QB Brock Purdy Thread

This argument has gone far afield.

While Purdy isn't against such layups, he'd much rather throw the half-court alley-oop for a final exclamation point if given the opportunity. Which is why, instead of throwing where Shanahan expected, Purdy let a long pass fly well before receiver Brandon Aiyuk reached a final target point amid four Seattle defenders.

"I couldn't believe he was throwing it," Shanahan said. "We're all holding our breath as soon as he lets it go."

As it turned out, Purdy's pass had the perfect amount of touch, as he dropped it over a defender and between three others just as Aiyuk arrived. Aiyuk hauled it in, took on a defender and spun into the end zone for the game-sealing 28-yard touchdown.

"He does that pretty consistently," Shanahan said of Purdy. "Very rarely does he check it down and you tell him he missed the deep one. He looks at it that way. He proved to us while the ball was in the air it was the right decision."

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

For real. Why are we equating pass attempts to how aggressive an offense is? Such an odd correlation.

Because in general, passing is more aggressive than running the football due to the higher probability for turnovers, negative yardage, etc.

I'm looking at the total number of pass attempts for the current season and by your metric, the Commanders have the most aggressive offense in the league. That doesn't seem right to me.

So I guess the Ravens are the most conservative and the eagles are more conservative than us

You'll note they both have major run threats at QB
Brock has some pocket moxie, but he's not a high volume QB run threat

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
You have moved the goal post. Run vs pass balance is NOT the indicator of conservative vs aggressive. The 1999 Rams were 19th in pass attempts. The 2000 Rams were 3rd. Both were EXTREMELY aggressive, maybe the most aggressive offense that has ever existed. AIR YARDS is how you determine how aggressive an offense is. The Greatest Show on Turf threw the ball DOWN THE FIELD. They were WAY more aggressive, than say, the 1981 and 1982 49ers. Yet the 1981 and 1982 49ers threw the ball 9th most and 1st most, respectively. Throwing isn't what's aggressive. Throwing DOWN THE FIELD is what's aggressive.

Kyle's aggressiveness is DIRECTLY—nay, almost EXACTLY—tied to his quarterback. When Jimmy was the QB, we didn't throw down the field. With Brock as the QB, we throw down the field. When Matt Ryan was his QB, he threw down the field.

But what the former Jimmysexuals keep missing is that when Jimmy was the QB, DEEP ROUTES WERE CONSTANTLY CALLED. They just weren't CHOSEN by the quarterback. To explain this, the former Jimmysexuals claimed Kyle told Jimmy not to throw to the open man down the field—an absolutely ridiculous proposition, which strangely STILL is claimed today every once in a while, even though Brock thoroughly disproved that nonsense.

I can agree with last two paragraphs, but not the first.

Tying aggressiveness to air yards is not a sound argument.
The reason Rams were called the greatest show on turf wasn't because of how well they threw downfield, it was overall offensive prowess and ability to generate yards and points at a near-historic rate.

Offenses can be and are aggressive without necessarily throwing the ball a lot traveling in the air. Perhaps the biggest comeback in playoff history was generated without throwing much air yards. Only two of a lot of Brady's passes were over twenty yards. Not twenty yards in the air, twenty yards period.

That's with Patriots needing to score a TD on pretty much every drive they were on, and score them fast. And there isn't anyone in the world who would call patriots on those drives "conservative" or not aggressive (well, I hope at least there is no one in their right mind).

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
There is no right or wrong IF the result is positive. Just imagine that Purdy threw an INT on that pass to Aiyuk; do you think Kyle would say it was the "correct" read? Hell no. Kyle was very clear if you just listen and don't have a bias - the right read (for our conservative coach) was the checkdown because it was wide open, we had the lead, it would have moved the chains, it was safe.

Kyle is a conservative minded head coach, weird that you and a few others keep trying to make it sound like he wants to air it out down the field like the 90's Oilers.

Not being Mike Martz doesn't make him conservative. He does want to push the ball down the field in the pass game. What he doesn't want to do is have his QB throw down the field into coverage. I guarantee in film study when he sees what Brock sees instead of just quickly watching from the sideline he will be happy with the decision.

Just like in 2016, if you give him a QB he can trust he will tell him to let it rip.

Kyle's offenses are routinely in the top 5 in rush attempts per game/season. Even in 2016 with the Falcons (Ryan MVP) they were 12th. He wants to run the ball and play defense. That is the definition of "conservative" in football terms. How is this even a debate?

Again, He's happy with the decision because it worked. It's not what's in his "blood" as a coach. It just isn't and never will be. Luckily for us we have the perfect complement for Kyle, a QB with a gunslinger mentality. They are a perfect pair.

Edit: In 2016, the Falcons were 26th in pass attempts. Not exactly "letting it rip" lol.

Bingo. That's as conservative as you'll get in today's passing league.

I remember so many thinking we'd become this pass centric team once we got rid of Jimmy. Haha.

Nope.

Yeah no. Matt Ryan in 2016 had exactly THREE NFL QBs attempt more deep passes than him. Just because it's run heavy doesn't mean it's conservative. The runs set up deep passes. As shown in my previous post, which is what the Falcons did in 2016, and it's what we've done this year, and did with Trey, and did more with Nick, Brian and CJ, but didn't do nearly as much with Jimmy. Due to Jimmy.

And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

We have the fewest passing attempts because the score of our games averages out to a just under a two touchdown win. In 2017, when we were losing a lot, we had the 2nd most pass attempts.

See post #36021. Overall as an OC and HC, Kyle has a losing record. So the theory that he's blowing everyone out and that's why he runs so much is false. In 2014 the Browns were 7-9. They ranked 6th in rushing attempts and 26th in passing attempts. In 2018 the Niners were 4-12. They ranked 11th in rushing attempts and 20th in passing attempts. So despite all of that losing, he was still committed to running the ball. Yes, OF COURSE when teams are losing they are going to throw more than run. Hell that's true even when teams are winning, as most teams pass the ball more than they run (even good teams). Very few teams/coaches are as skewed towards the run as Kyle is. I'm stressing the word skewed and emphasizing RELATIVE TO the rest of the league.

Kyle wants to run the football and is as committed to it as any coach in the league. Only Harbaugh in Baltimore is even close and they have Lamar who is an elite running QB. Again, this is not a knock on Kyle.

Are you really going to bring his record as an OC into this? Thats crazy. Kyle has a career record of 66-52 including playoffs where he is 6-3.

Well I was being told by multiple posters that play calling is not dictated by offensive philosophy, only by the score of the game. So yes his record (and scores of those games) is relevant if THAT is the point. Although the argument keeps changing so it might be time for me to check out for a bit.

That's stupid. No other coach's record includes their coordinator record. That's just a dumb way to skew the stats to fit a narrative.

Hey, this just in guys. Kyle has already won a championship… as a ball boy.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

For real. Why are we equating pass attempts to how aggressive an offense is? Such an odd correlation.

Because in general, passing is more aggressive than running the football due to the higher probability for turnovers, negative yardage, etc.

I'm looking at the total number of pass attempts for the current season and by your metric, the Commanders have the most aggressive offense in the league. That doesn't seem right to me.

Hence me saying "in general." Of course game situation plays into the run/pass splits, but it's not the only variable that determines those splits. Each coach/play caller has an identity and philosophy that they find ideal. And with over 15 years of play calling in the NFL, it's pretty clear that Kyle wants to run the ball and control the clock. Even our pace is slow as we only average 60.5 plays per game which is 25th in the NFL. That is also a measure of how conservative a coach is (in my opinion anyway).

So now the number of plays is an indicator of how aggressive an offense is? I disagree so much because so many things affect how many plays an offense runs. There is no stat that measures how aggressive an offense is.

What does the offense try to do in certain game situations - that's how you can tell if the offense is aggressive. I mentioned a couple situations above. 3rd & 12, is the QB throwing a dinky checkdown/screen, or is he asked to take a 7 step drop and throw past the sticks? The answer to that question tells us so much more about an offense as opposed to number of plays, or number of passes.

Oh and:

Q. Reaction to Brock's touchdown pass, a little fist pump. What was your emotion watching that throw?

KYLE SHANAHAN: I couldn't believe he was throwing it. The zone coverages, guys were so deep, which usually you can check it down right underneath them, get about 12 (yards). Brock thought he could drop it over the guy. A clear view for all of us. It was just a hell of a throw. Perfect touch. Got (it) over, I think it was Diggs. It was a big play that sealed it.

Q. Guts to make that throw? What does it take?

KYLE SHANAHAN: He does that pretty consistently. He's always, always trying to get that one in. Very rarely does he check it down and you tell him he missed the deep one. He looks at it that way. Actually he proved to us while the ball was in the air it was the right decision.

Q. Did you think it was the wrong decision when he let it go?

KYLE SHANAHAN: Yeah, we're all holding our breath as soon as he lets it go. The guy was so deep. Brock has some touch, was able to throw it over him. We took the safety out of there with a route. Knew if he could get (the ball) over him, there's no one else left. He made the throw. I wouldn't have known it until he threw it. Once he threw it, it was obviously there.

tl,dr: KS thought it was the wrong decision (should've taken the check down) and knew immediately (when the ball was in the air) that he was wrong to think Purdy was wrong.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
This argument has gone far afield.

While Purdy isn't against such layups, he'd much rather throw the half-court alley-oop for a final exclamation point if given the opportunity. Which is why, instead of throwing where Shanahan expected, Purdy let a long pass fly well before receiver Brandon Aiyuk reached a final target point amid four Seattle defenders.

"I couldn't believe he was throwing it," Shanahan said. "We're all holding our breath as soon as he lets it go."

As it turned out, Purdy's pass had the perfect amount of touch, as he dropped it over a defender and between three others just as Aiyuk arrived. Aiyuk hauled it in, took on a defender and spun into the end zone for the game-sealing 28-yard touchdown.

"He does that pretty consistently," Shanahan said of Purdy. "Very rarely does he check it down and you tell him he missed the deep one. He looks at it that way. He proved to us while the ball was in the air it was the right decision."

100% and this is why he is our guy. Don't give a heck about what others are doing. And I have said Brandon is the guy and this is the ultimate Duo. They best get him signed in the off season.

Sunday is going to be awesome (until it isn't-knock on wood)

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

For real. Why are we equating pass attempts to how aggressive an offense is? Such an odd correlation.

Because in general, passing is more aggressive than running the football due to the higher probability for turnovers, negative yardage, etc.

I'm looking at the total number of pass attempts for the current season and by your metric, the Commanders have the most aggressive offense in the league. That doesn't seem right to me.

So I guess the Ravens are the most conservative and the eagles are more conservative than us

You'll note they both have major run threats at QB
Brock has some pocket moxie, but he's not a high volume QB run threat

Yeah I don't know why this has to be explained over and over lol.

Originally posted by thl408:
So now the number of plays is an indicator of how aggressive an offense is? I disagree so much because so many things affect how many plays an offense runs. There is no stat that measures how aggressive an offense is.

What does the offense try to do in certain game situations - that's how you can tell if the offense is aggressive. I mentioned a couple situations above. 3rd & 12, is the QB throwing a dinky checkdown/screen, or is he asked to take a 7 step drop and throw past the sticks? The answer to that question tells us so much more about an offense as opposed to number of plays, or number of passes.

Interjecting again, as I mentioned in my last post, I think it's possible to be an aggressive play caller in how you attack a defense and still be conservative in terms of clock management.

To me there's no argument that we aren't conservative in terms of clock management. Is that indicative of any kind of problem? Not to me, unless our defense is also going to struggle getting off the field (as was argued last week).

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

For real. Why are we equating pass attempts to how aggressive an offense is? Such an odd correlation.

Because in general, passing is more aggressive than running the football due to the higher probability for turnovers, negative yardage, etc.

I'm looking at the total number of pass attempts for the current season and by your metric, the Commanders have the most aggressive offense in the league. That doesn't seem right to me.

So I guess the Ravens are the most conservative and the eagles are more conservative than us

You'll note they both have major run threats at QB
Brock has some pocket moxie, but he's not a high volume QB run threat

Rush att is the base here, more rushing att equals conservative

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by thl408:
So now the number of plays is an indicator of how aggressive an offense is? I disagree so much because so many things affect how many plays an offense runs. There is no stat that measures how aggressive an offense is.

What does the offense try to do in certain game situations - that's how you can tell if the offense is aggressive. I mentioned a couple situations above. 3rd & 12, is the QB throwing a dinky checkdown/screen, or is he asked to take a 7 step drop and throw past the sticks? The answer to that question tells us so much more about an offense as opposed to number of plays, or number of passes.

Interjecting again, as I mentioned in my last post, I think it's possible to be an aggressive play caller in how you attack a defense and still be conservative in terms of clock management.

To me there's no argument that we aren't conservative in terms of clock management. Is that indicative of any kind of problem? Not to me, unless our defense is also going to struggle getting off the field (as was argued last week).

Nice to see the defense consistently getting off the field against SEA.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And? Nobody is saying you can't be hyper efficient (like Brock) within the lowest passing attempts in a passing league. Which by virtue is a conservative offense.

So if Kyle eliminated 10 runs for screens and swing passes suddenly the offense is more aggressive?

For real. Why are we equating pass attempts to how aggressive an offense is? Such an odd correlation.

Because in general, passing is more aggressive than running the football due to the higher probability for turnovers, negative yardage, etc.

I'm looking at the total number of pass attempts for the current season and by your metric, the Commanders have the most aggressive offense in the league. That doesn't seem right to me.

So I guess the Ravens are the most conservative and the eagles are more conservative than us

You'll note they both have major run threats at QB
Brock has some pocket moxie, but he's not a high volume QB run threat

I would say Brock is more like Russell Wilson. Using his Athleticism not to run, but to scramble around till he finds someone to throw it to.

Originally posted by Chance:
Nice to see the defense consistently getting off the field against SEA.

They crushed and we had a s**tload of opportunities on offense. Had a whole quarter where we hit a funk and were still able to sleepwalk to 30 points.

Originally posted by thl408:
An aggressive offense is one that tries to convert a 3rd & 12, and I don't mean throw a WR bubble screen hoping the defense misses a bunch of tackles. An aggressive offense goes for it on 4th and 5 at midfield. Goes for the touchdown on 3rd and goal from the 10 yard line, and not dial up a conservative play call and settle for a field goal. Look at critical game situations, and what that offense does to determine whether it's aggressive or conservative.

But if we want to look at stats, I do think that Average Depth of Target is meaningful to know how the QB is operating the passing attack. So what if a QB throws a bunch of passes that travel 6 yards downfield instead of running the ball - that's not an indicator of aggressiveness.

Been saying this for years, yet it was met by constant disagreement from the Jimmy fan club.

Originally posted by thl408:
An aggressive offense is one that tries to convert a 3rd & 12, and I don't mean throw a WR bubble screen hoping the defense misses a bunch of tackles. An aggressive offense goes for it on 4th and 5 at midfield. Goes for the touchdown on 3rd and goal from the 10 yard line, and not dial up a conservative play call and settle for a field goal. Look at critical game situations, and what that offense does to determine whether it's aggressive or conservative.

But if we want to look at stats, I do think that Average Depth of Target is meaningful to know how the QB is operating the passing attack. So what if a QB throws a bunch of passes that travel 6 yards downfield instead of running the ball - that's not an indicator of aggressiveness.

This I can agree with, for sure