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QB Brock Purdy Thread

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Nov 28, 2023 at 1:36 PM
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.
pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

Passing attempts is a bit misleading. Dropbacks is a better stat to use for pass/run split.

Statistics can be misleading. Both Statistics and watching the game are equally important.
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:38 PM
  • Furlow
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,078
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by dj43:
I don't think calling him conservative is accurate, or fair. I believe your point about owning the ball and killing the clock is his goal.

I love the way Purdy brings the team down the field with chunk plays. It is exciting to watch. However, when it only takes 4-5 minutes to score, the defense is back on the field again with little time to rest. That catches up with you in the 4th, as you say.

Its not.

Bears threw 27 times yesterday and over half of then were at or behind the line of scrimmage. Compare that to against Seattle where Brock was routinely throwing 20 yard shots. Those arent the same because of similar attempts. It's what you do when you throw.

Kyle wants to attack with the pass down the field.

Yet you have no statements from him nor any stats that prove this to be true. Talk about "projecting" (ATT's word not mine). Come on, guys. It's okay to have a conservative coach, it works. No need to take it personally.
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:39 PM
Sorry idk how to post the videos like you guys do but I'm cam across this and thought it's cool insight.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8f7JQxs/
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:40 PM
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

I had to look up the run/pass balance. Currently it's 336 to 309 with more runs than passes. That's pretty even in the run pass balance mixture. Tough to key on Kyle's run or pass tendencies with that kind of statistics.

Personally, one reason Kyle is so conservative is I think to preserve the health and stamina of his defense. Keep the offense on the field and rest the defense for the all important fourth quarter when the defense has to pass rush and shut the game down for the 49ers because they are usually ahead by the 3rd QTR.

No it's not tough at all. You can't just look at the numbers compared to each other and claim "balance." The NFL for a long time has been shifting to more pass oriented; so you have to look at the numbers relative to other teams. Currently the Niners are dead last in passing attempts. Stressing the word LAST. The are 6th in rushing attempts. As in SIXTH. Sixth in rushing, last in passing.

Yet some want to continue with this insane narrative that Kyle is an aggressive coach who wants his QB's to launch the ball down the field. Nothing (in terms of his philosophy) has changed from Matt Ryan (with prime Julio Jones) to Jimmy, to now Purdy. The difference is Purdy (and Ryan) is willing to push the comfort zone and take calculated chances for chunk plays. Kyle NEEDS a QB like Purdy (and Ryan) to do that.

Don't forget Kyle's system is married to the Zone run. The air coryell offense was more of a gap/power running system. That's why I think Kyle doesn't need to throw it downfield 50 yards every other down. He can still get the explosive play by drawing the defense to one side of the field and hitting the drag routes and TE's boots to the other side of the field. Same effect as a play action pass with the WR getting behind the DB and catching a pass. Instead, it's Deebo YAC'ing his way to a TD from the left hashmark while 90% of the opposing defense is faked out and are with McCaffrey on the right hashmark.
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:41 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.
pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.
you need to focus, and stop pretending that the atts tell the philosophy or anything you are trying to say.

you have to factor a lot of other things. Blowouts, efficiency , TOP. Etc

We're not a one dimensional team and the results prove that

I didn't say we're a one dimensional team, but I understand why you're trying to change the subject - because you're losing the debate. Kyle has been an OC or head coach for 16 years and has consistently ranked in the top 5-10 in rushing attempts and bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. And your argument now is that none of that data means anything? Just apologize and move on lol.
losing what debate ?

There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

The debate (thank you for admitting that you forgot lol) is whether Kyle is conservative or not. No better measure than run/pass splits. Your argument now (it's changed many times today) is that Kyle's offenses have a lot of rushing attempts relative to other teams because his teams are winning so many games in blowouts.

You're burying yourself at this point. No malice nor anything negative being attempted by me here. Don't even know what you're all bent out of shape for anyway. This is not a knock on Kyle, it's simply an acknowledgement of his philosophy and what he wants as a play caller and coach. For that to be successful, he needs an aggressive QB to push him out of his comfort zone and maximize the relatively few attempts that he gets as a passer. We 100% have that in Brock Purdy.
again.. There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

why on earth would we pass more in a blowout.. ridiculous.

plus your rush att take only adds up to 1 or two attempts a game, far from rush philosophy.

it's balanced philosophy always has been
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:43 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Yet you have no statements from him nor any stats that prove this to be true. Talk about "projecting" (ATT's word not mine). Come on, guys. It's okay to have a conservative coach, it works. No need to take it personally.

Brock has one of the top YPA in the league. That isn't him just going against what Kyle wants on every play. It's him attacking down the field like Kyle wants. Kyle wants a guy who will take the shots down the field. Just doesn't mean 40 attempts a game.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on Nov 28, 2023 at 1:46 PM ]
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:43 PM
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.
pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

Passing attempts is a bit misleading. Dropbacks is a better stat to use for pass/run split.

Statistics can be misleading. Both Statistics and watching the game are equally important.
exactly, like how we rush more to close out games.. which by the end of the game totals to have more rush atts vs pass
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:50 PM
Pass att 309
Rush Att 336

Pass att avgpg 28
Rush att avgpg 30

an overwhelming run philosophy
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:51 PM
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.
pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

Passing attempts is a bit misleading. Dropbacks is a better stat to use for pass/run split.

Statistics can be misleading. Both Statistics and watching the game are equally important.

Yes. You need context as well. Like I said in a post after this one you quoted. There are so many variables it will make your head spin.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Nov 28, 2023 at 1:51 PM ]
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:52 PM
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.
pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

Passing attempts is a bit misleading. Dropbacks is a better stat to use for pass/run split.

Statistics can be misleading. Both Statistics and watching the game are equally important.
exactly, like how we rush more to close out games.. which by the end of the game totals to have more rush atts vs pass

Yup. That is one of many many many variables.
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:59 PM
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Going in to week 12, Brock Purdy is ranked as the #1 QB in these categories:

  • QBR
  • NFL
  • Y/A
  • AY/A
  • Y/C
  • NY/A
  • ANY/A
  • COMP%

He is #2 in TD%.

We're not talking "Top 5." We're not talking "Top 10."

We're talking #1. The best.

And, this is with pass pro performance that everyone agrees is pretty average.

Is there a precedent for this? I don't think so.

We'll see as the tape keeps rolling in. But so far, it's a historic performance.

Someone forgot to tell the NFL he's a system quarterback with a noodle arm.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/passing.htm

The narrative will continue if it rains Sunday and Brock doesn't play better than he did last time the 49ers were in really bad weather. And that's asking a lot. But a lot is what it will take to silence the critics.
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:04 PM
Originally posted by Alfienator:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Some people don't realize that's Charlie Woerner at the checkdown. Wideopen for a 1st down for sure but thinking it's a TD, they just don't know how slow Woerner is.

From jonnydel and JTO's breakdown of this play, we now know Aiyuk adjusted his route to Brock throwing him open, all within a nano second. Good s**t between Brock and Aiyuk
Nah, Brock was like Eff Kyle, BA I'm throwing you the ball for a touchdown. None of this playing it safe BS that Kyle wants.

Kyle doesn't want "play it safe." That's a Jimmy Club narrative. It is baseless. What Kyle wants is the correct read every time—including deep passes. He also wants his QB to be FEARLESS (he's said this over and over and over) and would prefer a gunslinger to someone who "the game is too big for," which he's also said over and over again. The Jimmysexuals perpetrated a myth that not only still echos here, it's THE VERY REASON so many East Coast media heads keep calling Purdy a system QB: none of these people are aware that GAROPPOLO was the reason the 49ers didn't throw down the field, NOT Shanahan. Everywhere Shanahan has been except the years Garoppolo was his QB, his offense has been one that was not afraid to attack down the field. Even HERE, when CJ or Brian or Nick were throwing, the offense was more down the field. Same with Trey. Jimmy is the reason for the "play it safe" offense.
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:06 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Alfienator:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Some people don't realize that's Charlie Woerner at the checkdown. Wideopen for a 1st down for sure but thinking it's a TD, they just don't know how slow Woerner is.

From jonnydel and JTO's breakdown of this play, we now know Aiyuk adjusted his route to Brock throwing him open, all within a nano second. Good s**t between Brock and Aiyuk
Nah, Brock was like Eff Kyle, BA I'm throwing you the ball for a touchdown. None of this playing it safe BS that Kyle wants.

This
Wrong. This:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Alfienator:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Some people don't realize that's Charlie Woerner at the checkdown. Wideopen for a 1st down for sure but thinking it's a TD, they just don't know how slow Woerner is.

From jonnydel and JTO's breakdown of this play, we now know Aiyuk adjusted his route to Brock throwing him open, all within a nano second. Good s**t between Brock and Aiyuk
Nah, Brock was like Eff Kyle, BA I'm throwing you the ball for a touchdown. None of this playing it safe BS that Kyle wants.

Kyle doesn't want "play it safe." That's a Jimmy Club narrative. It is baseless. What Kyle wants is the correct read every time—including deep passes. He also wants his QB to be FEARLESS (he's said this over and over and over) and would prefer a gunslinger to someone who "the game is too big for," which he's also said over and over again. The Jimmysexuals perpetrated a myth that not only still echos here, it's THE VERY REASON so many East Coast media heads keep calling Purdy a system QB: none of these people are aware that GAROPPOLO was the reason the 49ers didn't throw down the field, NOT Shanahan. Everywhere Shanahan has been except the years Garoppolo was his QB, his offense has been one that was not afraid to attack down the field. Even HERE, when CJ or Brian or Nick were throwing, the offense was more down the field. Same with Trey. Jimmy is the reason for the "play it safe" offense.
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:10 PM
  • All22
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,625
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

tired of the is it Brock or is it the system debate. It's both. System means coaching, playcalling, talent around, we are elite in all those respects. That helps Brock be who he is. obviously he has game, or the results would be whatever Trey Lance was doing

I have never in my life...including the Montana and Young years, seen so many layered throws

Sure Montana dominated with Slants and Young was a better Post thrower.....but Brock has very rare (from my perspective) accuracy and anticipation to throw layered passes.

Besides that.... I have not watched a ballgame in years that did not run some version of a timing offense.

System QB came into vogue in the 80s to explain what Montana was doing with the WCO. <snip>

Wasn't it more of a Run-N-Shoot thing?
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:11 PM
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Alfienator:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Some people don't realize that's Charlie Woerner at the checkdown. Wideopen for a 1st down for sure but thinking it's a TD, they just don't know how slow Woerner is.

From jonnydel and JTO's breakdown of this play, we now know Aiyuk adjusted his route to Brock throwing him open, all within a nano second. Good s**t between Brock and Aiyuk
Nah, Brock was like Eff Kyle, BA I'm throwing you the ball for a touchdown. None of this playing it safe BS that Kyle wants.

This
not this lol

in no way was he going against Kyle

It's not "against Kyle." Kyle put the damn play in himself lol. But Kyle literally said he couldn't believe he threw it and that he "held his breath." Said that the right read was the checkdown for 12 yards (which by every film analysis I've seen, is correct). But Purdy had the guts and the ability to knife that throw in there; it's what makes him special. Of course Kyle is happy about it, it was a great result, but it is absolutely not what Kyle would have chosen to do (if he himself were the QB on the field).

Where you and him are wrong is the implication that Kyle wants a "safe," conservative QB. That's incorrect. He does not want Jimmy. That's why he tried to get rid of him over and over again. He wants a gunslinger. What happened on this play is that Purdy made an absolutely god tier elite throw, and no one expected it. Yes, the smarter play was the check down, because it would have taken a god tier elite throw to get it to Aiyuk. The surprise here is how good Brock is, not that Brock took a chance. When you're that good, it's not taking a chance. It's taking what you want.

Regardless, my point is the throw was uber aggressive and worked because Brock was uber good. But that doesn't mean Kyle consistently wants a guy to pass up deep shots to take check downs. He definitely does NOT want that. If Jimmy is 1 on the scale of conservative versus aggressive and Brock is a 7, Shanahan would prefer a 6. But he's happen with the 7 because Brock is good enough to do it.
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