SOME fanatics aqui, we just need two teams to be interested so that they can fight it out and start bidding picks after picks or offer us the higher picks (which is a 2nd rounder) and it will happen..

English also stated that we got two 2nd rounders for Akilex Smith instead of the 4th rounders most believed, and that can happen again..

So, I simply asked him and the other believers whether or not they themselves would give up a 2nd rounder?

They've yet to answer of course..

Alex Smith trade has no relevance at all. All points are imaginery.

That's why I didn't see English's point in regards to Smith..

Not perfectly relevant, but there's some similarities. I imagine NFL teams do look at trades within the last 10 years to get a baseline for their negotiations... From then on, it's based on their grade of the player, coupled with the market and the situation.

Some similarity in the situations:
- 2013 Alex Smith was a veteran QB that the team had success with in 2011 and 2012 (until Kaep took the starting role)
- Similar production... Different players and styles, mind you, but both mid-level starting QB's, that were supported by strong running games and defenses
- Both are well-liked by their locker rooms and lead through their time on the practice field.

Overall, I think 2011-2017 Alex Smith is a better QB than Jimmy, but not a huge amount. Alex is possibly my favorite player of all time, but admittedly he too is a QB with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. I'd say both fluctuate between being in the best 11-20th QB's in a year.

I'm actually surprised Alex merited two 2nd rounders, but I guess it can make sense. I mean, the Panthers traded a current year 6th and a future 2nd and 4th for Sam Darnold. Entirely different situation, as Sam Darnold at the time was a third year QB who the new regime moved on from.

But all in all, I think these two trades do show that QB is a premium position, so I wouldn't be surprised if we got a 3rd for Jimmy... If there are some teams interested, maybe some teams sweeten the deal with a couple extra low-round picks.

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 9moon:
the only one who's not getting the point is U... and just because we got two 2nds for Akilex Smith does not mean we'll get the same for Grappy..

You urself can't even answer the simple question of... Will you give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy??

Oh the irony....like have you ever actually read your own trade proposals using the same logic you are using now?

uhmmm, as far as I remember, my trade proposals are more realistic... I did say that we'll need to give up the ranch if we wanted Zack Wilson.. meaning to move up from 12 to the 2nd or 3rd...

it may have been YOU who believed that we can give exchange 1st and throw in a bunch of late round picks in order to move up that far...

PLUS, my logic has been more realistic...

oh by the way, will YOU give up a 2nd rounder for Grappy ??

maybe before this season started, Washington may have pulled the trigger.. but NOT NO MO !!! NOT NO MO !!

Why would anyone give up a second rounder? Personally i think draft picks are overvalued and I still would not do it for all the obvious reasons.

Well, according to SOME fanatics aqui, we just need two teams to be interested so that they can fight it out and start bidding picks after picks or offer us the higher picks (which is a 2nd rounder) and it will happen..

English also stated that we got two 2nd rounders for Akilex Smith instead of the 4th rounders most believed, and that can happen again..

So, I simply asked him and the other believers whether or not they themselves would give up a 2nd rounder?

They've yet to answer of course..

Alex Smith trade has no relevance at all. All points are imaginery.

That's why I didn't see English's point in regards to Smith..

Not perfectly relevant, but there's some similarities. I imagine NFL teams do look at trades within the last 10 years to get a baseline for their negotiations... From then on, it's based on their grade of the player, coupled with the market and the situation.

Some similarity in the situations:
- 2013 Alex Smith was a veteran QB that the team had success with in 2011 and 2012 (until Kaep took the starting role)
- Similar production... Different players and styles, mind you, but both mid-level starting QB's, that were supported by strong running games and defenses
- Both are well-liked by their locker rooms and lead through their time on the practice field.

Overall, I think 2011-2017 Alex Smith is a better QB than Jimmy, but not a huge amount. Alex is possibly my favorite player of all time, but admittedly he too is a QB with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. I'd say both fluctuate between being in the best 11-20th QB's in a year.

I'm actually surprised Alex merited two 2nd rounders, but I guess it illustrates that QB is a premium position.

IT's safe to say that Alex was having a very good year the time he got hurt, so his stock was UP.. so we were lucky enough to get those two 2nd rounders..

... would you say the same w/Grappy?? is his stock UP after last game and if Lance were to take over from here on ?

I don't think so..

First we gotta have a market so
- we need the big 3 (watson wilson and rodgers) to stay where they are (best case scenario)
- then the rookie class must be perceived as weak by most scout teams
- teams must be QB needy and have some talent around the position not to waste JG potential value as a game manager
- finally they gotta be able to swallow his one year contract or be able to negotiate with him prior to the deal with niners (Lynch will make that happen) on a multiyear average money with playing incentives and playoffs appearances

so it comes down to (in my best guess order) :
- steelers
- giants
- panthers
does three dont have their starting nor replacement QB on the team right now

- (browns) if they let mayfield go
- (broncos) if they think he is an upgrade to an already cheap bridgewater
- (redskins) i dont think they value JG to be a decisive upgrade with their actual QB room
- (packers) if rodgers leaves i dont know how they value Love and if they're ready to go big on wilson or watson. I think he's not ready but maybe they will try a year with him and upgrade the team even more around him

So the price could be very different especially if one of those playoffs caliber team are without a true n°1 QB
we could certainly get at least a #2 becoming a #1 (if playing time escalator met) from most of those teams and maybe more if the big 3 arent available on the market

dont value them as options :
- texans : i think they would want to maximize their draft option and they are believing in Mills more and more with every game he plays
- seachickens : first i think russell will stay, second niners will trade JG for cheap if it can avoid to release him and wilson has been already traded. They dont wanna see him go to seattle a division and hatred rival.

Originally posted by 9moon:
IT's safe to say that Alex was having a very good year the time he got hurt, so his stock was UP.. so we were lucky enough to get those two 2nd rounders..

... would you say the same w/Grappy?? is his stock UP after last game and if Lance were to take over from here on ?

I don't think so..

I would agree with that. I felt that before the season, if Jimmy played better than his 2019 season, we could maybe even get a 1st round pick for him. Before the Titans game and his injury, I felt very good we could get a 2nd for him. But then he had a very ugly game and got injured, so that's the last thing people are going to remember.

I'll say though that, to me, he overall has a good body of work and then has some ugly plays/games. Player evaluators know full well what Jimmy can and can't do. And overall, he's played well this season... and then... injuries and the Titans game.

To be honest though I think, it's not so much a question of his skill level... but his health. I think most people can agree he's not a top 10 QB, but he's an effective starter worthy of a mid-round pick. If I was a GM that had a good team but needed a QB to push us into playoff contention, I'd certainly trade for Jimmy... but only if he's healthy.