Why Have our Last Two Promising QB Prospects Flamed Out?

I got excited to some extent when Jimmy first got here. Same with Kap. The thing is I forgot my own rule about waiting at least a full season before deciding if they were the right guys.

Jimmy put up some nice numbers at the end of 2017 but go back and look at who he did it against. Three teasm with losing records and 2 that were already set in the playoffs. The numbers were a little deceiving. Then the injuries started piling up and it became clear that he couldn't be counted on for the long term.

Colin just never improved. If fact if anything he regressed. His arm was great but he could never control his throws. He also had terrible pocket awareness and often turned right into the pass rush. Great speed in the open field but his feet were slow in the pocket.

I'll try not to make the same mistake with Trey who will likely need at least a full season to show if he's the real deal.

kap got worse once he stopped caring about football an started caring more about going after other players girlfriends. sadly thats not a joke. go look it up then look at when he started to decline. were better off without that clown.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
We thought Kap was the one. He signed his #KAP2020 deal and we thought we had our QB of the future. I remember watching games and him looking unstoppable with accurate passes, timely QB scrambles and explosive plays. I literally thought in 2014 that we could beat anyone. And then it fell apart. It's not just the team fell apart, Kap looked like a shell of himself, like he didn't know how to play QB. The "yips game" against the Cards where he threw like three pick sixes was dumbfounding. Then the following game against the Packers where it looked like Kap was afraid to throw. What happened there? Were there personal issues in his life affecting the field? Was he just not committed to being a better player? Was the team as a whole a cluster-F?

Or maybe we as fans had on rose colored-glasses and saw what we wanted to see.

Then there was Jimmy. In 2017 he looked magical. That sexy quick release, the way we moved effortlessly up and down the field and Jimmy was doing all of this with just a "Cliff Notes" version of Kyles offense. Imagine what he would do with a full grasp of the offense. Then Jimmy just kept getting hurt. The 2018 season should have been the season where Jimmy had to put it all together, make a ton of "rookie mistakes" and we win 10 games and get a wild card berth. But instead he got injured. Prior to that injury, Jimmy was fearless. He'd actually look to scramble and pick up yards with his legs and extend plays. He looked explosive too and illusive in the pocket? What happened? Is the team just snake-bitten?

Or maybe, again, we had on rose-colored glasses. Maybe Jimmy was the same Jimmy he is now, it's just that we were comparing it against Beathard and Mullens. Jimmy was still throwing the same bonehead ints in 2017 and 2018, we just ignored it, maybe.

Why so many false starts, with our last two QBs? Why will Trey be different?

My take:

Both had mental deficiencies and an unwillingness and/or inability to fix them.

For Kap, it was anticipatory throwing, combined with a long release. For Jimmy, it was field vision.*

According to an anonymous 49ers coach from the time, Kap would sometimes get close to finally grasping anticipatory throwing, but he could never quite get it. He remained a see it, throw it QB most of the time for the duration of his career. This was definitely his biggest on the field weakness, because his long release added those extra milliseconds. And then after the Cardinals fully exploited that weakness in 2015, he went down the tubes for an entire season. He remained overly cautious the rest of his career.

As for Jimmy, guys like Kurt Warner believes he doesn't even look at the defense post-snap, looking only at his WRs. I don't know if that's true or not, but I am very well convinced that there's something wrong with how he sees the field. It isn't progressions. It's not something so trivial. It's that his vision suffers in some way. It's definitely NOT anticipatory throwing, as he is very good at it. That would lend some credence to Kurt Warner's hypothesis that what's really going on is that Jimmy has all of his focus on his own WRs rather than the defense post-snap. Which could (probably does) indicate that most of the time he's pre-determining where he's going with the ball based on his pre-snap read.

Both of these guys had exceptional physical gifts that allowed them to be functional QBs despite these weaknesses: for Kap it was his rocket arm; for Jimmy it's his lightning release and ability to throw short with weird arm angles.

But neither one ever noticeably improved those weaknesses, and it capped their potential.

.
.
.
*I'm not going to bring up Jimmy's mechanics, because those are the very same things that allow him to throw with ridiculous arm angles. Yeah, his deep accuracy suffers, but in exchange you get some great play in the 10 yard box under pressure that most QBs can't do.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
My take:

Both had mental deficiencies and an unwillingness and/or inability to fix them.

For Kap, it was anticipatory throwing, combined with a long release. For Jimmy, it was field vision.*

According to an anonymous 49ers coach from the time, Kap would sometimes get close to finally grasping anticipatory throwing, but he could never quite get it. He remained a see it, throw it QB most of the time for the duration of his career. This was definitely his biggest on the field weakness, because his long release added those extra milliseconds. And then after the Cardinals fully exploited that weakness in 2015, he went down the tubes for an entire season. He remained overly cautious the rest of his career.

As for Jimmy, guys like Kurt Warner believes he doesn't even look at the defense post-snap, looking only at his WRs. I don't know if that's true or not, but I am very well convinced that there's something wrong with how he sees the field. It isn't progressions. It's not something so trivial. It's that his vision suffers in some way. It's definitely NOT anticipatory throwing, as he is very good at it. That would lend some credence to Kurt Warner's hypothesis that what's really going on is that Jimmy has all of his focus on his own WRs rather than the defense post-snap. Which could (probably does) indicate that most of the time he's pre-determining where he's going with the ball based on his pre-snap read.

Both of these guys had exceptional physical gifts that allowed them to be functional QBs despite these weaknesses: for Kap it was his rocket arm; for Jimmy it's his lightning release and ability to throw short with weird arm angles.

But neither one ever noticeably improved those weaknesses, and it capped their potential.

.
.
.
*I'm not going to bring up Jimmy's mechanics, because those are the very same things that allow him to throw with ridiculous arm angles. Yeah, his deep accuracy suffers, but in exchange you get some great play in the 10 yard box under pressure that most QBs can't do.

That would make explain why there are interceptions where it seems Jimmy just flat out never sees the defender.
I always figured it was just Jimmy being an overly aggressive QB, in nature.

Kap became a vegan and got caught up in his off field endeavors and Jimmy was a good QB that was horribly brittle. he wasnt the badass he looked to be after that injury and mostly played it safe after that. I feel like we would have atleast two rings if Jimmy didnt get hurt, that injury completely changed how he played. hopefully Lance can be the best of both worlds. he looks like hes pretty fearless with what he tries to do with the ball, hes got a cannon for an arm and he seems to be a hard worker and a genuinely good human being that people will want to play hard for. I dont think we couldve asked for a better mentor for a rookie QB. jimmy did everything the right way, dude is just incredibly unlucky when it comes to injuries. Lance looked visibly better in his second start and won a clutch game to help us get into the playoffs when it mattered. I think the sky is the limit for this kid. we have weapons everywhere now, just need to make sure that line is solid and get a few corners and this team is a powerhouse for the next decade or two

Originally posted by Wubbie:
That would make explain why there are interceptions where it seems Jimmy just flat out never sees the defender.
I always figured it was just Jimmy being an overly aggressive QB, in nature.

JohnnyDel does quite a thorough breakdown on the plays and system his videos. Basically, Kurt doesn't get the system.

A lot of our pass plays are designed to put a specific defender in a conflict. Depending on the pre-snap read, the QB keys in on that defender and watches HIM (hence Kurt thinking he's staring at wr) - the key defender's decision signals where jimmy goes with the ball

Originally posted by mtl_49er:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
That would make explain why there are interceptions where it seems Jimmy just flat out never sees the defender.
I always figured it was just Jimmy being an overly aggressive QB, in nature.

JohnnyDel does quite a thorough breakdown on the plays and system his videos. Basically, Kurt doesn't get the system.

A lot of our pass plays are designed to put a specific defender in a conflict. Depending on the pre-snap read, the QB keys in on that defender and watches HIM (hence Kurt thinking he's staring at wr) - the key defender's decision signals where jimmy goes with the ball

I've picked the Warner stuff apart myself as he even hates on a great throw admitting he knows nothing about the play. With that said I do think one of Jimmy's biggest issues was him trusting the play too much pre snap and already having a good idea where he was going. It's why so many of his int's, not all were "WTF were you doing?" interceptions. He's extremely good at presnap and getting the play out really fast. He's so-so when the play breaks down or when a defender tricks him.

Yeah kap was insanely good then the league caught up to him and we had a bunch of retirements and drama

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
We thought Kap was the one. He signed his #KAP2020 deal and we thought we had our QB of the future. I remember watching games and him looking unstoppable with accurate passes, timely QB scrambles and explosive plays. I literally thought in 2014 that we could beat anyone. And then it fell apart. It's not just the team fell apart, Kap looked like a shell of himself, like he didn't know how to play QB. The "yips game" against the Cards where he threw like three pick sixes was dumbfounding. Then the following game against the Packers where it looked like Kap was afraid to throw. What happened there? Were there personal issues in his life affecting the field? Was he just not committed to being a better player? Was the team as a whole a cluster-F?

Or maybe we as fans had on rose colored-glasses and saw what we wanted to see.

Then there was Jimmy. In 2017 he looked magical. That sexy quick release, the way we moved effortlessly up and down the field and Jimmy was doing all of this with just a "Cliff Notes" version of Kyles offense. Imagine what he would do with a full grasp of the offense. Then Jimmy just kept getting hurt. The 2018 season should have been the season where Jimmy had to put it all together, make a ton of "rookie mistakes" and we win 10 games and get a wild card berth. But instead he got injured. Prior to that injury, Jimmy was fearless. He'd actually look to scramble and pick up yards with his legs and extend plays. He looked explosive too and illusive in the pocket? What happened? Is the team just snake-bitten?

Or maybe, again, we had on rose-colored glasses. Maybe Jimmy was the same Jimmy he is now, it's just that we were comparing it against Beathard and Mullens. Jimmy was still throwing the same bonehead ints in 2017 and 2018, we just ignored it, maybe.

Why so many false starts, with our last two QBs? Why will Trey be different?

You wanted to know what happened to Kap?. One word...Nessa.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Still trying to figure out why Jim Druckenmiller flamed out

Drunkenmiller!🤣😂😅😂

Yeah he played that way.😂👍

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
My take:

Both had mental deficiencies and an unwillingness and/or inability to fix them.

For Kap, it was anticipatory throwing, combined with a long release. For Jimmy, it was field vision.*

According to an anonymous 49ers coach from the time, Kap would sometimes get close to finally grasping anticipatory throwing, but he could never quite get it. He remained a see it, throw it QB most of the time for the duration of his career. This was definitely his biggest on the field weakness, because his long release added those extra milliseconds. And then after the Cardinals fully exploited that weakness in 2015, he went down the tubes for an entire season. He remained overly cautious the rest of his career.

As for Jimmy, guys like Kurt Warner believes he doesn't even look at the defense post-snap, looking only at his WRs. I don't know if that's true or not, but I am very well convinced that there's something wrong with how he sees the field. It isn't progressions. It's not something so trivial. It's that his vision suffers in some way. It's definitely NOT anticipatory throwing, as he is very good at it. That would lend some credence to Kurt Warner's hypothesis that what's really going on is that Jimmy has all of his focus on his own WRs rather than the defense post-snap. Which could (probably does) indicate that most of the time he's pre-determining where he's going with the ball based on his pre-snap read.

Both of these guys had exceptional physical gifts that allowed them to be functional QBs despite these weaknesses: for Kap it was his rocket arm; for Jimmy it's his lightning release and ability to throw short with weird arm angles.

But neither one ever noticeably improved those weaknesses, and it capped their potential.

.
.
.
*I'm not going to bring up Jimmy's mechanics, because those are the very same things that allow him to throw with ridiculous arm angles. Yeah, his deep accuracy suffers, but in exchange you get some great play in the 10 yard box under pressure that most QBs can't do.

That would make explain why there are interceptions where it seems Jimmy just flat out never sees the defender.
I always figured it was just Jimmy being an overly aggressive QB, in nature.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank god there are a lot of bad coaches and front offices in the NFL such that - they probably don't even know about Jimmy's footwork/vision and will still give us a high round pick for Jimmy.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:

Originally posted by mtl_49er:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
That would make explain why there are interceptions where it seems Jimmy just flat out never sees the defender.
I always figured it was just Jimmy being an overly aggressive QB, in nature.

JohnnyDel does quite a thorough breakdown on the plays and system his videos. Basically, Kurt doesn't get the system.

A lot of our pass plays are designed to put a specific defender in a conflict. Depending on the pre-snap read, the QB keys in on that defender and watches HIM (hence Kurt thinking he's staring at wr) - the key defender's decision signals where jimmy goes with the ball

I've picked the Warner stuff apart myself as he even hates on a great throw admitting he knows nothing about the play. With that said I do think one of Jimmy's biggest issues was him trusting the play too much pre snap and already having a good idea where he was going. It's why so many of his int's, not all were "WTF were you doing?" interceptions. He's extremely good at presnap and getting the play out really fast. He's so-so when the play breaks down or when a defender tricks him.

I'm hoping Trey has better vision than Jimmy and is able to get out of pre-snap reads and actually look at the defense and read it, versus predetermining the throw. Having said that, the guy coaching him is Kyle. If anybody has an inkling of what the problem was with Jimmy, it's Kyle. So Kyle spends 3 first round picks on Trey, and that to me is an indication that there was something about Jimmy that Kyle thought Jimmy couldn't improve upon. Kyle's stated reason for moving on from Jimmy was injuries, and that's something that I don't think can usually be improved with more experience. I think that's a good enough reason in my view for moving on from Jimmy. However, if it's the fact that Jimmy couldn't get Kyle's offense, that's a whole can of worms to open up about Jimmy. I'm hoping Trey can grasp Kyle's offense much better than Jimmy could, if the problem was a vision problem - of which I have doubts about that theory.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Still trying to figure out why Jim Druckenmiller flamed out

That was such a bad pick. Jake Plummer was the obvious choice, he was the Walsh backed choice and the team instead wanted the massive, lumbering pocket passer that had a cannon arm but struggled to hit the broadside of the barn with his passes.

They screwed up that draft so badly. They ended up with Druckenmiller, Marc Edwards and Greg Clark. They could have easily walked out wit:

Jake Plummer, Sam Madison or Corey Dillon

Jason Taylor or Ronde Barber.

Mike Vrabel or Derrick Mason.

The best QB's out of the draft class ended up being Plummer and undrafted Jake Delhomme.

Jake Delhomme that threw 4 interceptions in the SB loss (or was it 5) and the idiot Panthers extended him to an even bigger contract that off season? Yep,he was a fantastic free agent!

Kyle is on the hot seat the moment Jimmy G walks out the front door. He put down quite a few snaps for Trey. Evidently he saw SOMETHING in Trey that he liked and BELIEVES that he can develop a champion from it. Oh, yeah. And don't forget Gentleman John. There is some kindling under his behind too

Only the last 2 ? Lol