Why Have our Last Two Promising QB Prospects Flamed Out?

I blame Kap on Kap and Harbaugh walking away, I truly think if Harbaugh stayed and was given the power he wanted this team would've won a SB that era, as for Jimmy, he's just not a guy you depend on to make the great drive under the brightest lights and most important situations, he's not built for it, not much you can say but he's limited in the most important ways.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Young2Owens:
Kap didn't focus on the right parts of his game early on. He didn't grind film study as much as he grinded in the weight room. So by year 3 when defenses adapted to him, he couldn't adapt himself and plateaued while the team around him fell apart. Still was good enough to be a starter (better than Cam IMO) but not good enough for other teams to bring him in given the controversy surrounding him.

Jimmy is a good QB, but good is not good enough given our current aspirations. Simple as that. But Jimmy will have a long successful career in this league.

BETTER than Cam?

Yeah that's a laugh. Cam won an MVP with worse coaching and no hiding his deficiencies. Harbaugh was just like shanahan and started dialing things back as soon as he realized kap was not the guy just like shanahan did with Jimmy.

Cam was bigger faster and stronger than kap and a beast who could run people over. Probably the most physically gifted QB ever. He got ridden into the ground though like a bull crashed through wall after wall.

Cam was forced to pound the rock and throw all over the field even though he had limits just like kap and Jimmy. The difference is his coaches sucked and forced him to do it even if he was not good at it.

That's the whole reason I laugh at all these coaches trying to teach these run first QBs to pass. If cam couldn't win a Superbowl there is not another run first QB with more physical gifts than he had. So why would any other prospect be able to pull it off?

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Young2Owens:
Kap didn't focus on the right parts of his game early on. He didn't grind film study as much as he grinded in the weight room. So by year 3 when defenses adapted to him, he couldn't adapt himself and plateaued while the team around him fell apart. Still was good enough to be a starter (better than Cam IMO) but not good enough for other teams to bring him in given the controversy surrounding him.

Jimmy is a good QB, but good is not good enough given our current aspirations. Simple as that. But Jimmy will have a long successful career in this league.

BETTER than Cam?

Yeah that's a laugh. Cam won an MVP with worse coaching and no hiding his deficiencies. Harbaugh was just like shanahan and started dialing things back as soon as he realized kap was not the guy just like shanahan did with Jimmy.

Cam was bigger faster and stronger than kap and a beast who could run people over. Probably the most physically gifted QB ever. He got ridden into the ground though like a bull crashed through wall after wall.

Cam was forced to pound the rock and throw all over the field even though he had limits just like kap and Jimmy. The difference is his coaches sucked and forced him to do it even if he was not good at it.

That's the whole reason I laugh at all these coaches trying to teach these run first QBs to pass. If cam couldn't win a Superbowl there is not another run first QB with more physical gifts than he had. So why would any other prospect be able to pull it off?

Lmao Cam as a thrower f**kin sucked dude. You're acting like he was some amazing QB. He caught the league by surprise just like all these fast guys do. Cam was as mentally tough as a pissed on napkin. Dude was not built mentally to handle pressure. He broke down and made boneheaded plays for the rest of the game as soon as the pressure got to him

Teams figured out how to play them, and took away the east stuff. Teams know now, stop the outside zone, load the middle zones with safety's/robber ect and JG is ineffective.

same with Kap, load the box, take away explosive plays and make him have sustained drives. Not very effective at it. I think also in Kaps case he did seem to lose confidence and maybe this personal life/situation was a distraction but the wheels where coming off regardless.

I don't agree that Garoppolo has flamed out, but if you look through a list of the higher picks guys, you will find plenty of Trubisky's.

Originally posted by NC49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Still trying to figure out why Jim Druckenmiller flamed out

That was such a bad pick. Jake Plummer was the obvious choice, he was the Walsh backed choice and the team instead wanted the massive, lumbering pocket passer that had a cannon arm but struggled to hit the broadside of the barn with his passes.

They screwed up that draft so badly. They ended up with Druckenmiller, Marc Edwards and Greg Clark. They could have easily walked out wit:

Jake Plummer, Sam Madison or Corey Dillon

Jason Taylor or Ronde Barber.

Mike Vrabel or Derrick Mason.

The best QB's out of the draft class ended up being Plummer and undrafted Jake Delhomme.

Jake Delhomme that threw 4 interceptions in the SB loss (or was it 5) and the idiot Panthers extended him to an even bigger contract that off season? Yep,he was a fantastic free agent!

You seem to be leaving out the part where an undrafted FA QB got his team to the Super Bowl....

Originally posted by RDB4216:

Originally posted by NC49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Still trying to figure out why Jim Druckenmiller flamed out

That was such a bad pick. Jake Plummer was the obvious choice, he was the Walsh backed choice and the team instead wanted the massive, lumbering pocket passer that had a cannon arm but struggled to hit the broadside of the barn with his passes.

They screwed up that draft so badly. They ended up with Druckenmiller, Marc Edwards and Greg Clark. They could have easily walked out wit:

Jake Plummer, Sam Madison or Corey Dillon

Jason Taylor or Ronde Barber.

Mike Vrabel or Derrick Mason.

The best QB's out of the draft class ended up being Plummer and undrafted Jake Delhomme.

Jake Delhomme that threw 4 interceptions in the SB loss (or was it 5) and the idiot Panthers extended him to an even bigger contract that off season? Yep,he was a fantastic free agent!

You seem to be leaving out the part where an undrafted FA QB got his team to the Super Bowl....

Lol this. Jake was a good QB for a while.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Young2Owens:
Kap didn't focus on the right parts of his game early on. He didn't grind film study as much as he grinded in the weight room. So by year 3 when defenses adapted to him, he couldn't adapt himself and plateaued while the team around him fell apart. Still was good enough to be a starter (better than Cam IMO) but not good enough for other teams to bring him in given the controversy surrounding him.

Jimmy is a good QB, but good is not good enough given our current aspirations. Simple as that. But Jimmy will have a long successful career in this league.

BETTER than Cam?

Yeah that's a laugh. Cam won an MVP with worse coaching and no hiding his deficiencies. Harbaugh was just like shanahan and started dialing things back as soon as he realized kap was not the guy just like shanahan did with Jimmy.

Cam was bigger faster and stronger than kap and a beast who could run people over. Probably the most physically gifted QB ever. He got ridden into the ground though like a bull crashed through wall after wall.

Cam was forced to pound the rock and throw all over the field even though he had limits just like kap and Jimmy. The difference is his coaches sucked and forced him to do it even if he was not good at it.

That's the whole reason I laugh at all these coaches trying to teach these run first QBs to pass. If cam couldn't win a Superbowl there is not another run first QB with more physical gifts than he had. So why would any other prospect be able to pull it off?

Lmao Cam as a thrower f**kin sucked dude. You're acting like he was some amazing QB. He caught the league by surprise just like all these fast guys do. Cam was as mentally tough as a pissed on napkin. Dude was not built mentally to handle pressure. He broke down and made boneheaded plays for the rest of the game as soon as the pressure got to him

CAM will never be a SHOE IN Hall of Famer, but Kap was and will never be better than Cam..

Originally posted by English:
I don't agree that Garoppolo has flamed out, but if you look through a list of the higher picks guys, you will find plenty of Trubisky's.

It's hard to flame out when the flame never really ignited. I prefer to look at Jimmy as a guy that just never really got up to full speed. Starts and stops because of injuries had something to do with it but I don't think he had the skills to ever be a great QB. He was a mid tier talent for most of his time here with an occasional good game.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by English:
I don't agree that Garoppolo has flamed out, but if you look through a list of the higher picks guys, you will find plenty of Trubisky's.

It's hard to flame out when the flame never really ignited. I prefer to look at Jimmy as a guy that just never really got up to full speed. Starts and stops because of injuries had something to do with it but I don't think he had the skills to ever be a great QB. He was a mid tier talent for most of his time here with an occasional good game.

I think injuries had a big part to do with it. Also (when compared to guys like Trey Lance) he clearly doesn't have those kinds of physical tools. He's had a pretty good career. Super bowl appearance and an NFCCG- he's still relatively young, and if he goes to a team with a good coach and personnel, he will always be a dangerous QB. I certainly don't want him in the NFC if i could help it. Hope he ends up in the AFC, I think he's that good.

Because neither had the desire to be great. They were content with being good.
Getting $100M strips the desire for some. Its unfortunate, but understandable.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by English:
I don't agree that Garoppolo has flamed out, but if you look through a list of the higher picks guys, you will find plenty of Trubisky's.

It's hard to flame out when the flame never really ignited. I prefer to look at Jimmy as a guy that just never really got up to full speed. Starts and stops because of injuries had something to do with it but I don't think he had the skills to ever be a great QB. He was a mid tier talent for most of his time here with an occasional good game.

I think injuries had a big part to do with it. Also (when compared to guys like Trey Lance) he clearly doesn't have those kinds of physical tools. He's had a pretty good career. Super bowl appearance and an NFCCG- he's still relatively young, and if he goes to a team with a good coach and personnel, he will always be a dangerous QB. I certainly don't want him in the NFC if i could help it. Hope he ends up in the AFC, I think he's that good.

I'm not sure I would consider him relatively young. He'll be 31 next season and he's had 2 major season ending injuries and now a thumb injury that will require surgery. Those injuries can age a player fast. He's only had 2 healthy full seasons in the league. I think he's past his prime and not going to get better.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by English:
I don't agree that Garoppolo has flamed out, but if you look through a list of the higher picks guys, you will find plenty of Trubisky's.

It's hard to flame out when the flame never really ignited. I prefer to look at Jimmy as a guy that just never really got up to full speed. Starts and stops because of injuries had something to do with it but I don't think he had the skills to ever be a great QB. He was a mid tier talent for most of his time here with an occasional good game.

I saw Grappy much like Troy Aikman.. he will never have the greatest stats obviously, and he was a right play call away or 2 from beating KC in the Super Bowl..

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
My take:

Both had mental deficiencies and an unwillingness and/or inability to fix them.

For Kap, it was anticipatory throwing, combined with a long release. For Jimmy, it was field vision.*

According to an anonymous 49ers coach from the time, Kap would sometimes get close to finally grasping anticipatory throwing, but he could never quite get it. He remained a see it, throw it QB most of the time for the duration of his career. This was definitely his biggest on the field weakness, because his long release added those extra milliseconds. And then after the Cardinals fully exploited that weakness in 2015, he went down the tubes for an entire season. He remained overly cautious the rest of his career.

As for Jimmy, guys like Kurt Warner believes he doesn't even look at the defense post-snap, looking only at his WRs. I don't know if that's true or not, but I am very well convinced that there's something wrong with how he sees the field. It isn't progressions. It's not something so trivial. It's that his vision suffers in some way. It's definitely NOT anticipatory throwing, as he is very good at it. That would lend some credence to Kurt Warner's hypothesis that what's really going on is that Jimmy has all of his focus on his own WRs rather than the defense post-snap. Which could (probably does) indicate that most of the time he's pre-determining where he's going with the ball based on his pre-snap read.

Both of these guys had exceptional physical gifts that allowed them to be functional QBs despite these weaknesses: for Kap it was his rocket arm; for Jimmy it's his lightning release and ability to throw short with weird arm angles.

But neither one ever noticeably improved those weaknesses, and it capped their potential.

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*I'm not going to bring up Jimmy's mechanics, because those are the very same things that allow him to throw with ridiculous arm angles. Yeah, his deep accuracy suffers, but in exchange you get some great play in the 10 yard box under pressure that most QBs can't do.

That would make explain why there are interceptions where it seems Jimmy just flat out never sees the defender.
I always figured it was just Jimmy being an overly aggressive QB, in nature.

AGAIN, it's KS10's gimmick offense which doesn't call for the QB to read what the defense is giving him..

Again, NO IT'S NOT. Case in point:


How do you explain this? Here we have the SAME PLAY (the only difference is a motion), and the QBs each throw to two different spots.

His offense is a predetermine read where the ball should go via expectation of where the secondary is going to be..

Completely made up b******t. The 2016 Falcons playbook is on the internet. Nothing like this is there. It's a progression offense that also has all the same things every other NFL offense has, including alerts and progression adjustments.

this is the same reason why Grappy looks lost out there when he sees that SPOT is covered..

Wrong. Jimmy looks lost because he's a one-read QB who predetermines where he's throwing the ball based on his pre-snap read most of the time.

you ever see our QBs drop back deep to stand and deliver?

The fact that you see Brandon Aiyuk throwing up his hands in frustration when he's open but doesn't get the ball disproves this baseless notion.

just watch some games again, and if it's not a play action, you see Grappy just drops back quickly and releases the ball..

Every team has three step drop plays where the first read is a short pass. That's a staple of the NFL game. That doesn't mean the offense doesn't have progressions.

he doesn't see other WRs getting open down the field because he is told to throw it to the initial target right away..

Wrong. It depends on the progression and the play. And the bigger concern with Jimmy is that he doesn't see DEFENDERS. Hence the interceptions that go directly to the defender's chest.

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EDIT — Let me add that on Trey's start against the Texans, he had more 10+ yard through the air passes in a game than any 49ers QB for the last three years. He led the entire NFL in intended air yards per attempt as well. You going to tell me the ENTIRE OFFENSE changed in one week? No. Trey chose to throw deeper. That's what happened.

For example, on the boot play. Jimmy would have thrown it to the short, leaking TE 100% of the time. Trey backpeddled and threw to the deep crosser. Different QBs, different choices on where to go with the ball.

1.) Politics. Gotta focus football to stay great
2.) injuries