What will Jimmy's trade value be in the offseason?

Saints gonna trade Taysom and something for Wilson.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
The way I understand it is I got JG in the offseason sweepstakes, SWH is going with Winston and Waterbear is going with Heinicke. Place your bets

edit: I'll put The Dynasty down for Bridgewater

Here's the problem right here.

We either all agree that JG is better than these guys in which case I have no idea why you both are arguing with me every step of the way. Or we don't agree. I've seen both you prop up the guys mentioned above. Time to put up or kindly be quiet plz.

You either have incredibly poor reading comprehension skills or you are being intentionally dense just to argue.

Waterbear and I have both said many, many times that there is SO much more that goes into making a trade for a QB than just "is QB ___ better than our current QB." You can search this and any other thread as much as you want and you wont find a single post by either of us that says Winston/Heinicke are better QBs than Jimmy is. You conveniently ignore and/or dont understand everything else that we have been trying to explain to you over and over. And no, you havent seen either of us "prop up" those two QBs. Thats complete nonsense.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
You either have incredibly poor reading comprehension skills or you are being intentionally dense just to argue.

Waterbear and I have both said many, many times that there is SO much more that goes into making a trade for a QB than just "is QB ___ better than our current QB." You can search this and any other thread as much as you want and you wont find a single post by either of us that says Winston/Heinicke are better QBs than Jimmy is. You conveniently ignore and/or dont understand everything else that we have been trying to explain to you over and over. And no, you havent seen either of us "prop up" those two QBs. Thats complete nonsense.

Winston had a 14-3 TD/INT ratio before his injury which is much better than Jimmy

Okay lol. I find it hilarious that my entire point is JG is better than these guys. And yet I saw many pages of stats from Winston, Bridgewater stats, Heinicke stats, saying that all these guys are better or as good as JG. And when it comes time to put up everyone just kinda admits yup JG is better than all these guys. Next time if someone posts something you agree with just say good post man and one of these

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Winston had a 14-3 TD/INT ratio before his injury which is much better than Jimmy

Okay lol. I find it hilarious that my entire point is JG is better than these guys. And yet I saw many pages of stats from Winston, Bridgewater stats, Heinicke stats, saying that all these guys are better or as good as JG. And when it comes time to put up everyone just kinda admits yup JG is better than all these guys. Next time if someone posts something you agree with just say good post man and one of these

Again, you aren't understanding what you are reading. It's really that simple. Neither Waterbear nor myself has ever once said that Heinicke or Winston are "as good or better" than Jimmy. You even demonstrated that you arent understanding what you are reading by posting that quote about Winston above. Whoever wrote that quote doesn't say Winston is better than Jimmy. That's just your poor understanding of that sentence.

When it comes time to "put up" the two of us just echo what we have been saying this entire time (that you arent comprehending), that JG is better than those two. That isn't something we are just now saying because we don't want to "put up." Jimmy is better. How much better is the debate. Are the teams willing to give up picks for the aforementioned improvement? And are the teams alsp willing to bump their QB salary 20+M for the aforementioned improvement? You keep wanting to make it about 1 vs. 1, yet that's not something that either WB or I have ever argued.

Please attempt to understand what you are reading before replying again. Thanks.

People keep throwing Jimmy's contract like it is not worth picking up. I do not understand this. He is being paid like 12th for qbs. The franchise tag this year, which will go up next year, is like the same amount.

Any starting level QB is going to be 25 million +. Hell Jimmy's contract may look like a bargain to qb needy teams.

Does he contract suck for the niners yes. Does it suck for a team with no qb worth mentioning, no it is right where it should be.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Saints gonna trade Taysom and something for Wilson.

… and cut the rest of their expensive roster?

Originally posted by spraked:
People keep throwing Jimmy's contract like it is not worth picking up. I do not understand this. He is being paid like 12th for qbs. The franchise tag this year, which will go up next year, is like the same amount.

Any starting level QB is going to be 25 million +. Hell Jimmy's contract may look like a bargain to qb needy teams.

Does he contract suck for the niners yes. Does it suck for a team with no qb worth mentioning, no it is right where it should be.

I think people recognize JG has been our QB and they enjoy the back and forth point counterpoint style arguments so if you say this there will be a whole lot of ppl countering with "well what you don't realize is "

Even tho what you are saying is entirely correct great post man

If he plays vs the Rams and gets the win in such an important game while playing somewhat decent while not being 100%, That might raise his stock. But then if he plays lousy in the wildcard game and Niners lose because of him, his value will come back down.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Why do you think JG is paid what he is and Teddy paid what he is? The reality is the people hired by clubs to run teams and build rosters have put a way higher value on JG than anyone has put on Teddy B.

Another point you ignored the ppg numbers. 27 ppg, you can win with that. Are you aware the 49ers ppg without JG? 19 ppg you cannot win with that. Do you think Brady or Rodgers would have 19 ppg in Denver? Or would they be more like 30 ppg and winning?

But, carry on.

This is simply a dishonest point. Instead of analyzing football context, you go and analyze whos paid what. Newsflash bro, teams in sports often make bad decisions. All those GMs, people hired by clubs sometimes make really, really stupid decisions.

The Mets are paying Bobby Bonilla. Like others said, Tom Brady was always paid less. A certain team is actually on the record saying CJ Beathard was the best QB in the same draft that had Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. Do you know which team that was ?

Niners were desperate for even average QB starter level play after CJ Beathard Hoyer and Mullens. They overpaid JG after 5 games and I personally wasn't a fan of such a large contract for an unproven guy. We got average level QB starter play out of Jimmy. The cat's out of the bag on his tendencies, hes oft injured is 30 so his ceiling is capped and he is what he is. He was an unknown when that contract was signed. No one is going to give him this kind of money now AND giving up a draft pick.

PPG is a factor of entire offense. But who did the Niners trot out besides JG out there and where are they now ? Brian Hoyer is a career backup. CJ Beathard is basically clipboard holding in Jacksonville. Nick Mullens was third string QB in cleveland behind Baker and Keenum. All those guys arent NFL starters. Jimmy is at least an NFL starter.
Now back to Denver. Their run game is hovering around 17th in the league. The Niners have one of the best run games in the league. They also have one of the best playcallers in the league. Is Teddy B better than Jimmy ? No. Are they significantly different ? No. Teddy is more conservative but also more risk averse. Neither can push the ball downfield. Teddy is a bit more mobile, a tiny bit.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Winston had a 14-3 TD/INT ratio before his injury which is much better than Jimmy

Okay lol. I find it hilarious that my entire point is JG is better than these guys. And yet I saw many pages of stats from Winston, Bridgewater stats, Heinicke stats, saying that all these guys are better or as good as JG. And when it comes time to put up everyone just kinda admits yup JG is better than all these guys. Next time if someone posts something you agree with just say good post man and one of these

Teddy is the same guy as Jimmy G. I wouldnt give up a draft pick and have to pay a QB of Jimmy/Teddys caliber 27 million if Im a GM

Winston is definitely in play. His ceiling isnt capped yet, and while hes an absolute boneheaded turnover waiting to happen, he has arm talent to actually throw the ball downfield. He's perfect for a reclamation project just like Sean Payton had envisioned for this year. The potential for Winston improving will have teams curious and for him I can see teams giving up a draft pick. Considering how little he was paid, his contract is actually a bargain so Winston is a great value target in a trade...but I'm pretty sure Saints arent trading him.

Maybe a 5th, dudes problem is he always hurt , like 33 % of the time, don't see much interest

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Maybe a 5th, dudes problem is he always hurt , like 33 % of the time, don't see much interest

I know this is your opinion, but why do you not realize what starting NFL QBs are worth?

A low-end starting LB might be worth a 5th.

A starting QB, who has played in a Super Bowl and has a high win percentage is worth much more. Regardless of salary or "injury history".

I'm saying a 2nd that could become a 1st and a 4th.

Originally posted by Blake_Fever:

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Maybe a 5th, dudes problem is he always hurt , like 33 % of the time, don't see much interest

I know this is your opinion, but why do you not realize what starting NFL QBs are worth?

A low-end starting LB might be worth a 5th.

A starting QB, who has played in a Super Bowl and has a high win percentage is worth much more. Regardless of salary or "injury history".

I'm saying a 2nd that could become a 1st and a 4th.

The best analogy is Sam Bradford, but the consensus is that MIN overpaid. So I don't know what the market will be, but the Niners couldn't have asked for a better situation (no consensus top QBs, minimal FA market after huge names like Watson, Rodgers, and Wilson). About 10 teams need new QBs in the draft, and only 3 teams will be able to get those aforementioned guys.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Why do you think JG is paid what he is and Teddy paid what he is? The reality is the people hired by clubs to run teams and build rosters have put a way higher value on JG than anyone has put on Teddy B.

Another point you ignored the ppg numbers. 27 ppg, you can win with that. Are you aware the 49ers ppg without JG? 19 ppg you cannot win with that. Do you think Brady or Rodgers would have 19 ppg in Denver? Or would they be more like 30 ppg and winning?

But, carry on.

This is simply a dishonest point. Instead of analyzing football context, you go and analyze whos paid what. Newsflash bro, teams in sports often make bad decisions. All those GMs, people hired by clubs sometimes make really, really stupid decisions.

The Mets are paying Bobby Bonilla. Like others said, Tom Brady was always paid less. A certain team is actually on the record saying CJ Beathard was the best QB in the same draft that had Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. Do you know which team that was ?

Niners were desperate for even average QB starter level play after CJ Beathard Hoyer and Mullens. They overpaid JG after 5 games and I personally wasn't a fan of such a large contract for an unproven guy. We got average level QB starter play out of Jimmy. The cat's out of the bag on his tendencies, hes oft injured is 30 so his ceiling is capped and he is what he is. He was an unknown when that contract was signed. No one is going to give him this kind of money now AND giving up a draft pick.

PPG is a factor of entire offense. But who did the Niners trot out besides JG out there and where are they now ? Brian Hoyer is a career backup. CJ Beathard is basically clipboard holding in Jacksonville. Nick Mullens was third string QB in cleveland behind Baker and Keenum. All those guys arent NFL starters. Jimmy is at least an NFL starter.
Now back to Denver. Their run game is hovering around 17th in the league. The Niners have one of the best run games in the league. They also have one of the best playcallers in the league. Is Teddy B better than Jimmy ? No. Are they significantly different ? No. Teddy is more conservative but also more risk averse. Neither can push the ball downfield. Teddy is a bit more mobile, a tiny bit.

One thing odd is yourself, Waterbear and SWH all admit JG is better but in the case of Waterbear and SWH they are arguing that teams should go after lesser QBs because they are more affordable. This is just such bad strategy. Look at ourselves the 49ers. Did we go after the more affordable QB? We unloaded 3 first rounders on Lance. You do everything you can to get the best QB you can. It's the most important position in sport not a position to skimp. Why should other clubs without a QB settle for inferior options?

If Jimmy was always healthy teams wouldn't be concerned about paying him and giving up a couple of 2nd rounders. Unfortunately that's not the case. Teams will be reluctant to invest a lot in a 31 year sold QB with a history of getting injured so often.