The reason we lost nobody wants to talk about

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Oh I agree. Therefore, you needed better pass protection. Therefore, you needed to have multiple short passing options on first downs. Therefore you need to run some sweeps, reverses, quickly screens (we scored on one), etc. You adjust and make life as easy as possible for your immobile QB esp. when injured once you see what the Rams are doing. You don't remain predictable

You don't put Jimmy and this OL in 2nd and long. Period.

PS: You can also lose relying on hero ball (see Mahomes...again). Relying on the athleticism of your QB is doing it wrong.

There is constantly multiple short passing options, what the heck have you been watching to say anything other than that lol. Have you not seen Jimmy's passing chart? Literally EVERYTHING is a short quick pass. All Kyle has done for Jimmy is adjust to what is best for his QB. Hence why we're leading the league in YAC every damn yr.

Jimmy has to throw those screens perfectly though, you can't bounce them off the ground, throw late, high or whatever. That's timing and he is hot and cold there.

Jimmy CAN'T put this OL in 2nd in long either...you can't miss plays like the one he had to Kittle. It's the playoffs and you can't expect to have your best player that open and you air mail it. We will see with the all-22 but the broadcast at certain times would point out a missed read on Jimmy's part (like every week).

Mahomes isn't just hero ball now though...Burrow isn't just hero ball though. Allen isn't just hero ball though...they run their plays all the same BUT when they feel like there's a play to be made outside of a 4 yard slant or the "s**tty OL" breaks down they have that in their tool belt. The margin of error of everyone having to execute a play perfectly isn't as high with those types of QBs. Teams HAVE to play defense differently then they do vs SF because of QB play. There has to be balance and I get that, no one is asking for a QB to scramble every play, but hold the defense accountable. Make it so the DL can't just pin their ears back all game. Play 11 on 11 football like most teams have too now.

1 the kittle throw was the first pass of the game. Stop harping on it. Jimmy is always nerves early. And kyle never carves out plays that settle him down.

2 "other teams qb's...' You mean allen mahomes burrow.. Essentially 3 #1 picks, or could have been.... So you cant have a good offense without generational physical talent? Brilliant. Youve just created the perfect excuse for kyles trophyless career. Its always the quarterbacks fault..... Unless its allen mahomes burrow..

3. The pass pro on the oline is garbage. Jimmy heading for surgery. Kyle had no answers for the run blitz except delay handoffs and empty sets. Thats the reason or offense stagnated. Kyle owns a piece. Not even talking about bonehead defensive penalties and tartts disaster.

....but of course its all on jimmy who carried on the entire season after being publicly humiliated by his fo and kyle.. Im sure trey is taking notes....

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by rk1642:
original post was perfect, now come the excuses about coaching and Jimmy

Play calling and Jimmy's execution follow the s**t show we had from the oline yesterday. The O is setup to run the ball and then play action, we all know this. Could not run the ball yesterday so play action was pretty much dead. You can cry all you want about Jimmy, but his passer rating up to the 4th qtr was over a 100 I believe. Then the line from the center to the rt completely collapsed. They stood there like turnstiles, arms out guarding air but letting free rushers left and right. I agree Jimmy is not a top 10 but he's alot better than this crowd gives him credit for and unless we address the oline next year, Trey is going to be running for his life and his development will be stalled at best.

The team couldn't run because the Rams rightfully had no respect for Jimmy's ability to beat them. This will not be the case with Trey, who has shown repeatedly he can beat a defense deep and has no qualms about throwing downfield.

Throwing deep isn't what backs a defense out. Beating the blitz and consistently burning them in the passing game does when stacked. Trey will have to learn to consistently be efficient in the passing game esp. early when every defense will stack the box and run blitz initially.

It isn't the threat of beating a blitz that keeps 8 and 9 men out of the box. It's the deep threat that does that.

It is not blitz beating that makes every defense play two high safeties against the Chiefs. It's the threat of the deep pass FROM THE QUARTERBACK. I capitalized that because I know you're already pulling out your go-to false claim that Deebo and Aiyuk can't beat corners deep. But a deep passing game isn't just 9 routes. With Trey we will be able to regularly use deep corners, posts, deep crossers outside the numbers, and deep play-action.

Teams might start the 8 box stuff, but when Trey starts burning defenses like he did against the Texans, this offense will more closely resemble the 2016 Falcons.

.
.
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P.S. Jimmy is not efficient. Efficient QBs don't turn the ball over at such a high rate. Jimmy has punctuated efficiency. He'll go a drove or two being efficient, but it's surrounded by stagnation and interceptions. Jimmy is NOT a good game manager. Trey showed in college that he IS. As he learns the NFL game, I am quite sure Trey will continue on being what he is: a good game manager who can attack every corner of the field, but who can also run as an added bonus.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by rk1642:
original post was perfect, now come the excuses about coaching and Jimmy

Play calling and Jimmy's execution follow the s**t show we had from the oline yesterday. The O is setup to run the ball and then play action, we all know this. Could not run the ball yesterday so play action was pretty much dead. You can cry all you want about Jimmy, but his passer rating up to the 4th qtr was over a 100 I believe. Then the line from the center to the rt completely collapsed. They stood there like turnstiles, arms out guarding air but letting free rushers left and right. I agree Jimmy is not a top 10 but he's alot better than this crowd gives him credit for and unless we address the oline next year, Trey is going to be running for his life and his development will be stalled at best.

My #1 fear...developing poor habits right away.

I disagree. If you look around the league you'll notice that every teams offensive line is suspect. There's not enough good lineman in the NFL right now.

Trey will have his lumps but his OL will not be an excuse compared to what every other QB has to deal with.

I'll earmark this. LOL

Go right ahead.

Im not going to pretend that Lance's issues rest on the #3 overall offensive line by PFF that gave up 1 sack in 3 playoff games. LOL

Maybe you will keep that tradition excuses going but not me.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Top 3 reasons we lost:
1- Jimmy
2- Right side of the o-line
3- Tartt dropping the pick.

What about leaving Kupp wide open on his two TD receptions? Or giving up 11 3rd down conversions?

No. We are not going to talk about that.

This is inevitable. The fact is our defense held an offense which scored 27 ppg to 20, and against a defense that allowed 21 ppg our offense only scored 17. This is not on the defense.

Defense couldn't get off the field yesterday. The TOP difference considering it was 3 point game is ridiculous.

Offense couldn't convert third downs. Zero sacks allowed. Team with the BETTER QB won. That's a fact and even you know it.

completely bogus stat ... 'Zero sacks" he was under more pressure than water in a firehose most of the game. Credit to jimmy he found a way to dump off instead of taking sacks ... Which he usually does...

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Oh I agree. Therefore, you needed better pass protection. Therefore, you needed to have multiple short passing options on first downs. Therefore you need to run some sweeps, reverses, quickly screens (we scored on one), etc. You adjust and make life as easy as possible for your immobile QB esp. when injured once you see what the Rams are doing. You don't remain predictable

You don't put Jimmy and this OL in 2nd and long. Period.

PS: You can also lose relying on hero ball (see Mahomes...again). Relying on the athleticism of your QB is doing it wrong.

There is constantly multiple short passing options, what the heck have you been watching to say anything other than that lol. Have you not seen Jimmy's passing chart? Literally EVERYTHING is a short quick pass. All Kyle has done for Jimmy is adjust to what is best for his QB. Hence why we're leading the league in YAC every damn yr.

Jimmy has to throw those screens perfectly though, you can't bounce them off the ground, throw late, high or whatever. That's timing and he is hot and cold there.

Jimmy CAN'T put this OL in 2nd in long either...you can't miss plays like the one he had to Kittle. It's the playoffs and you can't expect to have your best player that open and you air mail it. We will see with the all-22 but the broadcast at certain times would point out a missed read on Jimmy's part (like every week).

Mahomes isn't just hero ball now though...Burrow isn't just hero ball though. Allen isn't just hero ball though...they run their plays all the same BUT when they feel like there's a play to be made outside of a 4 yard slant or the "s**tty OL" breaks down they have that in their tool belt. The margin of error of everyone having to execute a play perfectly isn't as high with those types of QBs. Teams HAVE to play defense differently then they do vs SF because of QB play. There has to be balance and I get that, no one is asking for a QB to scramble every play, but hold the defense accountable. Make it so the DL can't just pin their ears back all game. Play 11 on 11 football like most teams have too now.

1 the kittle throw was the first pass of the game. Stop harping on it. Jimmy is always nerves early. And kyle never carves out plays that settle him down.

2 "other teams qb's...' You mean allen mahomes burrow.. Essentially 3 #1 picks, or could have been.... So you cant have a good offense without generational physical talent? Brilliant. Youve just created the perfect excuse for kyles trophyless career. Its always the quarterbacks fault..... Unless its allen mahomes burrow..

3. The pass pro on the oline is garbage. Jimmy heading for surgery. Kyle had no answers for the run blitz except delay handoffs and empty sets. Thats the reason or offense stagnated. Kyle owns a piece. Not even talking about bonehead defensive penalties and tartts disaster.

....but of course its all on jimmy who carried on the entire season after being publicly humiliated by his fo and kyle.. Im sure trey is taking notes....

Every QB in the playoffs except the Eagles, Steelers and Titans QBs were better than ours.

Borrow
Mahomes
Rodgers
Allen
Brady
Stafford
Carr
Murray
Prescott
Jones

All better than Jimmy.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Youre nuts. The only reason they scored 20 is because of the long sustained drives. That defense was atrocious and abysmal. Two dropped touchdowns also. Did they even punt in the 4th?

I haven't seen the defense play that s**tty since the Titans game.

Ryans pooped in his pants for sure. Last week he held adams to kindergarten yardage. This week he forgot about kooper cupp. Amateur hour.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Oh I agree. Therefore, you needed better pass protection. Therefore, you needed to have multiple short passing options on first downs. Therefore you need to run some sweeps, reverses, quickly screens (we scored on one), etc. You adjust and make life as easy as possible for your immobile QB esp. when injured once you see what the Rams are doing. You don't remain predictable.

You don't put Jimmy and this OL in 2nd and long. Period.

PS: You can also lose relying on hero ball (see Mahomes...again). 'Relying' on the athleticism of your QB is doing it wrong.

It wasn't hero ball, it was a horrible decision before halftime. Excellent QB leading the other side that won, too. Something we surely did not have.

Tartt

Originally posted by KittleMeThis:
Rams came in with a great game plan and thats it.

Kyle tried to go pass first which is what i thought we needed to do anyways, but it didn't work.

Don't be mad that we lost, we got outplayed even if we were up 10 at some point.

Be happy we got this far.

The difference in the game is that they had a QB they felt they could stay aggressive with the entire game, and -- as they knew -- we didn't.

The trust just wasnt there,...just like with our last playoff run. So I have no interest whatsoever in micromanaging the calls or lack thereof.

The horse comes before the cart.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Oh I agree. Therefore, you needed better pass protection. Therefore, you needed to have multiple short passing options on first downs. Therefore you need to run some sweeps, reverses, quickly screens (we scored on one), etc. You adjust and make life as easy as possible for your immobile QB esp. when injured once you see what the Rams are doing. You don't remain predictable

You don't put Jimmy and this OL in 2nd and long. Period.

PS: You can also lose relying on hero ball (see Mahomes...again). Relying on the athleticism of your QB is doing it wrong.

There is constantly multiple short passing options, what the heck have you been watching to say anything other than that lol. Have you not seen Jimmy's passing chart? Literally EVERYTHING is a short quick pass. All Kyle has done for Jimmy is adjust to what is best for his QB. Hence why we're leading the league in YAC every damn yr.

Jimmy has to throw those screens perfectly though, you can't bounce them off the ground, throw late, high or whatever. That's timing and he is hot and cold there.

Jimmy CAN'T put this OL in 2nd in long either...you can't miss plays like the one he had to Kittle. It's the playoffs and you can't expect to have your best player that open and you air mail it. We will see with the all-22 but the broadcast at certain times would point out a missed read on Jimmy's part (like every week).

Mahomes isn't just hero ball now though...Burrow isn't just hero ball though. Allen isn't just hero ball though...they run their plays all the same BUT when they feel like there's a play to be made outside of a 4 yard slant or the "s**tty OL" breaks down they have that in their tool belt. The margin of error of everyone having to execute a play perfectly isn't as high with those types of QBs. Teams HAVE to play defense differently then they do vs SF because of QB play. There has to be balance and I get that, no one is asking for a QB to scramble every play, but hold the defense accountable. Make it so the DL can't just pin their ears back all game. Play 11 on 11 football like most teams have too now.

1 the kittle throw was the first pass of the game. Stop harping on it. Jimmy is always nerves early. And kyle never carves out plays that settle him down.

2 "other teams qb's...' You mean allen mahomes burrow.. Essentially 3 #1 picks, or could have been.... So you cant have a good offense without generational physical talent? Brilliant. Youve just created the perfect excuse for kyles trophyless career. Its always the quarterbacks fault..... Unless its allen mahomes burrow..

3. The pass pro on the oline is garbage. Jimmy heading for surgery. Kyle had no answers for the run blitz except delay handoffs and empty sets. Thats the reason or offense stagnated. Kyle owns a piece. Not even talking about bonehead defensive penalties and tartts disaster.

....but of course its all on jimmy who carried on the entire season after being publicly humiliated by his fo and kyle.. Im sure trey is taking notes....

So you're saying now that the league sees how well the coaches developed Mahomes and Allen, they COULD have been #1 picks? Riiiiiiight……Guess Brady COULD have been a #1 pick too.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Every QB in the playoffs except the Eagles, Steelers and Titans QBs were better than ours.

Borrow
Mahomes
Rodgers
Allen
Brady
Stafford
Carr
Murray
Prescott
Jones

All better than Jimmy.

Really? Jimmy rated 120 into the third quarter with s**t for a run game and turnstile pass pro. Everyone forgets about every quarterbacks bonehead plays, except for Jimmy's. This is Media assassination plain and simple. Matt Stafford made a Jimmy play. Pat Mahomes made a Jimmy play. Dak Prescott made a Jimmy play. But nobody's calling them for every mistake they make. Only Kyle has turned Jimmy G into the public Whipping Boy for his offense. And every media head has jumped right on board. Quite unfairly. And I'm talking about professional reporting not necessarily trying to say Jimmy's doesn't have issues. No other QBs issues get put on the front page like Jimmy's. Again brilliant publicity strategy from the front office.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by rk1642:
original post was perfect, now come the excuses about coaching and Jimmy

Play calling and Jimmy's execution follow the s**t show we had from the oline yesterday. The O is setup to run the ball and then play action, we all know this. Could not run the ball yesterday so play action was pretty much dead. You can cry all you want about Jimmy, but his passer rating up to the 4th qtr was over a 100 I believe. Then the line from the center to the rt completely collapsed. They stood there like turnstiles, arms out guarding air but letting free rushers left and right. I agree Jimmy is not a top 10 but he's alot better than this crowd gives him credit for and unless we address the oline next year, Trey is going to be running for his life and his development will be stalled at best.

The team couldn't run because the Rams rightfully had no respect for Jimmy's ability to beat them. This will not be the case with Trey, who has shown repeatedly he can beat a defense deep and has no qualms about throwing downfield.

Throwing deep isn't what backs a defense out. Beating the blitz and consistently burning them in the passing game does when stacked. Trey will have to learn to consistently be efficient in the passing game esp. early when every defense will stack the box and run blitz initially.

It's a mix, more to do with short passing in that situation. If that's successful and the team is still blitz happy, they will have a safety come up and cheat, and that's when the deep ball comes into play.

Trey's got the deep ball and arm for it, hopefully he will also learn to be accurate and scan the field quickly to find those open recovers around 5 yards past the LOS.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by rk1642:
original post was perfect, now come the excuses about coaching and Jimmy

Play calling and Jimmy's execution follow the s**t show we had from the oline yesterday. The O is setup to run the ball and then play action, we all know this. Could not run the ball yesterday so play action was pretty much dead. You can cry all you want about Jimmy, but his passer rating up to the 4th qtr was over a 100 I believe. Then the line from the center to the rt completely collapsed. They stood there like turnstiles, arms out guarding air but letting free rushers left and right. I agree Jimmy is not a top 10 but he's alot better than this crowd gives him credit for and unless we address the oline next year, Trey is going to be running for his life and his development will be stalled at best.

My #1 fear...developing poor habits right away.

I disagree. If you look around the league you'll notice that every teams offensive line is suspect. There's not enough good lineman in the NFL right now.

Trey will have his lumps but his OL will not be an excuse compared to what every other QB has to deal with.

At least Trey has a chance to run, get out of trouble and make a play. Jimmy just stands there with cement shoes. If he throws out of the pocket it usually ends up as a pick.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by rk1642:
original post was perfect, now come the excuses about coaching and Jimmy

Play calling and Jimmy's execution follow the s**t show we had from the oline yesterday. The O is setup to run the ball and then play action, we all know this. Could not run the ball yesterday so play action was pretty much dead. You can cry all you want about Jimmy, but his passer rating up to the 4th qtr was over a 100 I believe. Then the line from the center to the rt completely collapsed. They stood there like turnstiles, arms out guarding air but letting free rushers left and right. I agree Jimmy is not a top 10 but he's alot better than this crowd gives him credit for and unless we address the oline next year, Trey is going to be running for his life and his development will be stalled at best.

The team couldn't run because the Rams rightfully had no respect for Jimmy's ability to beat them. This will not be the case with Trey, who has shown repeatedly he can beat a defense deep and has no qualms about throwing downfield.

Throwing deep isn't what backs a defense out. Beating the blitz and consistently burning them in the passing game does when stacked. Trey will have to learn to consistently be efficient in the passing game esp. early when every defense will stack the box and run blitz initially.

It isn't the threat of beating a blitz that keeps 8 and 9 men out of the box. It's the deep threat that does that.

It is not blitz beating that makes every defense play two high safeties against the Chiefs. It's the threat of the deep pass FROM THE QUARTERBACK. I capitalized that because I know you're already pulling out your go-to false claim that Deebo and Aiyuk can't beat corners deep. But a deep passing game isn't just 9 routes. With Trey we will be able to regularly use deep corners, posts, deep crossers outside the numbers, and deep play-action.

Teams might start the 8 box stuff, but when Trey starts burning defenses like he did against the Texans, this offense will more closely resemble the 2016 Falcons.

.
.
.

P.S. Jimmy is not efficient. Efficient QBs don't turn the ball over at such a high rate. Jimmy has punctuated efficiency. He'll go a drove or two being efficient, but it's surrounded by stagnation and interceptions. Jimmy is NOT a good game manager. Trey showed in college that he IS. As he learns the NFL game, I am quite sure Trey will continue on being what he is: a good game manager who can attack every corner of the field, but who can also run as an added bonus.

LOL. No.

Originally posted by Wrathman:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by rk1642:
original post was perfect, now come the excuses about coaching and Jimmy

Play calling and Jimmy's execution follow the s**t show we had from the oline yesterday. The O is setup to run the ball and then play action, we all know this. Could not run the ball yesterday so play action was pretty much dead. You can cry all you want about Jimmy, but his passer rating up to the 4th qtr was over a 100 I believe. Then the line from the center to the rt completely collapsed. They stood there like turnstiles, arms out guarding air but letting free rushers left and right. I agree Jimmy is not a top 10 but he's alot better than this crowd gives him credit for and unless we address the oline next year, Trey is going to be running for his life and his development will be stalled at best.

My #1 fear...developing poor habits right away.

I disagree. If you look around the league you'll notice that every teams offensive line is suspect. There's not enough good lineman in the NFL right now.

Trey will have his lumps but his OL will not be an excuse compared to what every other QB has to deal with.

At least Trey has a chance to run, get out of trouble and make a play. Jimmy just stands there with cement shoes. If he throws out of the pocket it usually ends up as a pick.

The problem is that when our PP fails, it usually collapses completely and quickly as a unit. That's why Trey got sacked so much too. But he does give you a much better shot at fails.