What will Jimmy's trade value be in the offseason?

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
People saying denver ?

Well lets see Denver has an injury-prone game manager qb. 29 years old
his stats for the season: 285 for 426 18tds 7 ints, 100 rush yards in 14 games

what does he make in salary ? 4 million dollars

Jimmys salary is 27 million. 30 years old

his stats for the season: 278 for 409 19tds 10 ints 50 rush yards in 14 games

I know it might be difficult, but please look at these numbers and tell me why would Denver trade for Jimmy, and please don't use team stat like Wins

Maybe Jimmy converts 3rd downs better ?

Let see here

21San Francisco38.38%
23Denver37.31%

No, that isn't it either

Maybe Jimmys career numbers are much better ?
Teddy 65.3% 14k yards 71td/43 ints in 73 games
Jimmy 67.6% 11k yards 70td/36 ints in 62 games

insert *they're the same picture* meme

Comparing the two this season:

Teddy has a worse record
Lower completion percentage
Lower TD percentage
Fewer first downs
Less yards / attempt
Lower rating
Lower QBR
Worse sack percentage

This season Denver is averaging 19 ppg. SF with JG is more around 27 ppg.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
All Rex Grossman does is win though

Right. Speaking of Alex Smith, he has the same career win % as Drew Brees. Clearly he should also be a no-brainer first ballot HoF.

Also, Alex Smith 14 TDs 2 INTs in 7 games in playoffs. But he never "took anyone to a superbowl" but Jimmy did because aLl hE dOEs iS WIN. Stats be overrated.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Comparing the two this season:

Teddy has a worse record
Lower completion percentage
Lower TD percentage
Fewer first downs
Less yards / attempt
Lower rating
Lower QBR
Worse sack percentage

This season Denver is averaging 19 ppg. SF with JG is more around 27 ppg.

Are you saying worse record just to have a laugh ? The whole point is that wins are a team stat
Completion percentage and td % differences are negligible, teddy has lower int%. qb rating 94 and 99- youre splitting hairs.

About the only thing Jimmy really has on him is yards per attempt and its partly because 49ers have the best YAC guys in the league. That is with 4 offensive pro-bowlers including an all-world LT, all-pro TE who literally carries dudes on him and a dynamic guy who also carries dudes on him.

I'm sure that is totally worth the difference of what, 23 million or so ?

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Comparing the two this season:

Teddy has a worse record
Lower completion percentage
Lower TD percentage
Fewer first downs
Less yards / attempt
Lower rating
Lower QBR
Worse sack percentage

This season Denver is averaging 19 ppg. SF with JG is more around 27 ppg.

Are you saying worse record just to have a laugh ? The whole point is that wins are a team stat
Completion percentage and td % differences are negligible, teddy has lower int%. qb rating 94 and 99- youre splitting hairs.

About the only thing Jimmy really has on him is yards per attempt and its partly because 49ers have the best YAC guys in the league. That is with 4 offensive pro-bowlers including an all-world LT, all-pro TE who literally carries dudes on him and a dynamic guy who also carries dudes on him.

I'm sure that is totally worth the difference of what, 23 million or so ?

Why do you think JG is paid what he is and Teddy paid what he is? The reality is the people hired by clubs to run teams and build rosters have put a way higher value on JG than anyone has put on Teddy B.

Another point you ignored the ppg numbers. 27 ppg, you can win with that. Are you aware the 49ers ppg without JG? 19 ppg you cannot win with that. Do you think Brady or Rodgers would have 19 ppg in Denver? Or would they be more like 30 ppg and winning?

But, carry on.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Comparing the two this season:

Teddy has a worse record
Lower completion percentage
Lower TD percentage
Fewer first downs
Less yards / attempt
Lower rating
Lower QBR
Worse sack percentage

This season Denver is averaging 19 ppg. SF with JG is more around 27 ppg.

Are you saying worse record just to have a laugh ? The whole point is that wins are a team stat
Completion percentage and td % differences are negligible, teddy has lower int%. qb rating 94 and 99- youre splitting hairs.

About the only thing Jimmy really has on him is yards per attempt and its partly because 49ers have the best YAC guys in the league. That is with 4 offensive pro-bowlers including an all-world LT, all-pro TE who literally carries dudes on him and a dynamic guy who also carries dudes on him.

I'm sure that is totally worth the difference of what, 23 million or so ?

Why do you think JG is paid what he is and Teddy paid what he is? The reality is the people hired by clubs to run teams and build rosters have put a way higher value on JG than anyone has put on Teddy B.

Another point you ignored the ppg numbers. 27 ppg, you can win with that. Are you aware the 49ers ppg without JG? 19 ppg you cannot win with that. Do you think Brady or Rodgers would have 19 ppg in Denver? Or would they be more like 30 ppg and winning?

But, carry on.

I'm confused… Indy has more PPG than Green Bay this season… Does that mean Carson Wentz > Aaron Rodgers?

Also, Jimmy G is making more money than Tom Brady. Does that mean Jimmy G > Brady?

Please explain…

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Why do you think JG is paid what he is and Teddy paid what he is? The reality is the people hired by clubs to run teams and build rosters have put a way higher value on JG than anyone has put on Teddy B.

Another point you ignored the ppg numbers. 27 ppg, you can win with that. Are you aware the 49ers ppg without JG? 19 ppg you cannot win with that. Do you think Brady or Rodgers would have 19 ppg in Denver? Or would they be more like 30 ppg and winning?

But, carry on.

I mean, this couldnt POSSIBLY be because Teddy had 1 healthy season in his previous 3 before signing with the Broncos could it? If Jimmy was a free agent prior to this season, there is no way a team would have locked him up with a $27M/yr contract coming off of a similar 1 healthy year out of the last 3.

For the record, I think Jimmy is a bit better than Teddy. But as always, there is substantially more that goes into everything than simply who is better.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'm confused… Indy has more PPG than Green Bay this season… Does that mean Carson Wentz > Aaron Rodgers?

Also, Jimmy G is making more money than Tom Brady. Does that mean Jimmy G > Brady?

Please explain…

There are exceptions to every rule, right? That's why taking one example of the exception to the rule and throwing it out there to challenge the rule itself is silly. Reality is I've cited 8 different player statistics (two of which are aggregate stats that look at the entire body of work), I've cited record, I've cited pay, I've cited PPG, it all points to someone unbiased as saying JG is better than Teddy B. He's out in front of Teddy B in not one, but all of these metrics. I get that some people are 49er fans and they don't like JG despite his wearing our colors but as I said, carry on.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'm confused… Indy has more PPG than Green Bay this season… Does that mean Carson Wentz > Aaron Rodgers?

Also, Jimmy G is making more money than Tom Brady. Does that mean Jimmy G > Brady?

Please explain…

There are exceptions to every rule, right? That's why taking one example of the exception to the rule and throwing it out there to challenge the rule itself is silly. Reality is I've cited 8 different player statistics (two of which are aggregate stats that look at the entire body of work), I've cited record, I've cited pay, I've cited PPG, it all points to someone unbiased as saying JG is better than Teddy B. He's out in front of Teddy B in not one, but all of these metrics. I get that some people are 49er fans and they don't like JG despite his wearing our colors but as I said, carry on.

*sigh*

What are these rules then?

Anyone who has a better W/L record or a higher PPG = better QB? That's complete nonsense.

Obviously my posts have been extremely sarcastic because it's ridiculous to use team stats to judge QBs.

Everyone knows there's so many factors that goes into wins and losses and PPG. Things like coaching, the run game, and defense… all things Jimmy has benefited from greatly.

If you want to use team stats as part of the equation then sure… I'm all for it. But you and others continue to ignore all context on why those team stats are what they are as compared to someone like Heinicke. You don't think Heinicke would have better numbers under Shanahan? Give me a break.

But like I said… the question isn't if Jimmy G is better than those players. The question is HOW MUCH BETTER?

Considering his 20m+ Cap hit than other FA QBs, his current injury/injury history, and the trade compensation needed to acquire him….we're not comparing apples to apples here.

If Jimmy was a free agent there would be nothing to argue about because IMO he would be the top QB available by a decent margin. But he's not a FA so we're asking ourselves why would a team pay 20m more for him instead of other QBs with comparable stats who played in worse offenses?

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'm confused… Indy has more PPG than Green Bay this season… Does that mean Carson Wentz > Aaron Rodgers?

Also, Jimmy G is making more money than Tom Brady. Does that mean Jimmy G > Brady?

Please explain…

There are exceptions to every rule, right? That's why taking one example of the exception to the rule and throwing it out there to challenge the rule itself is silly. Reality is I've cited 8 different player statistics (two of which are aggregate stats that look at the entire body of work), I've cited record, I've cited pay, I've cited PPG, it all points to someone unbiased as saying JG is better than Teddy B. He's out in front of Teddy B in not one, but all of these metrics. I get that some people are 49er fans and they don't like JG despite his wearing our colors but as I said, carry on.

*sigh*

What are these rules then?

Anyone who has a better W/L record or a higher PPG = better QB? That's complete nonsense.

Obviously my posts have been extremely sarcastic because it's ridiculous to use team stats to judge QBs.

Everyone knows there's so many factors that goes into wins and losses and PPG. Things like coaching, the run game, and defense… all things Jimmy has benefited from greatly.

If you want to use team stats as part of the equation then sure… I'm all for it. But you and others continue to ignore all context on why those team stats are what they are as compared to someone like Heinicke. You don't think Heinicke would have better numbers under Shanahan? Give me a break.

But like I said… the question isn't if Jimmy G is better than those players. The question is HOW MUCH BETTER?

Considering his 20m+ Cap hit than other FA QBs, his current injury/injury history, and the trade compensation needed to acquire him….we're not comparing apples to apples here.

If Jimmy was a free agent there would be nothing to argue about because IMO he would be the top QB available by a decent margin. But he's not a FA so we're asking ourselves why would a team pay 20m more for him instead of other QBs with comparable stats who played in worse offenses?

Well to be fair it wasn't as you say "team stats" I used 8 individual stats including 2 that are as mentioned aggregate stats, looking at an entire body of work. Agree to disagree on this one. Would be pretty boring on here if everyone agreed with everyone so thanks for keeping it interesting.

No need to really debate it back and forth we will have the answer soon enough. During the offseason we'll find out the market for JG and these other QBs who's names I've seen mentioned such as Heinicke, Teddy B, Dalton, Tyrod, Darnold, Minshew, Winston etc.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I'm confused… Indy has more PPG than Green Bay this season… Does that mean Carson Wentz > Aaron Rodgers?

Also, Jimmy G is making more money than Tom Brady. Does that mean Jimmy G > Brady?

Please explain…

There are exceptions to every rule, right? That's why taking one example of the exception to the rule and throwing it out there to challenge the rule itself is silly. Reality is I've cited 8 different player statistics (two of which are aggregate stats that look at the entire body of work), I've cited record, I've cited pay, I've cited PPG, it all points to someone unbiased as saying JG is better than Teddy B. He's out in front of Teddy B in not one, but all of these metrics. I get that some people are 49er fans and they don't like JG despite his wearing our colors but as I said, carry on.

*sigh*

What are these rules then?

Anyone who has a better W/L record or a higher PPG = better QB? That's complete nonsense.

Obviously my posts have been extremely sarcastic because it's ridiculous to use team stats to judge QBs.

Everyone knows there's so many factors that goes into wins and losses and PPG. Things like coaching, the run game, and defense… all things Jimmy has benefited from greatly.

If you want to use team stats as part of the equation then sure… I'm all for it. But you and others continue to ignore all context on why those team stats are what they are as compared to someone like Heinicke. You don't think Heinicke would have better numbers under Shanahan? Give me a break.

But like I said… the question isn't if Jimmy G is better than those players. The question is HOW MUCH BETTER?

Considering his 20m+ Cap hit than other FA QBs, his current injury/injury history, and the trade compensation needed to acquire him….we're not comparing apples to apples here.

If Jimmy was a free agent there would be nothing to argue about because IMO he would be the top QB available by a decent margin. But he's not a FA so we're asking ourselves why would a team pay 20m more for him instead of other QBs with comparable stats who played in worse offenses?

Well to be fair it wasn't as you say "team stats" I used 8 individual stats including 2 that are as mentioned aggregate stats, looking at an entire body of work. Agree to disagree on this one. Would be pretty boring on here if everyone agreed with everyone so thanks for keeping it interesting.

No need to really debate it back and forth we will have the answer soon enough. During the offseason we'll find out the market for JG and these other QBs who's names I've seen mentioned such as Heinicke, Teddy B, Dalton, Tyrod, Darnold, Minshew, Winston etc.

I was more talking about my comparison of Heinicke and Jimmy. Your rebuttal to me was essentially… "look at Jimmy's W/L record"

Thats all I'm saying. I don't see that as a convincing argument unless Jimmy had a great record and played for the Jets for example. Now that would be something significant to me.

I think Jimmy would make a lot of locker rooms better. He's been one of the best teammates of any 49ers player that I can remember.

That will matter to someone but if I was a GM I would wait for him to become a FA if the asking price was what some here are expecting like a 1st-2nd rounder.

In that scenario I'd much rather develop Heinicke or take a cheaper Bridgewater or Winston.

As you said… we will see.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Thats all I'm saying. I don't see that as a convincing argument unless Jimmy had a great record and played for the Jets for example. Now that would be something significant to me.

Ah, so if JG joined a crap team with a losing history and had a great record it would mean something to you. What if I told you this already happened? He joined a team that was 2-24. I repeat, he joined a club that won 2 and lost 24 of its last 26 games

He immediately turned it around.

Thanks for helping me on this one.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Thats all I'm saying. I don't see that as a convincing argument unless Jimmy had a great record and played for the Jets for example. Now that would be something significant to me.

Ah, so if JG joined a crap franchise with a losing history and had a great record it would mean something to you. What if I told you this already happened? He joined a team that was 2-24. I repeat, he joined a club that won 2 and lost 24 of its last 26 games

He immediately turned it around.

Thanks for helping me on this one.

Is Shanahan not one of the best play callers in football? Did we not have a top 2 rushing attack in 2019? A top 5 defense? An all world weapon in Kittle?

I know you're being cute but that's what I mean.

If he had a winning record while his team was terrible running the ball or had an awful defense… then you'd have something.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Thats all I'm saying. I don't see that as a convincing argument unless Jimmy had a great record and played for the Jets for example. Now that would be something significant to me.

Ah, so if JG joined a crap franchise with a losing history and had a great record it would mean something to you. What if I told you this already happened? He joined a team that was 2-24. I repeat, he joined a club that won 2 and lost 24 of its last 26 games

He immediately turned it around.

Thanks for helping me on this one.

Is Shanahan not one of the best play callers in football? Did we not have a top 2 rushing attack in 2019? A top 5 defense? An all world weapon in Kittle?

I know you're being cute but that's what I mean.

If he had a winning record while his team was terrible running the ball or had an awful defense… then you'd have something.

You'll have to explain how with KS we are 1-10 in 2017 pre JG and 5-0 after. I'll wait. He did exactly what by your own words you say would be "significant". He joined a sad sack club and rattled off W after W.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You'll have to explain how with KS we are 1-10 in 2017 pre JG and 5-0 after. I'll wait. He did exactly what by your own words you say would be "significant". He joined a sad sack club and rattled off W after W.

This has been explained ad nauseam, but you choose to ignore it. You can wait forever if you are just going to ignore when people explain it.