QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

This it's how it's a debate:
https://brickwallblitz.com/2017/03/26/the-2016-17-deep-ball-project-part-33/

16+:-Matt Ryan led the league in overall deep ball completions with 56.

20+:-Matt Ryan and Kirk Cousins tied for the most completions on 20+ passes with 35.

16+:-Matt Ryan led 2016 in overall completion percentage (61.5%)

20+:-Matt Ryan also led on throws of 20+ (53.8%).

16+:-Matt Ryan led the NFL in overall deep passing yards (1,647) and yards per game (102.9).

20+:-Kirk Cousins led everyone in downfield yards on 20+ throws (1,268) and yards per game (79.3).

As you can see here, literally THREE teams had more deep passing attempts than the 2016 Falcons. You know what that means? For one, Shanahan isn't conservative. For two, he DOESN'T run the West Coast Offense. This is an offense that uses runs to set up big passing plays. It's as much Air Coryell as WCO. It just uses WCO-style terminology.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

I had to look up the run/pass balance. Currently it's 336 to 309 with more runs than passes. That's pretty even in the run pass balance mixture. Tough to key on Kyle's run or pass tendencies with that kind of statistics.

Personally, one reason Kyle is so conservative is I think to preserve the health and stamina of his defense. Keep the offense on the field and rest the defense for the all important fourth quarter when the defense has to pass rush and shut the game down for the 49ers because they are usually ahead by the 3rd QTR.

Good stats, one thing.. if you are even run / pass, then you are heavy on the run. Most teams are passing more than running. Ranks are informative.

For instance, we rank 32nd in pass attempts

6th in rush attempts

so in that perspective, we are extreme run heavy, vs pass
that's the Kyle way

Agree, this is still a run heavy team - relatively speaking compared to the rest of the NFL. Miami is 15th in rushing attempts 2nd in run yardage, so in a sense, it's the Kyle Shanahan offense. Both Miami and 49ers still want those explosive plays, and go about it similarly (heavy run game, explosive passing game), whereas most of the rest of the NFL doesn't follow that and try to get it by other means (passing more etc.) To me that's very air coryell-ish. Strong run game and explosive long ball passing, it's just that with the addition of the outside zone run, you don't have to have that strong arm to get those explosive passing. You can get good YAC players and get basically the same result as an air Coryell offense.

Chargers rankings in pass attempts per season under Coryell:

5th
2nd
2nd
2nd
2nd
1st
1st
2nd

There is no similarity to what Kyle is doing.

The Cowboys in the 90s ran the Air Coryell system too. But they did what Kyle is doing, and used the run to set up deep passes. The narrative that Kyle runs a WCO is absurd. He has taken concepts and some terminology from it. But his style is much MUCH closer to Norv Turner than Bill Walsh.

EDIT: Of course, if you really want to see the classic head coach that Kyle emulates most with his calls, go watch the Denver Broncos from 1995 to about 2008. And not just play calls, also personnel usage, in terms of spread formations with 21 personnel. That's a Mike Shanahan invention, and a cornerstone of Kyle's offense. Also the thing about that that irks me is people thinking Mike Shanahan is a WCO guy. He's not really. We didn't run a true WCO with him as the coordinator. We ran a hybrid offense, mixing spread concepts, Alex Gibbs' offense, with some WCO concepts. But when Mike got to Denver, the spread and Gibbs' influences outpaced the WCO influences.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

you need to focus, and stop pretending that the atts tell the philosophy or anything you are trying to say.

you have to factor a lot of other things. Blowouts, efficiency , TOP. Etc

We're not a one dimensional team and the results prove that

I didn't say we're a one dimensional team, but I understand why you're trying to change the subject - because you're losing the debate. Kyle has been an OC or head coach for 16 years and has consistently ranked in the top 5-10 in rushing attempts and bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. And your argument now is that none of that data means anything? Just apologize and move on lol.

losing what debate ?

There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

The debate (thank you for admitting that you forgot lol) is whether Kyle is conservative or not. No better measure than run/pass splits. Your argument now (it's changed many times today) is that Kyle's offenses have a lot of rushing attempts relative to other teams because his teams are winning so many games in blowouts.

You're burying yourself at this point. No malice nor anything negative being attempted by me here. Don't even know what you're all bent out of shape for anyway. This is not a knock on Kyle, it's simply an acknowledgement of his philosophy and what he wants as a play caller and coach. For that to be successful, he needs an aggressive QB to push him out of his comfort zone and maximize the relatively few attempts that he gets as a passer. We 100% have that in Brock Purdy.

again.. There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

why on earth would we pass more in a blowout.. ridiculous.

plus your rush att take only adds up to 1 or two attempts a game, far from rush philosophy.

it's balanced philosophy always has been

Again, you can't say "balance" when he's ranked in the top 5-10 every year in rush attempts and in the bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. That is very skewed towards the run. This isn't the 1940's or 50's; teams today pass way more than they run. For example, the teams in the middle (ranked 16th and 17th) in pass attempts have 382 and 381 pass attempts. The teams ranked in the middle (16th and 17th) in rushing attempts have 294 and 292 rushing attempts. That's about 90 more passing attempts than rushing, for those teams in the middle of the pack. That would be considered "balanced." Versus the Niners who have 336 rushing attempts and 309 passing attempts; that is NOT balanced, it is VERY skewed towards the run. The only team even close to that type of skew is Baltimore with 390 rushing attempts and 342 passing attempts (they've played one more game than the Niners). Even the Browns, who are very run heavy team, have 367 rushing attempts and 391 passing attempts. No one would refer to their offense as "balanced."

Anyway, your explanation is you think Kyle's offenses are always blowing out the other opponent (and thus running the ball more), even though his career coaching record is 149-157 (97-111 as an assistant and 52-46 as a head coach). Sorry, your theory is very wrong and doesn't work.

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

you need to focus, and stop pretending that the atts tell the philosophy or anything you are trying to say.

you have to factor a lot of other things. Blowouts, efficiency , TOP. Etc

We're not a one dimensional team and the results prove that

I didn't say we're a one dimensional team, but I understand why you're trying to change the subject - because you're losing the debate. Kyle has been an OC or head coach for 16 years and has consistently ranked in the top 5-10 in rushing attempts and bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. And your argument now is that none of that data means anything? Just apologize and move on lol.

losing what debate ?

There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

The debate (thank you for admitting that you forgot lol) is whether Kyle is conservative or not. No better measure than run/pass splits. Your argument now (it's changed many times today) is that Kyle's offenses have a lot of rushing attempts relative to other teams because his teams are winning so many games in blowouts.

You're burying yourself at this point. No malice nor anything negative being attempted by me here. Don't even know what you're all bent out of shape for anyway. This is not a knock on Kyle, it's simply an acknowledgement of his philosophy and what he wants as a play caller and coach. For that to be successful, he needs an aggressive QB to push him out of his comfort zone and maximize the relatively few attempts that he gets as a passer. We 100% have that in Brock Purdy.

again.. There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

why on earth would we pass more in a blowout.. ridiculous.

plus your rush att take only adds up to 1 or two attempts a game, far from rush philosophy.

it's balanced philosophy always has been

Again, you can't say "balance" when he's ranked in the top 5-10 every year in rush attempts and in the bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. That is very skewed towards the run. This isn't the 1940's or 50's; teams today pass way more than they run. For example, the teams in the middle (ranked 16th and 17th) in pass attempts have 382 and 381 pass attempts. The teams ranked in the middle (16th and 17th) in rushing attempts have 294 and 292 rushing attempts. That's about 90 more passing attempts than rushing, for those teams in the middle of the pack. That would be considered "balanced." Versus the Niners who have 336 rushing attempts and 309 passing attempts; that is NOT balanced, it is VERY skewed towards the run. The only team even close to that type of skew is Baltimore with 390 rushing attempts and 342 passing attempts (they've played one more game than the Niners). Even the Browns, who are very run heavy team, have 367 rushing attempts and 391 passing attempts. No one would refer to their offense as "balanced."

Anyway, your explanation is you think Kyle's offenses are always blowing out the other opponent (and thus running the ball more), even though his career coaching record is 149-157 (97-111 as an assistant and 52-46 as a head coach). Sorry, your theory is very wrong and doesn't work.

In 2017 we were 2nd in pass attempts. We're simply that good. That's why we run so much. We're just. That. Good.

Also, for the record, we were 18th in pass attempts in 1994, 20th in 1989, but 15th in 1988 (when we were 10-6 and played in more close games) , 31st in 2012, and the Greatest Show on Turf, surely the most pass heavy offense of all time, was 19th in pass attempts in 199, when their average game was a two touchdown win, but somehow jumped clear up to 3rd in passing attempts in 2000, when a great deal of their games were closer or they were losing. How does a team go from 19th to 3rd in a single season? Because the 1999 team had a much better defense, resulting in blowouts, resulting in runs.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.

See post #36021. Overall as an OC and HC, Kyle has a losing record. So the theory that he's blowing everyone out and that's why he runs so much is false. In 2014 the Browns were 7-9. They ranked 6th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts. In 2018 the Niners were 4-12. They ranked 11th in rushing attempts and 20th in passing attempts. So despite all of that losing, he was still committed to running the ball. Yes, OF COURSE when teams are losing they are going to throw more than run. Hell that's true even when teams are winning, as most teams pass the ball more than they run (even good teams). Very few teams/coaches are as skewed towards the run as Kyle is. I'm stressing the word skewed and emphasizing RELATIVE TO the rest of the league.

Kyle wants to run the football and is as committed to it as any coach in the league. Only Harbaugh in Baltimore is even close and they have Lamar who is an elite running QB. Again, this is not a knock on Kyle.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

pass atts vs run atts doesn't show how the offenses worked or philosophy.

Ryan didn't win MVP on being carried by Run

12th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts "doesn't show an offense's philosophy?" You can't be serious right now. We're talking about Kyle. Focus.

you need to focus, and stop pretending that the atts tell the philosophy or anything you are trying to say.

you have to factor a lot of other things. Blowouts, efficiency , TOP. Etc

We're not a one dimensional team and the results prove that

I didn't say we're a one dimensional team, but I understand why you're trying to change the subject - because you're losing the debate. Kyle has been an OC or head coach for 16 years and has consistently ranked in the top 5-10 in rushing attempts and bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. And your argument now is that none of that data means anything? Just apologize and move on lol.

losing what debate ?

There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

The debate (thank you for admitting that you forgot lol) is whether Kyle is conservative or not. No better measure than run/pass splits. Your argument now (it's changed many times today) is that Kyle's offenses have a lot of rushing attempts relative to other teams because his teams are winning so many games in blowouts.

You're burying yourself at this point. No malice nor anything negative being attempted by me here. Don't even know what you're all bent out of shape for anyway. This is not a knock on Kyle, it's simply an acknowledgement of his philosophy and what he wants as a play caller and coach. For that to be successful, he needs an aggressive QB to push him out of his comfort zone and maximize the relatively few attempts that he gets as a passer. We 100% have that in Brock Purdy.

again.. There is no debate, Blowouts and winning games creates more Rush attempts than passing.

why on earth would we pass more in a blowout.. ridiculous.

plus your rush att take only adds up to 1 or two attempts a game, far from rush philosophy.

it's balanced philosophy always has been

Again, you can't say "balance" when he's ranked in the top 5-10 every year in rush attempts and in the bottom 5-10 in passing attempts. That is very skewed towards the run. This isn't the 1940's or 50's; teams today pass way more than they run. For example, the teams in the middle (ranked 16th and 17th) in pass attempts have 382 and 381 pass attempts. The teams ranked in the middle (16th and 17th) in rushing attempts have 294 and 292 rushing attempts. That's about 90 more passing attempts than rushing, for those teams in the middle of the pack. That would be considered "balanced." Versus the Niners who have 336 rushing attempts and 309 passing attempts; that is NOT balanced, it is VERY skewed towards the run. The only team even close to that type of skew is Baltimore with 390 rushing attempts and 342 passing attempts (they've played one more game than the Niners). Even the Browns, who are very run heavy team, have 367 rushing attempts and 391 passing attempts. No one would refer to their offense as "balanced."

Anyway, your explanation is you think Kyle's offenses are always blowing out the other opponent (and thus running the ball more), even though his career coaching record is 149-157 (97-111 as an assistant and 52-46 as a head coach). Sorry, your theory is very wrong and doesn't work.

In 2017 we were 2nd in pass attempts. We're simply that good. That's why we run so much. We're just. That. Good.

Also, for the record, we were 18th in pass attempts in 1994, 20th in 1989, but 15th in 1988 (when we were 10-6 and played in more close games) , 31st in 2012, and the Greatest Show on Turf, surely the most pass heavy offense of all time, was 19th in pass attempts in 199, when their average game was a two touchdown win, but somehow jumped clear up to 3rd in passing attempts in 2000, when a great deal of their games were closer or they were losing. How does a team go from 19th to 3rd in a single season? Because the 1999 team had a much better defense, resulting in blowouts, resulting in runs.

Are you and others trying to make the case that no coach has an "offensive philosophy" at all? And that the only thing dictating run/pass splits is the score of the game? If so, I'm out of this discussion as there is nothing further to discuss. That's about as elementary as it can get in terms of discussion about football. Not interested lol.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.

See post #36021. Overall as an OC and HC, Kyle has a losing record. So the theory that he's blowing everyone out and that's why he runs so much is false. In 2014 the Browns were 7-9. They ranked 6th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts. In 2018 the Niners were 4-12. They ranked 11th in rushing attempts and 20th in passing attempts. So despite all of that losing, he was still committed to running the ball. Yes, OF COURSE when teams are losing they are going to throw more than run. Hell that's true even when teams are winning, as most teams pass the ball more than they run (even good teams). Very few teams/coaches are as skewed towards the run as Kyle is. I'm stressing the word skewed and emphasizing RELATIVE TO the rest of the league.

Kyle wants to run the football and is as committed to it as any coach in the league. Only Harbaugh in Baltimore is even close and they have Lamar who is an elite running QB. Again, this is not a knock on Kyle.

Are you really going to bring his record as an OC into this? Thats crazy. Kyle has a career record of 66-52 including playoffs where he is 6-3.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

When he's top 5 in passing attempts he will be.

That said, "conservative" may not be a fair word. Kyle is aggressively conservative within the limited passing attempts he chooses to use.

He's about balance and efficiency and calculated shots.

There's nothing wrong with that but let's not act like this is some pass centric offense esp. by today's standards.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.

His balance is the same in the end whether we're winning or losing (rush/pass ratio). This is his formula and I'm unsure why there still are a few who won't accept that. This is who he is...as a head coach.

Originally posted by NCommand:
When he's top 5 in passing attempts he will be.

That said, "conservative" may not be a fair word. Kyle is aggressively conservative within the limited passing attempts he chooses to use.

He's about balance and efficiency and calculated shots.

There's nothing wrong with that but let's not act like this is some pass centric offense esp. by today's standards.

Npbody has suggested it is. But he's doesn't want a conservative passing offense. He never has.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.

See post #36021. Overall as an OC and HC, Kyle has a losing record. So the theory that he's blowing everyone out and that's why he runs so much is false.

First of all, let me stop you here. The consequent DOES NOT FOLLOW from the antecedent. It is entirely possible to lose a lot early on and then blow out teams so badly you end up with more running than you should have had. Second, the OC is not the one with final decision on how the team will call plays.

In 2014 the Browns were 7-9. They ranked 6th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts.

And their QB was Jonny Manziel and Brian Hoyer. Score is not the only thing that dictates play-calling.

In 2018 the Niners were 4-12. They ranked 11th in rushing attempts and 20th in passing attempts. So despite all of that losing, he was still committed to running the ball.

Half of the losses were by one score, and several we either had a lead or were within one score in the 4th.

Yes, OF COURSE when teams are losing they are going to throw more than run. Hell that's true even when teams are winning, as most teams pass the ball more than they run (even good teams). Very few teams/coaches are as skewed towards the run as Kyle is. I'm stressing the word skewed and emphasizing RELATIVE TO the rest of the league.

Teams with at least 7 wins:
Dolphins
Cowboys
49ers
Eagles
Chiefs
Ravens
Jaguars
Steelers
Browns
Lions

Teams with at least 7 wins who rank 15th and below in pass attempts (15th, 14th, 13th, ..., 1st):
Cowboys
Chiefs
Browns
Lions

Of the 10 teams with at least 7 wins, only 4 pass the ball more than the median. Why?

Kyle wants to run the football and is as committed to it as any coach in the league. Only Harbaugh in Baltimore is even close and they have Lamar who is an elite running QB. Again, this is not a knock on Kyle.

Again, there is a difference between not abandoning the run and being conservative. If Kyle was conservative, he'd be more like Jim Harbaugh: run the ball and throw SHORT. He is clearly NOT doing that now, and the only time he EVER did that was when Jimmy was his QB.